Not that I'm aware of... I use a photopolymer it comes in quarts but it has about a year shelf life, vs 4 weeks once you mix a dual cure
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emulsion other than diazo
Are there any other emulsions besides Speedball Diazo that's sold in small amounts? We've been using Diazo for years, dealing with its inconsistencies, sometimes good/sometimes bad performance, because it's sold in small bottles. We don't even use 1 small bottle in 4 months. But, we're tired of the incredibly inconsistent quality. Is there anything sold in <1/2 pint amounts (<300ml)? I've only seen quarts and gallons, and we wouldn't even use that much in a year.
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That might work. A quart lasting a year would be decent. Do you have a brand?Not that I'm aware of... I use a photopolymer it comes in quarts but it has about a year shelf life, vs 4 weeks once you mix a dual cure
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I use Saatichem graphic PU. But I think all photopolymers have around the same shelf life...
and they are ready to use out of the box. You don't need to mix anything into them.... I use it because like you I don't make enough screens to justify a quart every 4 weeks
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and they are ready to use out of the box. You don't need to mix anything into them.... I use it because like you I don't make enough screens to justify a quart every 4 weeks
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Since your reply, I've been doing some searching on Google about photopolymer emulsions. It looks like you have to get special hardener if you use water-based inks, which we do. Is that correct?
The screens we make have to last for at least a year, if not longer. Our average life for a design is about 2 years, give or take popularity. We have one design that we've had for over 5 years. So, when picking an emulsion, I've got to keep that in mind.
The screens we make have to last for at least a year, if not longer. Our average life for a design is about 2 years, give or take popularity. We have one design that we've had for over 5 years. So, when picking an emulsion, I've got to keep that in mind.
That I'm not sure about... I know the graphic PU says it will work with water based if you post expose it... I also always reclaim my screens after I'm done using them so I don't know about long term use..
Are you using the screens often or do they sit more then not... how many prints do you do in one print cycle before the screen sits again? If your not using it very much and it sits more that it gets used it may be worth just reclaiming it and making a new screen every time you need it..
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Are you using the screens often or do they sit more then not... how many prints do you do in one print cycle before the screen sits again? If your not using it very much and it sits more that it gets used it may be worth just reclaiming it and making a new screen every time you need it..
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We sell our own designs, so we use the screens, on average, 2-3 times a month, depending on sales. Over the holidays, I was printing every night. But, it's really variable. And the number of shirts we do is really variable, depending on how much stock we have. So, for example, we're prepping for Salt Lake Comic Con next week, and some designs I've printed about 30, but some I'm only filling in the holes on sizes, and only printed 5-10. But the next month, we may have a run on them, and will have to print 50, which is what we're expecting in June when we're at Phoenix Comicon and Denver Comic Con).That I'm not sure about... I know the graphic PU says it will work with water based if you post expose it... I also always reclaim my screens after I'm done using them so I don't know about long term use..
Are you using the screens often or do they sit more then not... how many prints do you do in one print cycle before the screen sits again? If your not using it very much and it sits more that it gets used it may be worth just reclaiming it and making a new screen every time you need it..
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The problem with reclaiming and burning new screens is that it's so labor intensive. We have to do our screens at home since we don't have a large tub at our shop. I also work a regular 9-5 job. It usually takes us 3 days to burn a screen at home. Degrease and clean the screen the first nite; apply emulsion the next nite, then burn it the third nite. So reburning the screen every time would be unfeasible.
You should build a little box for your screens and put a dehumidifier in there.
You can dry a screen, then apply and dry emulsion and have it ready for burning, all within 15 minutes. It may just help make life a whole lot easier for you and also allow you to be more flexible to your market demands.
Just a thought.
You can dry a screen, then apply and dry emulsion and have it ready for burning, all within 15 minutes. It may just help make life a whole lot easier for you and also allow you to be more flexible to your market demands.
Just a thought.
Humidity isn't an issue; we're in Denver. The issue is crappy Speedball emulsion, hence the question. Speedball emulsion usually requires at least 12 hours to completely dry. The fastest I've seen it dry was about 9 hours, and that was during a heat wave in Denver a couple years ago, where it was >100 degrees, and 0 humidity.You should build a little box for your screens and put a dehumidifier in there.
You can dry a screen, then apply and dry emulsion and have it ready for burning, all within 15 minutes. It may just help make life a whole lot easier for you and also allow you to be more flexible to your market demands.
Just a thought.
That's why I'm trying to get educated on emulsions. There's got to be something better that we can use.
I see what your saying... it would be hard if you use them that much... just keep in mind a screen is around 20 bucks, and emulsion is around 30 bucks.. that emulsion will do about 20 screens depending on the variables.... but with one screen per image you would need 20 separate screens plus still need the emulsion to coat them.. I realize it would be hard to do it at the moment, but keep it in mind that it is far cheaper for you to use the same screen over again than buying a new screen for each image.. you just need to plan to upgrade your systems to be able to coat your screens faster..
A little off topic, but I live in salt lake city, do you live in Utah or just travel to the different shows?
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A little off topic, but I live in salt lake city, do you live in Utah or just travel to the different shows?
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Well, some of this will be moot, as I will be hopefully quitting my day job at the end of July, but the problem still remains with doing screens at home, since we don't have a tub at the shop, and the bathroom is too small to convert into a utility tub. Sink is large enough to wash a screen, but can't do much else =P.I see what your saying... it would be hard if you use them that much... just keep in mind a screen is around 20 bucks, and emulsion is around 30 bucks.. that emulsion will do about 20 screens depending on the variables.... but with one screen per image you would need 20 separate screens plus still need the emulsion to coat them.. I realize it would be hard to do it at the moment, but keep it in mind that it is far cheaper for you to use the same screen over again than buying a new screen for each image.. you just need to plan to upgrade your systems to be able to coat your screens faster..
A little off topic, but I live in salt lake city, do you live in Utah or just travel to the different shows?
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Oh, I should mention that our designs are mostly 1 color, with very little fine detail. I'm attaching one of our newest designs as an example.
We live in Denver, and we travel all over the country to vend at anime and comic conventions.
Speedball itself is not inconsistent. Its either supply being old since its one of the least used emulsions and mostly by hobbyist. Or the handling of the emulsion can also be the issue. I have used speedball in a emergency and has never taken 9 hrs to dry but I am sure everyone's results will vary.
The only photopolymer I know of that holds up decently to waterbase is the Satti Chem PHU. I have run up to 500 peices with discharge without a hardener which discharge is more abrasive then waterbase. With a hardener will last even longer. Viniger can also be used as a hardener. I personally have never used it as I tend to use proper chemicals for the job and since I use all roller frames with roller mesh don't want to risk locking emulsion on mesh.
Although thin lines in the scheme of screen printing I wouldn't cal that very fine details.
If you buy some real diazo emulsion mix properly some places sell in pints keep in fridge while not in use it will last longer 30 days. I have had it last 6 months. You have to let it sit out for a bit before coating a screen. Here is what I do when I need diazo. I buy a gallon and 4 separate diazo bottles for qts. Split it into qts or pints. Seal up the unmixed emulsion and put in the fridge. Unmixed emulsion has a 1 year shelf life. Even longer in the fridge. I just mixed a qt last week almost 2 years old although I used new diazo before mixing as the diazo shelf life even unmixed is only 6 months to a year.
The only photopolymer I know of that holds up decently to waterbase is the Satti Chem PHU. I have run up to 500 peices with discharge without a hardener which discharge is more abrasive then waterbase. With a hardener will last even longer. Viniger can also be used as a hardener. I personally have never used it as I tend to use proper chemicals for the job and since I use all roller frames with roller mesh don't want to risk locking emulsion on mesh.
Although thin lines in the scheme of screen printing I wouldn't cal that very fine details.
If you buy some real diazo emulsion mix properly some places sell in pints keep in fridge while not in use it will last longer 30 days. I have had it last 6 months. You have to let it sit out for a bit before coating a screen. Here is what I do when I need diazo. I buy a gallon and 4 separate diazo bottles for qts. Split it into qts or pints. Seal up the unmixed emulsion and put in the fridge. Unmixed emulsion has a 1 year shelf life. Even longer in the fridge. I just mixed a qt last week almost 2 years old although I used new diazo before mixing as the diazo shelf life even unmixed is only 6 months to a year.
Inconsistency is the problem we're having now. Last batch of emulsion we had it down to 22mins with a 200w bulb 18" from the screen. We tried that with the new batch, and it washed out the emulsion within a couple minutes. We tried 26 mins and still rinsed out the emulsion, but didn't fully rinse out the details, and if you took a brush to it, it rubbed away the emulsion with the lightest, most minimal pressure. Tried 32 minutes, and the design didn't want to rinse out at all. Tried 26 minutes last nite with fixable success, but was very frustrating.Speedball itself is not inconsistent. Its either supply being old since its one of the least used emulsions and mostly by hobbyist. Of the handling of the emulsion can also be the issue. I have used speedball in a emergency and has never taken 9 hrs to dry but I am sure everyone's results will vary.
The only photopolymer I know of that holds up decently to waterbase is the Satti Chem PHU. I have run up to 500 peices with discharge without a hardener which discharge is more abrasive then waterbase. With a hardener will last even longer. Viniger can also be used as a hardener. I personally have never used it as I tend to use proper chemicals for the job and since I use all roller frames with roller mesh don't want to risk locking emulsion on mesh.
Although thin lines in the scheme of screen printing I wouldn't cal that very fine details.
If you buy some real diazo emulsion mix properly some places sell in pints keep in fridge while not in use it will last longer 30 days. I have had it last 6 months. You have to let it sit out for a bit before coating a screen. Here is what I do when I need diazo. I buy a gallon and 4 separate diazo bottles for qts. Split it into qts or pints. Seal up the unmixed emulsion and put in the fridge. Unmixed emulsion has a 1 year shelf life. Even longer in the fridge. I just mixed a qt last week almost 2 years old although I used new diazo before mixing as the diazo shelf life even unmixed is only 6 months to a year.
That's clever, re separating the emulsion by quarts. We might try that. I noticed that there's a lot of Diazo emulsions. Is there one specifically for water-based inks?
Almost all diazo will be labeled for water base but not all.
Part of the problem maybe your exposure. 200w at 18" is a very weak source and a weak light. Is this a halogen? Or a incandescent. You can go get a 500w or 1000w halogen work light, take the glass off and expose about 16". I did this for a few years starting out. I used a fan so that the heat doesn't effect the emulsion. You will get much better results.
As for splitting the emulsion. I buy the qt size diazo bottles because splitting diazo you need a highly accurate scientific scale. I usually only mix qts as the few times I did pints had inconsistent results as far as the time staying the same.
Btw as bulbs age they will loose UV output.
Part of the problem maybe your exposure. 200w at 18" is a very weak source and a weak light. Is this a halogen? Or a incandescent. You can go get a 500w or 1000w halogen work light, take the glass off and expose about 16". I did this for a few years starting out. I used a fan so that the heat doesn't effect the emulsion. You will get much better results.
As for splitting the emulsion. I buy the qt size diazo bottles because splitting diazo you need a highly accurate scientific scale. I usually only mix qts as the few times I did pints had inconsistent results as far as the time staying the same.
Btw as bulbs age they will loose UV output.
re bulbs: how often should you change them? We had burned some screens in mid-January, then did a bunch in early March with a new bottle of emulsion. Didn't have these problems in January, which is why I'm thinking it's the emulsion, and not necessarily the light bulb. But, we could try changing it out.Almost all diazo will be labeled for water base but not all.
Part of the problem maybe your exposure. 200w at 18" is a very weak source and a weak light. Is this a halogen? Or a incandescent. You can go get a 500w or 1000w halogen work light, take the glass off and expose about 16". I did this for a few years starting out. I used a fan so that the heat doesn't effect the emulsion. You will get much better results.
As for splitting the emulsion. I buy the qt size diazo bottles because splitting diazo you need a highly accurate scientific scale. I usually only mix qts as the few times I did pints had inconsistent results as far as the time staying the same.
Btw as bulbs age they will loose UV output.
We've done the 200w 18" setup for years with varying success. Sometimes they turn out perfect, other times it's a nightmare. I've gotten to the point where I just blame everything on the altitude =P
We've talked about getting the 500w halogen, but I don't have time to experiment with the set-up and exposure times.
Well, my diazo and photopolymers both dry in 5 minutes with a dehumidifier.... 12 hours plus without. I don't know why speedball would take any longer to dry in 28% humidity than any other emulsion. you should be able to literally watch the stuff dry, as long as your temps are 80+ . something doesn't figure to me... Have you got air movement?Humidity isn't an issue; we're in Denver. The issue is crappy Speedball emulsion, hence the question. Speedball emulsion usually requires at least 12 hours to completely dry. The fastest I've seen it dry was about 9 hours, and that was during a heat wave in Denver a couple years ago, where it was >100 degrees, and 0 humidity.
That's why I'm trying to get educated on emulsions. There's got to be something better that we can use.
Try some emulsion from Ryonet, then. You can get emulsion hardner for wb inks.
Re splitting diazo - I've done it from gallon to quarts. The activator and emulsion from various quarts actually varied a fair bit.
I just took a .1 gr scale and measured a new pot of quart emulsion and it's diazo jar. Made a note and then replicated it from the gallon supply. Last one of the 4 was kinda weird and out on the numbers, but it still worked fine.
Have to keep it cool in the summer or it starts to form cross links in the pot. That is UGLY!
I just took a .1 gr scale and measured a new pot of quart emulsion and it's diazo jar. Made a note and then replicated it from the gallon supply. Last one of the 4 was kinda weird and out on the numbers, but it still worked fine.
Have to keep it cool in the summer or it starts to form cross links in the pot. That is UGLY!
Unfortunately, no air movement. We have our screens dry in the laundry room (read tiny closet) because the door can be closed and completely dark. But, there's only a 210 outlet in there for the washer/dryer, and no space for a fan. But I'm uber wary of having fans on my damp screens as it's so dry and dusty here. I don't know what the dust would do to the screen, but I'm not terribly keen to find out.Well, my diazo and photopolymers both dry in 5 minutes with a dehumidifier.... 12 hours plus without. I don't know why speedball would take any longer to dry in 28% humidity than any other emulsion. you should be able to literally watch the stuff dry, as long as your temps are 80+ . something doesn't figure to me... Have you got air movement?
Try some emulsion from Ryonet, then. You can get emulsion hardner for wb inks.
Checking out Ryonet. Thanks for all the suggestions, checking them all out.
Your wasting time right now. Check out Ryonets Dual Cure DXP I think. They have times for a 500W work light. It will get you very close and if it doesn't then your screens aren't drying. They may be dry on the outside but most likely over 50% humidity or better on the inside. Air circulation is almost a must. Before I had a dry box. I had a 6 color press. I would put coated screens in the press and use a fan. The screens dried in 30-90 min depending on temp humidity. I would do this after dark and put dried screens in black trash bags for storage
Your exposure causes cross linking in the emulsion. IMO using less then a 500W halogen isn't enough power to form proper cross linking without severe risk of undercutting even with a single point exposure. In 1-2 screen exposures using the emulsion from Ryonet and their recommendations you should be good. The first screen I ever exposed came out using their times for my exposure unit at the time.
Your exposure causes cross linking in the emulsion. IMO using less then a 500W halogen isn't enough power to form proper cross linking without severe risk of undercutting even with a single point exposure. In 1-2 screen exposures using the emulsion from Ryonet and their recommendations you should be good. The first screen I ever exposed came out using their times for my exposure unit at the time.
I think you're right. Looking at the Ryonet WBP right now since we use water-based inks. $30 is pretty reasonable for a quart, even if we waste some. The Lowe's by our shop has the 500w halogen lights. Just have to figure out to set up the lights, since the lights don't seem terribly modular.Your wasting time right now. Check out Ryonets Dual Cure DXP I think. They have times for a 500W work light. It will get you very close and if it doesn't then your screens aren't drying. They may be dry on the outside but most likely over 50% humidity or better on the inside. Air circulation is almost a must. Before I had a dry box. I had a 6 color press. I would put coated screens in the press and use a fan. The screens dried in 30-90 min depending on temp humidity. I would do this after dark and put dried screens in black trash bags for storage
Your exposure causes cross linking in the emulsion. IMO using less then a 500W halogen isn't enough power to form proper cross linking without severe risk of undercutting even with a single point exposure. In 1-2 screen exposures using the emulsion from Ryonet and their recommendations you should be good. The first screen I ever exposed came out using their times for my exposure unit at the time.
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