[RobJ4077]

Hello All,

I have been doing dye sub for about a year with a Ricoh 7700. I have the opportunity to buy an Epson 4880 for $600.

Just wondering what peoples opinions are of the two printers?

What are the goods and bads of the two compared to each other?

Is this a good deal? (The Epson has sawgrass dye sub ink in it, but one or two slots are empty, the seller says)

What should I look out for on the used 4880?

Are there any changes in the way I print, set up artwork, press, that I need to be aware of?

Any opinions and advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you,
Rob

 

[cleggy]

We've always had Epsons, both 4800 and 4880 usins sawgrass ink. Good point of the epson is that they can take rolls of paper, but thats about it. The bad points are poor colour reproduction. The 4880 doesnt tell you how much ink is left in the cartridge (the 4800 did). You will therefore waste ink replacing cartridges as its difficult to know which is empty. The epson is not built for sublimation so a sponge near the capping station can become clogged with cogeiled ink. This stops ink getting to the waste tank, and if you perform a power clean can mean the ink overflows into the printers circuitry (this has happened on 4 of our epson printers). There seems to be no method of cleaning the capping station and i wouldnt know what to clean it with (other roland printers we have come with instructions and special cleaning fluid, so its easy). The print heads always become blocked even after just one days inactivity, and its frustrating and wasteful trying to get the printing again.
We have now switched to the a3 Ricoh 7110sg and it prints faster, the colour match is better, and the heads dont dry up at all. We are well pleased we made the change.

 

[mgparrish]

We've always had Epsons, both 4800 and 4880 usins sawgrass ink. Good point of the epson is that they can take rolls of paper, but thats about it. The bad points are poor colour reproduction.

My 4880 is capable of outstanding color reproduction out of the box. Your issue would be the Sawgrass inks and the Power Driver if you are getting poor color reproduction. In it's native setup the 4880 has outstanding gamut and grayscale output so you shouldn't blame your printer, it's what you are putting in it.

The 4880 doesnt tell you how much ink is left in the cartridge (the 4800 did). You will therefore waste ink replacing cartridges as its difficult to know which is empty.

If you use clear carts then you look yourself to see what is remaining, even if Epson didn't lock out 3rd party inks and carts from monitoring ... Epson's ink monitoring is never accurate anyway. I have zero issues with knowing how much ink is left, the carts come out the front of the printer and you can easily see the remaining inks.

The epson is not built for sublimation so a sponge near the capping station can become clogged with cogeiled ink. This stops ink getting to the waste tank, and if you perform a power clean can mean the ink overflows into the printers circuitry (this has happened on 4 of our epson printers). There seems to be no method of cleaning the capping station and i wouldnt know what to clean it with (other roland printers we have come with instructions and special cleaning fluid, so its easy).

Not so ... many of us know how to clean the entire printer and this information is readily available from the main sublimation vendors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNlYR1SKONI

And all inkjet printers need capping station maintenance.

The print heads always become blocked even after just one days inactivity, and its frustrating and wasteful trying to get the printing again.
We have now switched to the a3 Ricoh 7110sg and it prints faster, the colour match is better, and the heads dont dry up at all.

Ricoh's heads don't dry up because the firmware allows a trickle amount of inks to be shot thru the heads on some preprogrammed basis. On an Epson you just need to run small color bar files or do nozzle checks. My heads never get blocked after a day's inactivity. Ricoh's perceived improved reliability stems from the fact that most users don't maintain their printer properly and Ricoh just does something for you that you can do on your own, PRINT FREQUENTLY.

Your problem is related to the fact you never understood the maintenance and assumed it wasn't possible. Had you maintained your 4880 properly you would had these issues so much.

Also, I point again to the inks you used for the accuracy issue, the Ricoh was designed to be an office printer, the 4880 is a fine art and photography printer. Sawgrass is the issue not the printer.

We are well pleased we made the change.

Graham. I marked up in your comments above.

 

[RobJ4077]

Thank you both for your responses. I appreciate the thoroughness of your response Graham. And, Mike I have a couple questions for you.....

My 4880 is capable of outstanding color reproduction out of the box. Your issue would be the Sawgrass inks and the Power Driver if you are getting poor color reproduction. In it's native setup the 4880 has outstanding gamut and grayscale output so you shouldn't blame your printer, it's what you are putting in it.

The 4880 doesnt tell you how much ink is left in the cartridge (the 4800 did). You will therefore waste ink replacing cartridges as its difficult to know which is empty.

If you use clear carts then you look yourself to see what is remaining, even if Epson didn't lock out 3rd party inks and carts from monitoring ... Epson's ink monitoring is never accurate anyway. I have zero issues with knowing how much ink is left, the carts come out the front of the printer and you can easily see the remaining inks.

Mike,

You mention that sawgrass inks and the power driver are the issue with color reproduction. What inks do you use in the 4880? And do the inks come with a color profile?

I still haven't made the final decision whether to get the 4880 or not, but if there is a better option than the sawgrass inks, I would probably be more inclined to make the jump.

Thank you,
Rob

 

[mgparrish]

Thank you both for your responses. I appreciate the thoroughness of your response Graham. And, Mike I have a couple questions for you.....

My 4880 is capable of outstanding color reproduction out of the box. Your issue would be the Sawgrass inks and the Power Driver if you are getting poor color reproduction. In it's native setup the 4880 has outstanding gamut and grayscale output so you shouldn't blame your printer, it's what you are putting in it.

The 4880 doesnt tell you how much ink is left in the cartridge (the 4800 did). You will therefore waste ink replacing cartridges as its difficult to know which is empty.

If you use clear carts then you look yourself to see what is remaining, even if Epson didn't lock out 3rd party inks and carts from monitoring ... Epson's ink monitoring is never accurate anyway. I have zero issues with knowing how much ink is left, the carts come out the front of the printer and you can easily see the remaining inks.

Mike,

You mention that sawgrass inks and the power driver are the issue with color reproduction. What inks do you use in the 4880? And do the inks come with a color profile?

I still haven't made the final decision whether to get the 4880 or not, but if there is a better option than the sawgrass inks, I would probably be more inclined to make the jump.

Thank you,
Rob

I'm basing my statement on OEM Epson inks which the printer was designed for. On any sublimation setup your inks combination and profile are the determining factor really for quality.

I mean a 4 color printer designed for office usage only that is neither a photographic or art printer being better than an 8 color printer that is used by art and photographic professionals? .. think about it.

Having said that the 4880 is out of production, if you get a used one be careful, and if you want the most out of use all 8 colors and stay away from Sawgrass. I would be nervous about those unused slots, they could be beyond repair now,

 

[RobJ4077]

I see..... Thank you Mike. That makes sense. I am going to check the printer out early this week. I will be sure to carefully inspect it.

Again, Thank you all for your input!

Rob

 

[cleggy]

Thanks for the info Mike.
I agree I'm sure that the native 4880 is a quality printer, but i've never achieved decent results printing through the power driver. I even contacted my supplier and sawgrass about the problem and they couldn't resolve it.
As Sawgrass ink comes in black cartridges, so i cant see how much ink is left in them. Clear carts would obviously be easier to see, but where do i get them - i guess you must be using a css system.
I regularly try the colour bar print withing the power driver but this has little if any effect on getting the heads working again. I have to print large blocks of colour to do this.
The video was useful and i figured out most of these things anyway. We dont get that simple green cleaning stuff here in the uk ( is it window cleaner?). You' d think that there would be some proper cleaning fluid available. I've tried other equivalent fluids to no avail.
We do a lot of printing so its unlikely our printers are left for more than 2 days idle at a time, and the epson has always been frustrating to get working i.e 1 colour will just stop working.
Enough was enough and after 4 printers i decided to throw innthe towel and switch to Ricoh with sawgrass inks. The ricoh is cheaper ond only takes 4 carts but it prints way way better than the Epson and at a faster speed. I still have two epsons but now never bother with the as the Ricoh can take the whole workload and without any colour issues or temperamental blockages to the heads.
Yes i'm sure the epson is great for fine art prints on paper, but i'm only using it to print on tshirts and mugs and its totally outclassed by the little ricoh.

 

[mgparrish]

Thanks for the info Mike.
I agree I'm sure that the native 4880 is a quality printer, but i've never achieved decent results printing through the power driver. I even contacted my supplier and sawgrass about the problem and they couldn't resolve it.
As Sawgrass ink comes in black cartridges, so i cant see how much ink is left in them. Clear carts would obviously be easier to see, but where do i get them - i guess you must be using a css system.
I regularly try the colour bar print withing the power driver but this has little if any effect on getting the heads working again. I have to print large blocks of colour to do this.
The video was useful and i figured out most of these things anyway. We dont get that simple green cleaning stuff here in the uk ( is it window cleaner?). You' d think that there would be some proper cleaning fluid available. I've tried other equivalent fluids to no avail.
We do a lot of printing so its unlikely our printers are left for more than 2 days idle at a time, and the epson has always been frustrating to get working i.e 1 colour will just stop working.
Enough was enough and after 4 printers i decided to throw innthe towel and switch to Ricoh with sawgrass inks. The ricoh is cheaper ond only takes 4 carts but it prints way way better than the Epson and at a faster speed. I still have two epsons but now never bother with the as the Ricoh can take the whole workload and without any colour issues or temperamental blockages to the heads.
Yes i'm sure the epson is great for fine art prints on paper, but i'm only using it to print on tshirts and mugs and its totally outclassed by the little ricoh.

Conde systems offered their own ICC profiles in lieu of offering customers Sawgrass Power Driver because they got better results making their own ICC. Just comes down to Sawgrass never got the color right on some models. Again this is a Sawgrass Issue.

I guarantee you that your clogging issues are due to the fact that you never maintained your printers. If you weren't aware of how to clean either the 4880 or 4800 or 4000 for sure you were going to have trouble. Large format printers require routine maintenance.

Also, there is no CIS for the 4880,nor is one needed, clear carts are available from many places. Use bulk inks for those.

Your problems stem from the fact you have been living in a Sawgrass world.

"Morpheus: This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever Sawgrass wants you to believe. You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes."

Have you actually seen 8 color heat transfer output on large format printers using other than Sawgrass inks and color management? So your perspective is only based on SAWGRASS. It is only "outclassed" because you are using Sawgrass inks and color management in the 4xxx printers. I'm sure some large format folks not married to Sawgrass here are laughing their butts off at this discussion. Has zero to do with the Epson being better for art paper and the Ricoh being better for mugs or tshirts, it's how good or poor Sawgrass allowed it to be.