[onetime45]

Hi All

was absolutely devastated to find out about formaldehyde in most pretreats. I was also told a standard paper mask was fine but then looking into it, I need something much more serious.

I did some searching on this forum and found the thread with the difference between p5001 abd p5002 (sans formaldehyde). The thread was 3 years old so not sure where it's all at now. People said the 5002 wasn't very good on cotton printing solid white which I do a lot of.

Im sorry America, but I really don't appreciate your fda's, usda's saying something is non-toxic when there is known cancer causing chemicals in the product. It's an absolute joke and tbh I feel there is something more going on in regards to that sort of thing, but that's for another day.

As I said I would appreciate an update on the formula, which does AA carry?

If I find out there is formaldehyde, I will only be pretreating with a full face mask, glasses, hat, long sleeve shirt and pants until my current lease expires and I will be changing occupations.

I hope Im jumping the gun and this has all changed and I've been on 5002 since I started (18 months ago), but lets face it, Dupont are who they are. Anything that is listed as 'industry secret' is an absolute cop-out if your ask me.

Disappointed to say the least. Have searched the net for msds and can't find anything anywhere.

 

[23spiderman]

you worry about nothing. there's not enough formaldehyde in the DuPont pretreat to hurt anything. if you had done your research, like you say you have, you would have discovered that. even salad bar items are "known to cause cancer" according the state of California. no mask, gloves, or anything else is needed.

all that being said, Image Armour is MUCH better than DuPont's preatreat, and AA sells that as well. you can contact @BrianWalker here on the forums for any info regarding formaldehyde as i don't know if it's in Image Armour or not.

 

[onetime45]

Yeah because the salad bar is pumped with glyphosate which does cause cancer. Being in america, most of your food is trash and GMO anyway so it's not surprising.

Organic broccoli doesn't cause cancer. Fresh air doesnt cause cancer. My lentils don't cause cancer. Neither do my tomatoes.

Did I understand you right that you are comfortable with daily exposure to formaldehyde (albeit any dose) with no gloves and no mask? If that is the case, you are the wrong person for me to be speaking to.

 

[Smalzstein]

To my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong). Formaldyine is used in the PT manufactoring process, and the chemical is broken in to different particals in the end product.

 

[onetime45]

Maternal exposure to low-level air pollution and pregnancy outcomes: a population-based study - Springer

"Our findings suggest...there might be a relationship between maternal exposure to ambient formaldehyde and the risk of Low Birth Weight and premature birth"

Yes there is only x% in the product, but what people fail to understand is this simple equation. Small dose x million doses = toxicity.

I operate from home, open all windows, and pretreat in the garage but have to walk into the room where the press is. My wife is home all day and we had a 6 week premature baby. Thank God he is happy and healthy now but it was very scary for a bit there.

I started worrying when I saw residue on plants that I have which are several metres away from the press. Also I have some other small pot plants in the print room which when I watered last week, ran WHITE, as in pretreat white, out the bottom, I basically had to flush each plant for a minute just to get the water to run clear as so much had settled.

The other alarm bell was plants dying in the print room. I have the same species of plant in other locations in the house and no issues.

So are we being sold 5001 or 5002? probably whatever replaced the formaldehyde is more toxic.

 

[Smalzstein]

Residue on plants means nothing youturn on a humidifier to much and there will be wjite residue on them and its just water.

 

[onetime45]

Residue on plants means nothing youturn on a humidifier to much and there will be wjite residue on them and its just water.

What colour is the run-off out of the bottom of a pot plant when you water it? brown (from the soil) to clear. The run off is WHITE. The closer the plant to the heat press the whiter the run off and the longer I need to flush it before the soil is clean.

 

[Smalzstein]

Main ingrideint of PT is SALT. So that is probably what you see.

 

[onetime45]

Main ingrideint of PT is SALT. So that is probably what you see.

good point although end of the day, its pre treat, with formaldehyde, the salt isnt magically separating itself from the water and other ingredients and depositing itself around my house, into my lungs and my families lungs.

 

[Stitch-Up]

@onetime45

Very interesting thread but, if based on assumptions it's scaremongering.

Can you provide the definitive proof for example;

that formaldehyde is present in such quantities as to be a health hazzard?
that that formaldehyde is present in such quantities as to be a health hazzard if exposed to it on a daily basis, or is this an assumption?
that your plants DID die as a result of formaldehyde poisoning, or is it an assumption?
that the white water emerging from the base of your plant pots is formaldehyde, or is it an assumption?

If all are assumptions, I'm devastated at your reaction. Also devastated that you haven't 'pulled the plug' on the DTG business regardless of the lime left on the lease.

 

[onetime45]

@onetime45

Very interesting thread but, if based on assumptions it's scaremongering.

Can you provide the definitive proof for example;

that formaldehyde is present in such quantities as to be a health hazzard?
that that formaldehyde is present in such quantities as to be a health hazzard if exposed to it on a daily basis, or is this an assumption?
that your plants DID die as a result of formaldehyde poisoning, or is it an assumption?
that the white water emerging from the base of your plant pots is formaldehyde, or is it an assumption?

If all are assumptions, I'm devastated at your reaction. Also devastated that you haven't 'pulled the plug' on the DTG business regardless of the lime left on the lease.

Very reasonable thought patterns, all of which I have entertained. I literally only discovered the formaldehyde component tonight after suspecting something was a miss.

I'm planning on contacting a company on monday who may be able to test the air in my home so that will answer the majority of my own questions.

Unfortunately, I dont have the resources to fully assess the 'safe' limit of formaldehyde, and do a multiple generational study in rats let alone humans. If there is any register of the toxin I will pull the plug.

It isnt scare mongering just genuine concerns and questions about a chemical that is a KNOWN carcinogen and one of the most potent. Ive found some of my pretreat bottles marked 5001 so the chemical is there.

Is 5002 available? is it good? what are you guys using? what about the image armour brand?

Rather than ask ME to prove if formaldehyde in qty's found in pretreat are hazardous, what testing have DUPONT done to prove it is safe? have they had a large number of human individuals spray 50 shirts a day 5 days a week for x number of years and assessed the outcome? do they just force feed a couple of rats, find out the level that causes death within 24 hours and make sure it's below that?

Macdonalds say their food is ok if you get what I mean.

 

[onetime45]

as for the plants, Ive never seen the water run white before... the closer the pots to the press/treat area the more I need to flush them to have the water run white/brown.

FYI I have a couple of 'happy plants' in the room (not the ones in question running white or dying which are smaller plants) also which are known for their ability to absorb and clean toxins from the atmosphere. For anybody in the trade, I'd recommend them wholeheartedly and whatever happens I will be buying several more.

Side note, been getting really good results printing on wood with the textile printer, so if we do decide to pull the plug, will run off a couple thousand wood prints to sell to tide us over while we look for something else. No pretreat, no pressing.

 

[allamerican-aeoon]

MSDS sheet is available on DuPont website.
I never faced warning sign or side effect notice.
Chance of getting cancer or bad effect are so slim. Slimer than car accident.
We should keep driving to survive while we know there are many crazy drivers, Right?
I do respect you are naturalist and love plants and flowers(me too, I have many happy plants. My other side, watering trimming in the morning is pleasure, lol). However, you or me never can go back 100 years ago when all were more natural than now. Even if we can go back There were more dangers and risks were there. Diseases, inconveniences under more natural title. We can not ask questions until we reached to questionable stage. Sun was part of Earth. Earth was center of universe. No one questioned about it until we become wiser enough to question. There are none is100%, water? Gold? Anything? Except on math.
If you pull the plug What will be your next move? I am sure we can come up with risks you will facing 100%(I just said there are no 100%, lol)
Our business go back to screen printing where so much more chemicals and harmful products. Much more than DTG is standing. DTG is safest process exist among all printing. This is my final statement.
I hope you will let plug along and precede with caution.
Cheers! Beers are on me always.

 

[Stitch-Up]

All comments noted James. I will follow this thread with interest.

Post up some pictures of your wood printing - that would be very interesting to see.

Good luck.

 

[onetime45]

MSDS sheet is available on DuPont website.
I never faced warning sign or side effect notice.
Chance of getting cancer or bad effect are so slim. Slimer than car accident.
We should keep driving to survive while we know there are many crazy drivers, Right?
I do respect you are naturalist and love plants and flowers(me too, I have many happy plants. My other side, watering trimming in the morning is pleasure, lol). However, you or me never can go back 100 years ago when all were more natural than now. Even if we can go back There were more dangers and risks were there. Diseases, inconveniences under more natural title. We can not ask questions until we reached to questionable stage. Sun was part of Earth. Earth was center of universe. No one questioned about it until we become wiser enough to question. There are none is100%, water? Gold? Anything? Except on math.
If you pull the plug What will be your next move? I am sure we can come up with risks you will facing 100%(I just said there are no 100%, lol)
Our business go back to screen printing where so much more chemicals and harmful products. Much more than DTG is standing. DTG is safest process exist among all printing. This is my final statement.
I hope you will let plug along and precede with cautious.
Cheers! Beers are on me always.

Yes and no. Risks everywhere? sure. Can we minimise or eliminate? maybe, maybe not. Potential risk is something, proven carcinogen in the home environment is another.

I can't find the fact sheet on the dupont website, they make everything from space suits to GMO's and everything in between and I had trouble getting relevant search results on their page.

If you could please link me to the msds and inform me 5001 or 5002? what is everybody using?

 

[johnnyb57]

Holly molly james your a bag of nerves, how do you live ? Christ sex can be a health hazard, are you giving that up ?

 

[allamerican-aeoon]

Let's say if it is poison.
Dtg been around near 10 yrs.
Anyone claimed yet?
I touch I breath all the time who pay attention on health 2nd to No one.
I will locate link later. I am at show floor now.
Cheers! Inks are on me always.

 

[Smalzstein]

Holly molly james your a bag of nerves, how do you live ? Christ sex can be a health hazard, are you giving that up ?

HA! the best argument

 

[23spiderman]

basically, i AM the guy you want to be talking to based on what you want from DuPont. I've been spraying pretreat since 2008 with no mask, gloves, Haz-Mat suit, etc. other than the third arm coming out the middle of my back... seriously, though, if you even have the HINT that something in your environment caused your baby to be born 6 weeks early, why would you continue with that "something".

i'm not arguing that formaldehyde isn't dangerous; that would be foolish. what i am saying is that the end product of the pretreat does not contain "straight" formaldehyde, like what Smalzstein referred to.

i'll try to find the info on Image Armour. i know the salt content is higher than DuPont based on the scaling i see, but other than that, i'm not sure.

 

[onetime45]

HA! the best argument

Execpt that it's a loaded one. Sex releases all sorts of good chemicals in the brain, is good cardiovascular work out. Safe sex between a loving couple is a beautiful thing so I dont know why you would bring it up.

Now unless you are 75 years old double popping viagra pills and going to group s-x parties, that might be dangerous. What kind are you participating in? you have sex in the middle of the freeway in front of oncoming traffic?

All I am doing is asking real questions as I am concerned and I don't appreciate the snarky remarks.

But it's fine, go eat some hot dogs, drink your coke and budweiser, super size the lot, 'everything gives you cancer' so who cares right? just go nuts.