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DTG Kiosk 3, Viper, had texjet for some time, couple of DIY ones :)

I tested Resolute and one different off brand low TO2 ink and gelling is almost instant. But I always use pretreat machine so I can get just the right amount of ink to not to puddle and get propper coverage.

But your right it its hard to do one pass with Dupont. But this trade is about Epson and their going to have their own ink so there is a good posibility that it will work propperly with it.
 

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Which DTG machine are you currently using? I can tell you that I have several, and on some models we actually let the white ink layer SIT before the CMYK layer is laid down.... This is the only way to give the Dupont ink enough time to gel, IF you are pouring enough white on the shirt to achieve the quality that we expect in my shop. On the Neoflex, it takes 20 minutes for the CMYK layer to come across, which allows us to print without delay or additional gel time.

A one inch gap isn't gonna cut it in my opinion - at least, without a major shift in chemical formulation, it will never get the crisp vibrant quality that we are able to achieve with proper gel time.
Did I read your post correctly? 0n your Neoflex you wait 20 minutes after printing white before you print CMYK?
 

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This thread is about
"Epson DTG printer hits the market and what does it mean for Epson based printers?"
IMHO is not much to Epson modifiers.
It will effects more to Brother, Anajet and extend to low end Kornit.
Epson is a Giant, Giant can over power decent size but too big to catch smalls. Smalls are fast and find opening well to survive. This is nature :) No one can against the nature. Storm break big trees but never grasses.
But does Brother and Anajet is decent size for Epson? This is interesting point.:). Maybe Brother but I am not sure on Anajet. IMHO.
If they are and ready to accept challenge, I foresee big changes are the must to against Tsunami.
So? Should we change the Title? LOL. IMHO. :)
Cheers! Beers are on me always.
 

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Did I read your post correctly? 0n your Neoflex you wait 20 minutes after printing white before you print CMYK?
Lol no - due to the fact that there are 3 shirts printed in a row (all 3 get a white layer, then the printer goes back for color layer), there is about 15-20 minutes from the time the white goes down on the first shirt to when the print head returns for the color layer.... This built in delay (even though the printer is still printing, each white layer has plenty of time to gel) allows us to get unmatched results in many cases.
 

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IMHO is not much to Epson modifiers.
It will effects more to Brother, Anajet and extend to low end Kornit.
Epson is a Giant, Giant can over power decent size but too big to catch smalls. Smalls are fast and find opening well to survive.
Peter,

Is this what you really think? How long did you spend at the 19th hole today? :D

If Epson has known for more than a year now they are going to release a dtg printer, do you think all the games / restrictions / price increases they have been playing with getting replacement parts is a totally unrelated subject?

In my opinion, Epson is looking at anything under $50,000 as competition. For years, they have had to deal with their equipment / parts being used for dye sublimation and dtg printing. In many cases, the users have been blaming their equipment for the printing problems. If Epson has their own brand of ink (which is what most of the post above are saying), why would they not want to try and eliminate any competitor that could possibly take away ink sales - which is where the money is at? Especially when the "smaller" competitors for the most part are using their R&D / technology. Not to mention that Epson has to compete against those dtg manufacturers that are using other print heads / components that are not Epson technology. I expect some of the "smalls" to either close shop or join the Epson team. In either case, the market is likely to consolidate.

Smalzstein, I don't think anyone that has a signed NDA is going to openly release information about the new printer. If they got an NDA, they are probably want to be a distributor and don't want to do anything to jeopardize that. Not to mention that Epson probably has a team of lawyers at their disposal.

The next several weeks will be very interesting as more information comes out about the printer.

Mark
 

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Peter,

Is this what you really think? How long did you spend at the 19th hole today? :D

If Epson has known for more than a year now they are going to release a dtg printer, do you think all the games / restrictions / price increases they have been playing with getting replacement parts is a totally unrelated subject?

In my opinion, Epson is looking at anything under $50,000 as competition. For years, they have had to deal with their equipment / parts being used for dye sublimation and dtg printing. In many cases, the users have been blaming their equipment for the printing problems. If Epson has their own brand of ink (which is what most of the post above are saying), why would they not want to try and eliminate any competitor that could possibly take away ink sales - which is where the money is at? Especially when the "smaller" competitors for the most part are using their R&D / technology. Not to mention that Epson has to compete against those dtg manufacturers that are using other print heads / components that are not Epson technology. I expect some of the "smalls" to either close shop or join the Epson team. In either case, the market is likely to consolidate.

Smalzstein, I don't think anyone that has a signed NDA is going to openly release information about the new printer. If they got an NDA, they are probably want to be a distributor and don't want to do anything to jeopardize that. Not to mention that Epson probably has a team of lawyers at their disposal.

The next several weeks will be very interesting as more information comes out about the printer.

Mark
Mark,
Thanks for describe my IMHO was a beer talk.:) but it was not, i am more wondering your thinking base without 19th hole. I feel worry that you are right in the middle of soon be a tornado.
Again, i am so sure Epson understand nature flow.
Make OEM parts are nature. Look into all the car parts. Did you see GM get upset? All they do is keep upgrading.
If there are demand, supply will be followed is 100%.
Force anything to stop is against nature never worked in history.
Anyone can stop the river? Dam? Need openings not to break.
Drugs? Make some legal to use in hospital. Endless~

Let's say parts OEMs is available to Epson printer
Users will be happy to buy Epson because they know they can get OEM parts at lower price. Instead of stuck with only one source who can charge much as they want.(Exam: Printhead $2000).This will drive More printers will sell. This is positive to Epson while majorities are insist to buy genuine parts only. As same as we often see at super market, same contents but different packages. Do you think MFGs are crazy while displayed next to next? I am sure they are the super smart marketing people. They make money in both end is the answer.
AA buys 40' containers of 4880 at a time. Why are they selling to AA while they know AA is using their technology? Do you get it now? Do you ever heard anyone having problem with purchase Epson printers?

If you look in deep OEM ink also applies same.
If end user buys Epson genuine ink great! If not still profit was made. Also DTG purpose printer numbers are nothing to them.

Used Machine market is must exist to sell New Machines(you mentioned above post). No one can stop this. If anyone tries this he/she will be a loser in short time. Used car the same.
Nature~, winner makes loser vice versa. Anything goes up it will come down. You gain some? Then there are someone lost.
This is why patent has to expire.
Maybe you need few beers to look into what is NATURE is? Lol.
Did you ever see Lion is go after mouse? If you did, did Lion catch it? While pusyy cat can. pusyy cat shouldn't be around Lion. Lol. Again Nature~
While modifiers are smaller by the portion.
I will stick with my IMHO. I know I am pretty close.:)
Consolidate? I try hard but can't see it so far. Maybe few will hurt.
Cheers! Beers are on me always.
 

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Mark I think thats impossible for Epson for technological stand point to fight off brand inks and printer modifications. If that would be possible they would do that long time ago.

The only thing they can do is legal machinations.

Here in Poland it looks like that:

If you are Epson distributor and sell of brand inks or parts, you are denied parts support (and that thats to some kind of a legal hole in the EU law, because Epson operates on an open distributor market, so if you quallify as a resseler then legall they cannot deny you equipment purchase)

Second are direct legal actions. There was a huge trial here Epson and HP versus ink distributors (pigment).
Still Epson could not deny after market inks sales, the only thing that get this trail trough was the notion that inks comapnies had copied the design of their ink cart. So Epson won the trial, and the ink comanies start buying used carts and filling them with their own ink. So there was a second trail and this time Epson lost.
 

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It is not just legal thing. It is money thing first. Lots of people think hardware does not have profit in it "Ink is only thing making money" is wrong. They are Charging it High ink price because they can. As same as Brother does on DTG. But there are Exception (desk tops, small tiny formats). No pros will modify this is the first and second is they change model so quick. Look 4880. Still manufacturing after 5 years.
Think this way. Someone find $10, $20, $50 and $100 bills on street exactly 5.6,9,12 feet apart start from $10 bill and cars are coming and other people are around. Which one will you grab?
Take time and think.



Not $100 only, all. This is nature.
Many TSF members are questioning about After Service often. Why some companies are good while some are not. This also a very simple answer but many are not using Nature's eye. It is impossible to have Good Service when Machine is crapy. No matter how much Mfg want to service good (because service =Success). IT WON'T WORK to follow nature's rule. We often say "siht goes in shti comes out" right? I like street talk and street talk is real life while my Eng is lowest level in TSF.:) and I am not afraid to be a vocal.
Cheers! Have a productive day.
 

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You two guys are reading too much into my post. Peter stated who he thought Epson would consider competition. I never stated that Epson would shut down the modifiers using legal measures. I only said Epson would consider every company selling a dtg printer under $50,000 as competition. Thus, they would use their marketing dollars (which Peter has already described as being very large) to promote why a prospective dtg customer should consider their printer over a modifier's printer as well as Anajet, Brother and Kornit Breeze (or another low price Kornit printer). If they did come out with a better pretreat process, easier to use white ink or something else that would give their printer a competitive advantage, they are not going to use it against just Anajet, Brother and Kornit. It will be used against all the printers in the same price point that the prospective customer would be considering. A simple statement by an Epson distributors that Epson is going to make it harder (not impossible, but harder) to get replacement parts is going to make a prospective buyer think twice about buying a modified printer. Then the modifiers are going to have to increase their marketing efforts to counter the statements from the manufacturer of the technology it is using.

What is that going to look like from a prospective dtg customer that is new to the industry? That is why I said some of the modifiers would either go away, start using a different technology or start selling Epson's dtg printers. This is natural in business.

As I stated, the upcoming weeks will be interesting. I guess in 6 months to a year, we can revisit this thread and see where our guesses were right and where we were wrong.

Mark
 

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Mark,
Did you hear Epson parts shortage these days? I don't. While AA competitor's favorite bla bla for their sales pitch. Often I feel sad to see on they have to use untrue statement to sell theirs. Well, over all it is business but that is never can be AA's tactic. AA train all sales for this point. Use Fact only.
If there is survival race between Modifiers and $20000-$35000 guys. I won't hesitate bet on modifiers all day long.
Cheers! See you soon Mark.
 

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I think it is awesome that Epson is jumping into the marketplace. It validates what we have been doing and saying for nearly 9 years now. They will likely position themselves in the $20-25K range and offer the product to non-traditional resellers (non-textile resellers) and smaller VAR type resellers who have not been able to enter the marketplace due to insufficient capital to pick up a "brand".

As a seasoned direct to garment player in this marketplace I see this as only serving to generate more interest in the market as a whole - creating more opportunities for all of us. I'm guessing Epson is in for a surprise when they see the level of support and training involved with direct to garment printing.
 

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Don,
Excellent points.:)
There is job for Giant and need Tiny people for Horse race.
If Epson did not see thier printer will not do well on DTG they will never hop in. :)
Service and Training are essential and they will face them soon.
Cheers! Beers are on me always.
 

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As Dr Chase Roh is fond of saying " A rising tide floats all boats". This definitely has the potential to raise the tide.
 

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I think Peter knows more than he is telling us about EPSON.

That is why he is setting up more NEO Centers around
the USA and has the AEOON.:)
 

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you bang on about "service and training" most parts that will go wrong are not covered by any dtg manufacturers "service plans" a well put together and designed machine like a brother doesnt need it or much training for that matter, thats what im expecting from epson, new ink and a head designed for it, not the half assed dtg conversions you all do of desktop printers, so no i wouldnt expect there to be much more "service and training" than they provide for a desktop printer, as it wont need it because it will be designed for purpose, thats what im hoping for anyway.
 

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Then Steve read some about problems with white solvent inks in Epson printers. Watch EPSON training wideo on maintance. They are even more strict with it than most of the current DTG suppliers.

Inks pigmented with TO2 will always have problems. Some greater than other.

And the head thay Epson will use WILL NOT be designed specyfically for white ink.
 

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Then Steve read some about problems with white solvent inks in Epson printers. Watch EPSON training wideo on maintance. They are even more strict with it than most of the current DTG suppliers.

Inks pigmented with TO2 will always have problems. Some greater than other.

And the head thay Epson will use WILL NOT be designed specyfically for white ink.
if you have real information on what exactly epson are doing head wise then share it. One thing i do know from experience, the brother machine built from the ground upas a DTG requires little maintenance, surely epson with the huge budget could do something similar ? its the minimum im expecting.
 

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I am more excited to see them entering the machine side of the market than anything. Maybe it will shake things up for makers of current machines and push them for more improvements. It is natural in business for competition to bring about changes in the market (usually for the better) for the consumer.

I think the bigger question for the current printers out there will be what we would look at. Do you continue to purchase the machines you have been using for years since you know them inside and out or start switching possibly to this Epson machine, due to the possible advantages if any it has.

I am happy with having opened a DTG location, I will always be a screen printer at heart but at least I can sleep sound knowing that the market isn't a "fad".

As for ink goes, do you really think Dupont and Epson aren't holding hands on this one?
 
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