[Kelly535]

I need some advice on printing this design. This will be my first attempt at printing more than 1 color design. I will be printing this on both black and grey shirts. Could someone please give me a quick run down on the order I should do this in? Do I need to do a white underbase?

Thanks!!

 

[beanie357]

Underbase for the black would be my choice. Ash gray maybe not depending on the ink . Any other gray darker probably an underbase. But if you are doing 100% poly or 50/50 I'd put a low bleed white down on the darker grays just because you can. I hate suprises.
I'd have a flash somewhere in there if I did an underbase of course.
I see a couple of ways of sequencing depending on the ink.
small to large. light to dark might be a good choice with that center spoke wheel looking object. I think the tricks used on the art side of the equation to make the films might need to be considered in your sequencing as well.

 

[Kelly535]

What kind of tricks on the art side are you talking about? I made the artwork (client provided the design) so I can easily tweak it if it should be.

We do the whole process ourselves so any tips would be wonderful!!

 

[beanie357]

Traps, chokes. Are you trying to do a butt print (colors meet but don't overlap), wow inks, process, what's the screen tension, etc. all have a bearing. Most places get a sequence that works for them and run with it until something weird pop ups.

I would use this as a test model and personally try different sequences and methods and see what you get. A lot of questions get answered in our plant that way, and also points out a bunch of stuff we never even thought about. We buy seconds from distributors to keep arouns for real life test bed garments.

We usually choke an underbase unless we are trapping the top inks, then we do an underbase that looks more solid like our DTG underbases. Wow inks can overlap more without messing up it seems than others. A second flash if not using wow inks might be helpful. We are just ain't good enough to butt print flames and not have slivers of the underbase or garment peek through, so we do other fixes. Maybe we all need new glasses. hee hee

 

[Kelly535]

Hmmm, I'm not sure I understood all of that, but let me try. On the flames when I made it I extended the yellow so it is overlapping under the red. I also extended the red farther into the black tire where it connects. Does that cover it?

Reminder: I'm very much a newbie at all of this!!

What size screen should I use?

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[beanie357]

yep. "Trapping" is slightly running over the under ink to "trap" it. (probably poor wording, but I'm not a wordsmith)
If you know your art, then that sets your sequence, as the "trapped" color has to under the 'Trapper"

Butt of course is trying to get the colors to be exactly meeting at the points they run together.

Screen size is dictated by the screen size you have or can use. We go by leave 2 inches from the tape to the image on the well side, and use a squeegee at least an inch bigger on each side. Sort of a rule of thumb is od -6 to 9 inches = easy stencil size.

After a while, you can just kinda look at stuff and figure what you need to be done with it (pun intended). Thrift store-bags of cheap shirts-practice. It does wonders.

 

[Preston]

yep. "Trapping" is slightly running over the under ink to "trap" it. (probably poor wording, but I'm not a wordsmith)
If you know your art, then that sets your sequence, as the "trapped" color has to under the 'Trapper"

Butt of course is trying to get the colors to be exactly meeting at the points they run together.

If I have said it once I have said it a million times. Trapping is a band-aid for loose screens, sloppy press or the inability to register a print and in my opinion trapping should never be used. If you have to trap then you either need better screens, better equipment, more practice or get out of the business.

 

[beanie357]

Preston has valid points. They are a goal to strive for.

Sometimes, with the huge amount of variables a new user needs to address monetarily and process wise, a few work arounds are a handy fallback, allowing the new person to move along until they can manage the money and the processes required to reach the ability to knock out extremely good product on a regular basis.

Technically, I am sure more experienced printers than I (just about everyone) might have a few instances some of these workarounds are handy, or perhaps not. In this biz, you can always learn.

 

[Kelly535]

If I have said it once I have said it a million times. Trapping is a band-aid for loose screens, sloppy press or the inability to register a print and in my opinion trapping should never be used. If you have to trap then you either need better screens, better equipment, more practice or get out of the business.

In my case PRACTICE is what I need!!


I didn't word my previous post right. I wasn't asking what size of screen to use, but what mesh count (I think that's right) should I use. I know the more detail needs higher count. What I don't know is if you consider this artwork to have detail or not.

Basically I am asking if anyone could help me and give me a "bare bone" quick run down of how they would screen print this. Such as which order to do colors and mesh count for screens...
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[Preston]

Preston has valid points. They are a goal to strive for.

Sometimes, with the huge amount of variables a new user needs to address monetarily and process wise, a few work arounds are a handy fallback, allowing the new person to move along until they can manage the money and the processes required to reach the ability to knock out extremely good product on a regular basis.

I understand what you are saying Beanie and Kelly but the reason I stress this so much is to hopefully drill it into your heads that it is a temporary band-aid and not something to utilize all the time.

 

[TYGERON]

I believe one absolute is that there are no absolutes, particularly in screen printing.
Perfection should always be strived for.
There are many elements that have to go together to make any print job work. And they all can be controlled to varying degrees.
But even the most ideal, perfect scenarios have the potential to go awry during a print run and I believe that sometimes it's adviseable to take steps to lessen the likelihood of awryness (LOL).
Trapping can be one of those steps. Knowing how to do it and when it can be effectively and appropriately used to ensure and optimize production is the key.

 

[Preston]

I believe one absolute is that there are no absolutes, particularly in screen printing.
Perfection should always be strived for.
There are many elements that have to go together to make any print job work. And they all can be controlled to varying degrees.
But even the most ideal, perfect scenarios have the potential to go awry during a print run and I believe that sometimes it's adviseable to take steps to lessen the likelihood of awryness (LOL).
Trapping can be one of those steps. Knowing how to do it and when it can be effectively and appropriately used to ensure and optimize production is the key.

True to some extent but when would trapping ever help if something went awry during a print run? And what would that something be? Could it be the press cannot hold registration? Could it be the screens are sloppy? Could it be you start with a pull stroke and then during the print run decide to swap to a push stroke? I would like to know what could go wrong during a print run that would make someone trap in advance just in case because I have never had anything like that happen in all my years of printing so I have never had to prepare for it by trapping.

 

[TYGERON]

True to some extent but when would trapping ever help if something went awry during a print run? And what would that something be? Could it be the press cannot hold registration? Could it be the screens are sloppy? Could it be you start with a pull stroke and then during the print run decide to swap to a push stroke? I would like to know what could go wrong during a print run that would make someone trap in advance just in case because I have never had anything like that happen in all my years of printing so I have never had to prepare for it by trapping.

You just answered your questions with the questions you posed. It could be any one of what you mentioned.

And earlier you said: "Trapping is a band-aid for loose screens, sloppy press or the inability to register a print and in my opinion trapping should never be used. If you have to trap then you either need better screens, better equipment, more practice or get out of the business.

There are printers who print with looser than recommended screens. Printers who have inexpensive, less than perfect or "sloppy" presses. Printers who for what ever reason have registration issues. For example: Could be less than stable vellum that shrinks in a laser printer. Yes that could be addressed by preshrinking the paper or going inkjet or...trapping.
I can say whether or not any of the above should be, but that's of no consequence because such situations do exist.

And you should be commended for never having had less than optimum scenarios, less than perfect equipment and having the knowledge and skill to have avoided issues that could, for a number of folk, be "band-aided" by trapping. And especially considering the longevity you've accrued.

And the opinion that "trapping should never be used."

That opinion like all opinions is fine and all good.

As such there are folk who agree as well as disagree.

IMAGES - THE JOURNAL FOR TEXTILE SCREENPRINTING ,EMBROIDERY, PROMOTIONAL CLOTHING AND GARMENT DECORATION

(And he says, "To compensate for the deficiencies of the process")

Hey, I believe that "spell check" is a band-aid for unwillingness to take time to look up a word to be sure and a growing inability to spell. And in my opinion it should never be used...well at least not alone. Well, maybe only as an extra check...or a starting point.

 

[Preston]

You just answered your questions with the questions you posed. It could be any one of what you mentioned.

And earlier you said: "Trapping is a band-aid for loose screens, sloppy press or the inability to register a print and in my opinion trapping should never be used. If you have to trap then you either need better screens, better equipment, more practice or get out of the business.

There are printers who print with looser than recommended screens. Printers who have inexpensive, less than perfect or "sloppy" presses. Printers who for what ever reason have registration issues. For example: Could be less than stable vellum that shrinks in a laser printer. Yes that could be addressed by preshrinking the paper or going inkjet or...trapping.
I can say whether or not any of the above should be, but that's of no consequence because such situations do exist.

And you should be commended for never having had less than optimum scenarios, less than perfect equipment and having the knowledge and skill to have avoided issues that could, for a number of folk, be "band-aided" by trapping. And especially considering the longevity you've accrued.

And the opinion that "trapping should never be used."

That opinion like all opinions fine and all good.

As such there are a number of folk who agree as well as disagree.

Hey, I believe that "spell check" is a band-aid for unwillingness to take time to look up a word to be sure and a growing inability to spell. And in my opinion it should never be used...well at least not alone. Well, maybe only as an extra check.

Funny and you got me on the spelling but I do not do spelling for a living. I print. And spell check is a tool, not a band-aid.

So all the reasons one should trap in advance are to band-aid a problem that can be fixed before hand. I understand why people trap. I also understand that they should not keep doing it just to keep from fixing the real problem. Find the problem, fix it in the future so you do not need to trap. If you realize that trapping is a band-aid and only use it until you learn and figure out how not to use it then your print quality will go through the roof. Not just because you no longer trap but you took the time to realize why you where trapping and worked towards and learned how to eliminating it.

 

[TYGERON]

Funny and you got me on the spelling but I do not do spelling for a living. I print for a living and I'm required to spell everyday as an integral part of that living. And I only trust "technology" to a certain point...LOL! I print. And spell check is a tool, not a band-aid. Problem is that a seeming growing number of people use it as one.

So all the reasons one should trap in advance are to band-aid a problem that can be fixed before hand. No, not all. Yes. Proactive preparation. I get it. But are you implying that you've never had a problem fixed beforehand, at some point unfix? Never?? I understand why people trap. I also understand that they should not keep doing it just to keep from fixing the real problem. I agree. If trapping is done because of a fixable problem, then fix the problem. I get it and agree. BUTT (pun intended) trapping doesn't have to be compensation for or a remedy to an existing problem. Find the problem, fix it in the future so you do not need to trap. If you realize that trapping is a band-aid and only use it until you learn and figure out how not to use it then your print quality will go through the roof. Not just because you no longer trap but you took the time to realize why you where trapping and worked towards and learned how to eliminating it.

Sage words. And we're on one accord. If there's a problem, don't short cut it...ultimately fix it if or until you can. End of problem. Gotcha.

But I still stand by the notion that the most well laid plans and all the preparation in the world don't always result in consistently perfect and flawless print runs. There are too many possible variables that can possibly go wrong that can be lessened by simply trapping. Trapping doesn't have to suggest nor imply ineptness, lack of skill. And it doesn't necessarily impede production and if done properly it doesn't have to reduce print quality. And I'm not by any stetch advocating doing it all the time. But I can't totally dismiss it as something to avoid at all costs. Work towards not having to do it. I butt register a lot. Successfully. Sometimes I don't do it. Multicolor nylon for example. Flashing makes it move. Yes the hold-down, the off contact, the pre-flashing, the critical temperature monitoring, the proper ink to minimize flash times, print stroke, speed, angle, squeegee durometer, screen tension, mesh count, press calibration...

But I'm gonna trap if for no other reason than one extra element to lessen the likelihood of registration issues.

 

[TableSyrup]

<< - - Now Accepting Bets ! !

Ding Ding

 

[beanie357]

Well, I take 50 on ty.
Thing is poor chap didn't get his question answered, and now I am too scared to!

Ah the heck with it.

I'll start.

1st is white underbase
2nd is (someone else fill in the blank)

ya gotta love this forum.

 

[TableSyrup]

I agree that anything worth doing is worth doing right... and I hate cliche's too but really....

I would take a shot at butting everything. Choke your base by a pixel or two, but butt the rest. But butt? butt butt? anyway....

If it doesn't turn out, you tried, and if you can't spend the time to perfect at the moment, then trap.
At least you tried, and for now you can still get (likely) an acceptable print and continue learning.

Not everyone can be perfect or print perfect on the first shot. doesn't mean you shouldn't do it.

I get GREAT white on black prints with a band-aid. P/F/P

Would it be nice to get it in one shot? Sure would. And I will, but for now I'm getting great prints and I'm working on getting to one hit.

 

[ScreenFoo]

As to the original question--I'd at least choke your underbase a point or so--white usually spreads if you're underbasing.

If you are using a less than optimal exposure set up, you may want to trap the overprints a point anyway--a long exposure as well as poor positive contact will tend to choke your art slightly on screen.

 

[TYGERON]

Well, I take 50 on ty.

See there ya'll go trying to start a hot mess...LOL!

I agree with what Preston said. The context just had to be clarified and concessions have to be made for the fact that everyone doesn't have facility for the most ideal of printing situations and as such compensations are often made. If you have a single platen and a free screen set up (no print arms), or Yudu type, trap for more than one color. If you have a cheap press that doesn't hold registration well, trap. Laser vellum kinda inconsistent, then trap. It would be easy to say, "get a decent press and an inkjet." May not be an option. You may have the perfect set up on all accounts and tons of skill and knowledge and an issue comes up that you really don't have time to diagnose and remedy. Trapping may be appropriate. I had a job (which I trapped...just because LOL!)
Had a spring break. Registration slipped but not enough that the trap didn't save me having to remove the screen, replace the spring, re-set
up and register that screen. Rare occasion but makes my point. You never know.

Now if you're having issues and your platens aren't level, press isn't calibrated, screens are warped, off contact is jacked etc. and you're trapping to keep from having to remedy what is remedyable, then go ahead and remedy the problem.

And bottom line...better to know how to trap and not need to than to need to and not know how. Just another tool in the knowledge arsenal.