Frustrated with the Oki printers looking for a better system.

4035 Views 21 Replies 7 Participants Last post by dandelionroots, Jul 14, 2018

dandelionroots

Discussion Starter · Jul 5, 2018

i've done alot of vinyl stuff and then decided to buy the oki 8432.. i am not pleased with this system as the quality sucks.. sooo that being said i'm wanting a system that provides graphic capabilities that vinyl doesn't but that also provides quality.. some issues i had with the oki was that it was very inconsistent. the hand feel felt like plastic even with the rip software. should i go DTG or is there something out there that's better?

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kostasfmx

· #2 · Jul 5, 2018

dandelionroots said:
i've done alot of vinyl stuff and then decided to buy the oki 8432.. i am not pleased with this system as the quality sucks.. sooo that being said i'm wanting a system that provides graphic capabilities that vinyl doesn't but that also provides quality.. some issues i had with the oki was that it was very inconsistent. the hand feel felt like plastic even with the rip software. should i go DTG or is there something out there that's better?

DtG have good quality but cost a lot of money and also have a lot of maintenance!
This machines must work every day to avoid serious issues !
I believe the best option is to invest your money to a screen printing equipment and also make 2-3 screen printing courses!
Screen printing have top quality ,a top soft hand in black T--shirt and the equipment cost it less as a DTG!
You can apply also screen printing to almost everything (t--shirt ,posters )
I was in the same boat with you and after a lot of research a decided to go with screen printing!
My quest was also quality and soft feeling black T--shirts

TABOB

· #3 · Jul 6, 2018

dandelionroots said:
i've done alot of vinyl stuff and then decided to buy the oki 8432.. i am not pleased with this system as the quality sucks.. sooo that being said i'm wanting a system that provides graphic capabilities that vinyl doesn't but that also provides quality.. some issues i had with the oki was that it was very inconsistent. the hand feel felt like plastic even with the rip software. should i go DTG or is there something out there that's better?

Nothing wrong with OKI... or the laser transfer papers. Their purpose is to imitate plastisol, and they do this well. However, just like with everything else, skill is what makes the difference. I use them to test prototypes which I then reproduce with plastisol. The results in terms of appearance and feel are very similar. The only big difference is durability.

@kostasfmx
screen-printing is the best, but it is not for one offs, which is what most people who do vinyl want.

Screen-printing is not necessarily soft-hand.

In terms of durability, DTG is inferior to screen-printing and Vinyl. Some transfer are actually more durable than DTG.
The only way to produce durable DTG is to screen-print the white or transparent base, and then print over it.

dandelionroots

Discussion Starter · #4 · Jul 6, 2018

the images themselves look great that isn't my issue.. my issue is if the image isn't seperated or if its a solid image it feels like plastic which i know screenprinting has its own feel but its better than this. i am using forever laser dark .. maybe its a paper issue? i have read numerous people not happy with this system and the durability is awful.

paradigmprint

· #5 · Jul 6, 2018

dandelionroots said:
the images themselves look great that isn't my issue.. my issue is if the image isn't seperated or if its a solid image it feels like plastic which i know screenprinting has its own feel but its better than this. i am using forever laser dark .. maybe its a paper issue? i have read numerous people not happy with this system and the durability is awful.

I've been using Forever Laser (and Joto as well) for about four years .... have done thousands of shirts with no issue/complaints from any customers (with many repeats).

You don't mention it so I'm assuming you're not using a Rip software to print? Without that, and particularly on larger / full prints, the feel can be very plastic and they will crack. With the Rip software (I personally use ForeverRip), you'll find a much softer hand and durability that will start to rival screen prints.

I always let customers know that the niche we offer is the ability to do low quantity prints for them. DTG is a nightmare if you're not using it "all the time" and screen printing, of course, is cost prohibitive for low quantities.

There'll always be trade-offs in any system ............. but before throwing in the towel, try some RIP software.

dandelionroots

Discussion Starter · #6 · Jul 6, 2018

@paradigmprint what oki printer are you using? i do have the rip software and i have got a couple to seem pretty decent with that but others even with the rip software feel like plastic with a more solid image. lettering on the shirt feel fine other than if it is stretched just a little bit then it cracks. when i compare it to a flex or stretch vinyl there is no comparison the vinyl has better quality where that is concerned. even ordered some transfers that were plastol and those were awesome with no issues. i don't know much about those because some were more of a digital print with a white backing and on another post i posted someone said it was a solvent based ink with a plastol backing. i don't know much about solvent ink printers and what the quality is like . i just know i paid 7500 for this printer system and for the money the quality isn't that great. i don't want to offer something that looks good but that i don't feel will hold up or bring people back is my dilemma.

EricDeem

· #7 · Jul 6, 2018

TABOB said:
The only way to produce durable DTG is to screen-print the white or transparent base, and then print over it.

I disagree completely with that statement. As stated with the Oki, its all about skill level and knowledge. I have DTG prints that look just about as good as they did fresh off the printer with hundreds of washes. Unlike vinyl or plastisol, DTG inks require the structure of the fibers to maintain intact. In most cases, with todays inks and pretreat, the shirt breaks down and the fibers end up not supporting the ink. Quality garments can make a HUGE difference in the longevity of a DTG print.

TABOB

· #8 · Jul 6, 2018

EricDeem said:
I disagree completely with that statement. As stated with the Oki, its all about skill level and knowledge. I have DTG prints that look just about as good as they did fresh off the printer with hundreds of washes. Unlike vinyl or plastisol, DTG inks require the structure of the fibers to maintain intact. In most cases, with todays inks and pretreat, the shirt breaks down and the fibers end up not supporting the ink. Quality garments can make a HUGE difference in the longevity of a DTG print.

Hundreds of washes? Come on now...We all know this is impossible. Part of the problem with DTG is actually the pretreatment, but yes, you are right...better fabrics produce more durable results.

TABOB

· #9 · Jul 6, 2018

dandelionroots said:
the images themselves look great that isn't my issue.. my issue is if the image isn't seperated or if its a solid image it feels like plastic which i know screenprinting has its own feel but its better than this. i am using forever laser dark .. maybe its a paper issue? i have read numerous people not happy with this system and the durability is awful.

What this is telling me, is that you are doing it wrong.
If you do it right, not many people would know that you've used a laser transfer. These laser transfers are almost like plastisol, and you can make them feel softer using the same methods. No special software required. I do it all manually.

dandelionroots

Discussion Starter · #10 · Jul 6, 2018

TABOB said:
What this is telling me, is that you are doing it wrong.
If you do it right, not many people would know that you've used a laser transfer. These laser transfers are almost like plastisol, and you can make them feel softer using the same methods. No special software required. I do it all manually.

so how is it i'm doing it wrong? what would you suggest to make it better?

kostasfmx

· #11 · Jul 6, 2018

TABOB said:
dandelionroots said:

the images themselves look great that isn't my issue.. my issue is if the image isn't seperated or if its a solid image it feels like plastic which i know screenprinting has its own feel but its better than this. i am using forever laser dark .. maybe its a paper issue? i have read numerous people not happy with this system and the durability is awful.

Click to expand...

What this is telling me, is that you are doing it wrong.
If you do it right, not many people would know that you've used a laser transfer. These laser transfers are almost like plastisol, and you can make them feel softer using the same methods. No special software required. I do it all manually.

I also find interesting what you said especially that can feel like plastisol and you do it manually?
How can this done?

TABOB

· #12 · Jul 7, 2018

dandelionroots said:
so how is it i'm doing it wrong? what would you suggest to make it better?

Just like plastisol... a solid layer will feel plastic, because it is plastic.
Using halftones is the only way to make it softer.

paradigmprint

· #13 · Jul 8, 2018

dandelionroots said:
@paradigmprint what oki printer are you using? i do have the rip software and i have got a couple to seem pretty decent with that but others even with the rip software feel like plastic with a more solid image. lettering on the shirt feel fine other than if it is stretched just a little bit then it cracks. when i compare it to a flex or stretch vinyl there is no comparison the vinyl has better quality where that is concerned. even ordered some transfers that were plastol and those were awesome with no issues. i don't know much about those because some were more of a digital print with a white backing and on another post i posted someone said it was a solvent based ink with a plastol backing. i don't know much about solvent ink printers and what the quality is like . i just know i paid 7500 for this printer system and for the money the quality isn't that great. i don't want to offer something that looks good but that i don't feel will hold up or bring people back is my dilemma.

I have an OKI 920WT that I've been using for better than 4 years now....have completed well in excess of $110,000 in (primarily) shirt sales and, so far, have had "one" customer complaint about durability. That was using Neenah Image Clip light and it's obvious that he washed the shirts in very hot water since all eight of them suffered the same result - nearly fully washed off).

Other than that ..... I have many repeat business customers, youth groups, and have an Etsy store. "0" complaints as to hand or durability.

For "new" business customers, one thing I always show them up front is a dark shirt that's been washed 10 times and the inevitable cracking that'll take place. The best response from that I've had (and I've mentioned this before on here) was "if someone is standing close enough to me to see that, they better be buying me dinner."

I think sometimes that "we" (the printer) are way overcritical of what we do. If we're honest with customers up front - and we're pricing our product correctly - there's no real issue.

(By the way, I've tried about every paper that I've been able to come across including Forever, Magic Touch, Joto-Paropy, Neenah, along with a couple out of Asia and one from Great Britain (can't remember their names. I always end up migrating back to Forever Low Temp with the ForeverRip process (though the Joto-Paropy paper isn't very far off).

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dandelionroots

Discussion Starter · #14 · Jul 10, 2018

paradigmprint said:
I have an OKI 920WT that I've been using for better than 4 years now....have completed well in excess of $110,000 in (primarily) shirt sales and, so far, have had "one" customer complaint about durability. That was using Neenah Image Clip light and it's obvious that he washed the shirts in very hot water since all eight of them suffered the same result - nearly fully washed off).

Other than that ..... I have many repeat business customers, youth groups, and have an Etsy store. "0" complaints as to hand or durability.

For "new" business customers, one thing I always show them up front is a dark shirt that's been washed 10 times and the inevitable cracking that'll take place. The best response from that I've had (and I've mentioned this before on here) was "if someone is standing close enough to me to see that, they better be buying me dinner."

I think sometimes that "we" (the printer) are way overcritical of what we do. If we're honest with customers up front - and we're pricing our product correctly - there's no real issue.

(By the way, I've tried about every paper that I've been able to come across including Forever, Magic Touch, Joto-Paropy, Neenah, along with a couple out of Asia and one from Great Britain (can't remember their names. I always end up migrating back to Forever Low Temp with the ForeverRip process (though the Joto-Paropy paper isn't very far off).

i may be a bit critical just because i want to deliver quality product over just printing something and getting money for it. i was looking into paropy paper.. i have read though that alot of the older oki before the 8432 print alot better than this one that i have. so that being said i don't know if it is just the printer i'm using and something may not be right or what. maybe i will get some other paper and try that.

dandelionroots

Discussion Starter · #15 · Jul 10, 2018

TABOB said:
Just like plastisol... a solid layer will feel plastic, because it is plastic.
Using halftones is the only way to make it softer.

i'm not a screen printer but isn't this what my forever rip software does?

TABOB

· #16 · Jul 10, 2018

dandelionroots said:
i'm not a screen printer but isn't this what my forever rip software does?

It can do... but if you are doing it that way, you souldn't have a problem. Unless of course you expect it to feel like discharge, or water-based ink. It cannot do this.

dandelionroots

Discussion Starter · #17 · Jul 10, 2018

i know what screen printing feels and looks like and i messed around with one color prints but i decided to go this route... it just hasn't been what i thought it would be i guess.. i've read others with the new 8432 not happy as well so it could be the printer. i just need to do some more research of what the exact set up i want to do is. i know some have said eco solvent printers and others use dtg printers. i'm sure all have their challenges just this (or how i'm doing it) didn't meet the expectations i was hoping for .

dandelionroots

Discussion Starter · #18 · Jul 10, 2018

TABOB said:
It can do... but if you are doing it that way, you souldn't have a problem. Unless of course you expect it to feel like discharge, or water-based ink. It cannot do this.

i haven't on some prints and some i have even with the rip software especially for solid images that you don't want to put lines or circles all the way through the design.

TABOB

· #19 · Jul 11, 2018

dandelionroots said:
i haven't on some prints and some i have even with the rip software especially for solid images that you don't want to put lines or circles all the way through the design.

That's the limit of the product.

bwdesigns

· #20 · Jul 14, 2018

Joe, when you say the Joto isn't far off the Forever, is this the new Paropy? I just received my sample, anxious to give it a try.

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