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Discussion Starter #41
There is always something new to learn from you Sacman. Love the idea of the lab jack, btw thanks for taking time out and replying on these forums, good luck with the upcoming deadline.

I've posted a picture along with this message of a small component I found around the front of the printer. Could this be the PE sensor?

And thanks for your earlier message regarding ASF, I think I get how that works now, will probably find some more complex stuff underneath once I take it apart lol.
 

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That does look like it might be the PE sensor. Do you have the service manual? If you do you should have a list of what connectors connect where on the main board. If you trace that FFC (flat flexible cable) back to the board and find out what it is called CN1,CN2 etc and compare to the service manual it will tell you more. That is the first one I've seen at the front of the printer but it does make a certain amount of sense to be located there. This is another possible question for Marty since I am pretty
well convinced this is the same as his smaller conversion.

My WF30 has some similarities as well. Now I'm going to have to look at the service manual and see where the PE sensor is on mine. I didn't really pay attention before simply assuming it was a physical switch like on my R230.

You can probably find the service manual but it might take a while. I had to search for a long time to find one for the WF30 but I found the one for my R230 very quickly. Don't forget to look for the American version of your printer. Odds are that you will have more luck finding it that way.
 

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Discussion Starter #43
i tried hunting the service manual, could not find it anywhere. It looks similar to martys because they are both xp models, martys is xp 30 and my one is xp-215. It looks the same as the US model xp-200.

I opened up the 'assumed PE sensor' was nothing underneath it, the plastic was actually covering it from the bottom too so it has no way of detecting paper underneath or something, the only form of sensing I can see is the two little led bulbs at the top, so I'm not sure how they would detect paper going beneath them.

Going to buy some wood tomorrow! and then screw it all off, will let you know how I get on, just doing the math to calculate size for the wood frames now.
 

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Are you sure about the paper routing? In other words, are you sure the paper routes under that sensor and not over it? I can't quite tell from the image.

My R230 has the same kind of sensor in the print head that detects Paper Width for borderless printing. I found out the hard way that if I choose borderless on my printer things break. This is not what your sensor is dong but I can see where it might be for the paper edge. Was there another sensor in the back that is 'U' shaped with a lever that pivots to go between the 'U'? This is how many of the Epson printers detect the paper. The paper actually pushes that lever into the optical sensor (the "U" shaped bit). If there is no other sensor then this must be the PE sensor.

I just spent about 30 minutes trolling for the manual. 2manuals.com has it but you have to pay for it. I personally would if for no other reason than peace of mind. I bought the service adjustment program for my R230 through them.

Take a look: Epson XP-100, XP-101, XP-102, XP-103, XP-104, XP-200, XP-201, XP-202, XP-203, XP-204, XP-205, XP-207, XP-211, XP-212, XP-214, XP-215, XP-300, XP-302, XP-303, XP-305, XP-306, XP-310, XP-312, XP-313, XP-315, XP-400, XP-401, XP-402, XP-403, XP-405, XP-4
 

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Hi, I will take my case off the XP30 and take some photos of the machine later.
Regards Marty

Sent from my HTC Desire X using T-Shirt Forums
 

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Discussion Starter #46
Paper definitely goes underneath the led bulbs. Thanks for taking your time out to look for the service manual, I bought it right away lol

According to their picture the PE sensor and PE Lever is at the rear, I've attached a picture so you can check it out. I think I understand how it works....when paper is pushed underneath the lever gets pulled away from the sensor which tells the printer paper is in position, when paper finishes the lever drops back into the sensor marking the end of the paper, is that correct? I'd probably just redesign it with a long rod vertical which can be pushed back to manual engage/disengage PE sensor.

First I have to go find some FFC cables as the current one is too short from PF sensor to main board. They are becoming a nightmare to find as its a small 4 component one.
 

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I've been meaning to post these pictures for a while. These are from the underside of the tray on my Chinese printer.

The first is a picture of the PE Sensor. The one on the right is for the Paper Edge. The other two have something to do with the tray movement so ignore those.

The second picture shows the metal fins on the bottom of the tray.

The way it works is that the fin is solid at the front of the tray, has a long space cut out in the middle and is solid again at the rear of the tray. When the printer is in the ready mode, the fin is in the sensor. When the print job is sent, the tray moves forward until the front piece of the fin leaves the PE sensor. This is effectively what you printer is doing in that the PE sensor is now un-blocked. This gap is the length of an A4 piece of paper. The tray does its back and forth just like it does with a piece of paper to get the leading edge just at the start point. Then it starts printing. As it prints, the long gap in the fin is not breaking the sensor.

At the end of the job, the tray is ejected like the paper, the rear part of the fin moves into the sensor again and the tray stops.

Those other two fins allow me to press the feed and return buttons and the tray will move to either end and stop automatically.

This is a much cleaner method than using the existing lever method. I have seen a lot of posts and videos where people struggle with this part of the build. If you can find a way to incorporate this with your build it could save you a lot of grief.

Marty, you should try this as well.






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Discussion Starter #49
Thanks for the pics, will definitely have to work something around the PE sensor.

Picture 9 shows what the two led bulb things are, something to do with PIS board Assy / Sensor, no idea what they do though.

Unsurprisingly I've come across a new problem. Picture 8 shows most of the parts which I am going to explain now. Basically you stated I can get rid of the ASF mechanism but I tried doing a print today and it just wouldn't pull the paper in.

Behind the rear tray where the paper normally stands vertical (I think its called a 'hopper') there is a spring which pushed the bottom part of the tray forward onto the 'paper back lever'. This in turn locks the 'cam' in place and allows the 'LD roller assy' to do a full turn and pull paper in. However seen as I have removed the hopper there is nothing locking the 'paper back lever' and the whole 'cam' and 'change lever' just spin freely and in turn don't spin the 'LD roller assy'. I obviously want to get rid of that otherwise I cant make it into a flat bed.

I've tried placing the paper right next to the PE sensor, this results in the paper being pulled but thrown straight out with no print. I've also tried placing the paper past the PE sensor so it already detects paper before printing and again same result.

How do I work around this? Is there some sort of distance the PF roller should turn before the PE sensor is engaged? Only assuming that as on martys new build he has a groove of about 10cm cut before the PE sensor triggers.

Sorry about the long message but I really want to get rid of that ASF but afraid the printer won't work without it. Although I do want to keep the waste ink pump.

Thanks in advance.
 

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The ASF is needed for paper. However, you won't be using paper :)

If it is spitting the paper out without print, there is a sensor or timing error somewhere. It's looking for a signal it can't find. I just searched everywhere for what a PIS sensor is and got nothing.

If your manual has a operations section, it will describe the sequence of events that occurs to print. Some manuals have this and some don't. More than likely the PF motor has to turn to engage or disengage the clutch. There is no sensor in the clutch but I'm sure there is a certain number of encoder pulses that it looks for before it moves to the next stage. Knowing what that timing is will be critical. I have read a lot of posts about people hand triggering the PE sensor and getting it to work 1 out 10 times. This is why.
 

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Discussion Starter #51
You are literally building this for me step by step lol.

I thought it might have something to do with a certain number or turns before the paper hits the PE sensor. Looks like ill have to adopt martys groove cut style to dictate a certain length in which certain number of turns are completed.

Going to open it all up today and build the frame. I'm going to get rid of the following: paper back lever, cam, change lever, LD roller assy and any other gears on left except the pump. Lets see how it goes...
 

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You are literally building this for me step by step lol.

I thought it might have something to do with a certain number or turns before the paper hits the PE sensor. Looks like ill have to adopt martys groove cut style to dictate a certain length in which certain number of turns are completed.

Going to open it all up today and build the frame. I'm going to get rid of the following: paper back lever, cam, change lever, LD roller assy and any other gears on left except the pump. Lets see how it goes...
Hi,
sorry for the late reply, it has taken a little longer for me to recover from my operation on my ribs and we have just had a bereavement in the family.

Firstly, you can not move the PE sensor due to the way a A4 printer is constructed, its part of the main board.

Secondly, I think that the sensor on the front is to check that the paper as exited the printer and will have to be refitted because the printer firmware will be checking to make sure it functional at start up checks by the firmware.

Thirdly, you must make sure that you totally understand the way the printer works and what it expects to find at start up. You have the added disadvantage of having the scanner as part of the printer which will need to be present when the firmware does its start up checks. All I can advise is that you do not cut any thing away until you are satisfied it is no longer required and by removing it it will not affect the running of the printer.
I have taken a few photos of my build using the XP30 for you to take a look at, I hope this helps you.
Regards Marty
 

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The ASF is needed for paper. However, you won't be using paper :)

If it is spitting the paper out without print, there is a sensor or timing error somewhere. It's looking for a signal it can't find. I just searched everywhere for what a PIS sensor is and got nothing.

If your manual has a operations section, it will describe the sequence of events that occurs to print. Some manuals have this and some don't. More than likely the PF motor has to turn to engage or disengage the clutch. There is no sensor in the clutch but I'm sure there is a certain number of encoder pulses that it looks for before it moves to the next stage. Knowing what that timing is will be critical. I have read a lot of posts about people hand triggering the PE sensor and getting it to work 1 out 10 times. This is why.
Hi,
I think you are getting confused with the PE sensor, on a A4 printer the PE is built in to the main board. On a A3 the PE sensor is a separate unit which can be removed and positioned some where else, This is the one that can be manually trigged. The PF motor dosnt engage a clutch, it is either direct drive or via belt directly to the shaft. If the paper is being ejected without print it is normally because there is insufficient pressure on the PE switch/sensor to trigger the sensor which remains active as long as there is something under it to break the contact in the switch. Hard too explain, but if you think of it has being an on off switch rather than a sensor.
Regards Marty
 

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Discussion Starter #54
Good to hear from you marty,

hope your feeling better after your operation and sorry to hear about the bereavement. thanks for taking time out to reply, appreciate it.

I did actually want the scanner and wifi capability within my to make it bit more multifunctional. I actually did a test print without the scanner wire connected to main frame, it printed without any problems, was showing flashing lights on paper and ink but oh well still printed lol

I think when I'm done mine would end up looking exactly the same as yours (providing I don't mess it up). I have the same PE sensor you have on your xp30 model. Are you triggering the switch through the height of the print? I.e. the next level of wood that you place the t-shirt on the top of that would hit the PE switch to activate and when it leaves deactivate it?

Please correct me if I'm wrong but from what you mentioned about pressure on PE sensor this is what I gathered....When I sent a print job the printer pulled in the paper and carried on pulling it until the paper finished, it then tried to pull more paper which there wasn't any in the tray. So are you saying that the PE sensor didnt come back far enough away from the main board to tell the system that paper is actually under there? If thats so then I should be able to modify that easily by raising the height of print plank so it really pulls that PE sensor back.

Thanks.
 

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Good to hear from you marty,

hope your feeling better after your operation and sorry to hear about the bereavement. thanks for taking time out to reply, appreciate it.

I did actually want the scanner and wifi capability within my to make it bit more multifunctional. I actually did a test print without the scanner wire connected to main frame, it printed without any problems, was showing flashing lights on paper and ink but oh well still printed lol

I think when I'm done mine would end up looking exactly the same as yours (providing I don't mess it up). I have the same PE sensor you have on your xp30 model. Are you triggering the switch through the height of the print? I.e. the next level of wood that you place the t-shirt on the top of that would hit the PE switch to activate and when it leaves deactivate it?

Please correct me if I'm wrong but from what you mentioned about pressure on PE sensor this is what I gathered....When I sent a print job the printer pulled in the paper and carried on pulling it until the paper finished, it then tried to pull more paper which there wasn't any in the tray. So are you saying that the PE sensor didnt come back far enough away from the main board to tell the system that paper is actually under there? If thats so then I should be able to modify that easily by raising the height of print plank so it really pulls that PE sensor back.

Thanks.
Hi, yes that is correct if you look at the main-board you will see a small black block either side of the if the pe switch. When it pulls a sheet of paper through the pe switch will clear these blocks and print.
When using this type of printer as a flat bed the platen/print plank activates the switch. If you look at picture No1 of my S22 build you can see it in action http://www.t-shirtforums.com/diy-dtg/t178486-6.html
Regards Marty
 

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Discussion Starter #56
brill! thanks for the pictures marty, that was exactly what I had in mind. I'm at the stage of fixing PF roller to the base wood now, expecting delivery of drawer track Fri so should be in final assembly position around the weekend. Will keep you posted how it goes...
 

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Discussion Starter #57
hey guys, sorry about the long delay in getting back,

well I had a few other things going on hence didnt have any time at all to work on the printer. I've now spent about 2 days trying to piece it together...

having major issues with actually getting the motor to move the bed as it rotates. If I rotate the shaft with my hand it works fine from start to end, but obviously the motor doesn't quite have the same power I do.

So I tested it with a 5v power supply...it rolls the shaft fine without the bed on top, but as soon as the bed it placed on top its on stand still....

Do you guys thing the power from the printer would be more then 5v? If so would that help with actually pushing the bed forward...or is there another way to make this work easily as it took forever just to line up the drawertrack/bed in line with the PF shaft.

Thanks.
 

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The power supplied to the motor through the main board is 42V. This has been true on the 3 Epsons that I have read the manual on so it is probably true on yours as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #59
great thanks for that, hopefully that should do the trick

im going to just go ahead and slice up the printer now, hope it works. hows your wf30 project going sacman?
 

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I had a couple of weeks where nothing happened. I had a small SciFi convention I did last weekend and the lead up to it had me printing 6 to 8 hours a day for about 2 weeks straight. And that on top of my real job!

So the last two days we have been back at it. Yesterday we got the outer shell off and got a scope on the motor and PE cables. we were able to tell within a very tight time frame when the paper is seen after the motor starts turning (890 ms). This is one of the most critical parts. Luckily the WF30 doesn't have a PW sensor or an APG motor assembly so it only looks for the single sensor.

Today we finished the tear down and cut the plastic casing. After re-assembling, we found one section that will require a little more cutting. The metal parts of the frame on the WF30 are super flimsy so getting it all back together in the now modified casing was a relief. The structural support is still there and the bulk of the printer still looks whole so when it is mounted on top of the new frame it will still look good.

Another nice thing is that every single component comes out of the casing easily so when we cut it, nothing was damaged that could cause problems later.

One thing we noticed is that although the pump is driven directly through a spur gear from the PF roller just like Marty's, unlike Marty's the pump is an integral part of the capping station. There is no easy way to separate them short of cutting it off. So we are left with 3 options. 1 is to find a timing belt that will fit to drive it (challenging without knowing the pitch of the teeth on the spur gear). 2 is to cut the pump off and remount it (not a very easy place to cut). 3 is to drive it independently (requires tracing signals to know when to drive the new motor). Don't know where we end up here. I have a timing belt from my spare R230. I'm going to see if it fits. I am leaning towards cutting the pump off but I'm worried about where and how to cut it and whether it could easily be remounted.

Need to order a few components like a lab jack and some bearings but most of the next stage is on my partner. He is the mechanical guy. I know what it needs to do and look like but he is the one with the CNC and the know how to make things go together. We have a MakerBot 2x 3D printer at work that has an aluminum sub frame and expanded PVC walls. My partner happens to have a lot of expanded PVC at his shop so we are toying with the idea of using this for the whole frame assembly. It is very strong, very lightweight and machines extremely well on the CNC. And because it will be CNC cut instead of hand cut, we can tongue and groove the joints to make them line up nicely and fit securely. We will also probably use the same material for the main drive tray to keep the weight down. I am excited about the next stage but it might be a week or so before we make more progress. He is currently adding a plasma cutter to his CNC for a paying job so this project takes a back seat.

I'll post with the next major update.

Wade
 
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