Dual cmyk question

2543 Views 11 Replies 5 Participants Last post by allamerican-aeoon, Apr 29, 2012

g.lupo

Discussion Starter · Apr 27, 2012

If you have a dual cmyk set up,(which I don't) could you print at 720x360 to print even faster or would the image be not as clear. Only asking because few my clients order in the hundreds of white shirts at a time and was think of getting another print top in dual cmyk. But thier happy with image the way it is on single pass.

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VTG

· #2 · Apr 27, 2012

Gerald,

According to some older NeoFlex threads that I've read, using a "Dual CMYK" set-up for white shirts will definitely speed up your print/production time ... it should also eliminate some potential headaches (wasted white ink, clogging, maintenance, etc).

I also recall Peter saying that the print speed is nearly "double" with Dual CMYK (as opposed to CMYK + White).

If I recall Justin Walker uses a "Dual CMYK" set-up just for white shirts with great results. Here are two of his old posts that may shed some more light on the subject.

Nov 27, 2011 9:44:22 PM

Justin Walker said:
It speeds up production by allowing you to print at a lower resolution, while still maintaining a comparable ink deposit. For instance, if you are only printing with (4) channels, you would typically print white shirts at 1440 x 720 on the Neoflex. However when printing with (8) channels of ink, you are putting down twice as much in a single pass, and can therefore lower the resolution to 720 x 720 while achieving comparable quality.

To put it simply, you can lay down as much ink at 720 x 720 (with 8 channels) as you could at 1440 x 720 (with 4 channels).

Nov 28, 2011 2:31:26 PM

Justin Walker said:
All printers work the same way; the only difference is whether or not there is a profile that exists, which tells the printer how much ink to lay down in dual-CMYK or normal-CMYK mode. Regardless of whether the profile is there or not, the potential is still there for any (8) channel printer to lay down the same volume at a lower resolution if you use all (8) channels instead of only (4).

On our Neoflex, we were once printing at dual-CMYK and it actually looked WORSE than the (4) channel CMYK that many people use.... It took us a minute to realize that we had selected the incorrect color profile, so the printer wasn't being told to max out the ink deposit (I guess technically it is still not maxed out..... We could make it lay down even more ink if we wanted to!) Once we made the small adjustment, everything was right with the world again.

The Anajet uses a printing method that actually makes a lot of sense to me - they allow you to do multiple passes (at a set resolution), thus increasing the ink deposit in that way (while also increasing print time). So for instance, if you were to print at 720 x 720 using the double-pass method on the Anajet, it would be like printing the entire image at 720 x 720, then going back over it for an additional pass at 720 x 720..... The main difference between how Anajet handles that compared to most others, is that they allow the printhead to take multiple swipes BEFORE moving to the next line, rather than printing the entire image then coming back for more.

Back in the day, we did a lot of in-house testing using multiple print passes vs. dual CMYK, and even multiple print passes WITH dual CMYK (at lower resolutions since we could put more ink down, faster) - in the end, we decided that our best option was to simply print at a slightly higher resolution, using the dual-CMYK and "maybe" even some pretreatment, to get the best possible results on light garments.

Your results may vary!

Hope this helps.

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Justin Walker

· #3 · Apr 28, 2012

Having a printer set up specifically for dual CMYK is a "must", in my opinion! Currently we print most of our white tees at 720 x 720 - this is our "default" resolution for Dual CMYK, although we do offer the option for our clients to specify 720 x 360 (we call it "Production Mode" for light garments).

Last week, we printed an order of 450 white shirts at 720 x 360 (Dual CMYK) with a 50% color boost in the RIP - they came out great, but my eyes prefer the more saturated 720 x 720, since I feel it is a little more crisp as well. Really it is a matter of subjective opinion, as some people prefer more or less saturation - we try not to make that decision for our clients, but instead let them tell us how they'd like their work printed.

No matter what, you can't please everyone!

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g.lupo

Discussion Starter · #4 · Apr 28, 2012

can you tell me how long it took to do those 450 shirts at the 720 x 360.

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Justin Walker

· #5 · Apr 28, 2012

glupo said:
can you tell me how long it took to do those 450 shirts at the 720 x 360.

I don't track exactly how long each order takes overall, as our shop is more about keeping the machines running as much as possible (we don't care what's printing - we just load and go!). I recall our hourly production numbers from that one machine were somewhere between 50-60 per hour while my guys were working on those shirts - the image was in the 10" x 12" range.

If that was all we were working on, we could have knocked them out in one full day of printing. When printing at 720 x 720 we tend to only get around 35 prints per hour @ dual CMYK.

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g.lupo

Discussion Starter · #6 · Apr 28, 2012

my design a little smaller, im getting about 50 an hr for front and 40 an hr for back at 720 x 720. so i figured if i get dual i could about 80 hr front and 70 hour back. that would put me in to making $100 an hr instead o f$50.

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JeridHill

· #7 · Apr 29, 2012

glupo said:
my design a little smaller, im getting about 50 an hr for front and 40 an hr for back at 720 x 720. so i figured if i get dual i could about 80 hr front and 70 hour back. that would put me in to making $100 an hr instead o f$50.

Are you saying you are only currently making about $1 per print? If so, you are underselling yourself in a major way, especially with dtg. Even when I was screen printing, to make $1 per print, I had to have a very large order. In my experience, you cannot run a successful business making only $50 per hour, and it's still very hard to do at $100 per hour. The overhead may be low now, but it will grow, so you need to make provision for it.

If you are not in the states, I could see this would be different, but in the USA, these numbers, IMO, are way too low.

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g.lupo

Discussion Starter · #8 · Apr 29, 2012

That is for only one of my clients who does about 5000 shirts a year total of same design on white. He pretty much was one of my first client to give me a chance. so i gave him a good price and cannot go back on it now. With everyone else i do charge higher. He basically got my business going and gets me other clients. So i have to do a favor for him.

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JeridHill

· #9 · Apr 29, 2012

Been there! Good to hear....

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allamerican-aeoon

· #10 · Apr 29, 2012 (Edited)

JeridHill said:
Are you saying you are only currently making about $1 per print? If so, you are underselling yourself in a major way, especially with dtg. Even when I was screen printing, to make $1 per print, I had to have a very large order. In my experience, you cannot run a successful business making only $50 per hour, and it's still very hard to do at $100 per hour. The overhead may be low now, but it will grow, so you need to make provision for it.

If you are not in the states, I could see this would be different, but in the USA, these numbers, IMO, are way too low.

Jerid,
You comments could make Gulpo little uncomfortable or insult.
He is in NJ Toms River. Real man and kind to share his knowledge with NeoFamily. $1/ea or 1 cent it is not your business. He never asked how the profit should be. I bet my bottom dollars he makes more money than you are. So? Do you get paid $150,000/year and minus living cost? $50x10hrsx minimum 25days x 12 months. That is accepted number all day long in USA or any other country on earth. I don't know where you come from or how fancy living you are having but sounds like you are spoiled.
When are you getting rid of your "made in the USA" signature? That is more not accepted in USA than $50/hr. While you use many Chinese and Japanese stuff and French Canadian designed. You must be bored on what you are doing with Your employer BQ. I see more your post in NeoFlex area than any other place. Do you see my posts in your area? Pity!
I told my kids play in our back yard before they grown up.
Please, let NeoFamily along they know what they are doing and more successful than any others maybe than you too? Play with mob-1 people where you belong.
Cheers! Beers are on me always.

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g.lupo

Discussion Starter · #11 · Apr 29, 2012

It takes longer cause front and back design. I'm happy with $1 on each side pure profit on this design. It's small not big, you need to generate clients anyway how first, than when u get known you can charge more to others who want you, we need them at first, than others will demand for us when they see out work cause it's the best.

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allamerican-aeoon

· #12 · Apr 29, 2012 (Edited)

glupo said:
It takes longer cause front and back design. I'm happy with $1 on each side pure profit on this design. It's small not big, you need to generate clients anyway how first, than when u get known you can charge more to others who want you, we need them at first, than others will demand for us when they see out work cause it's the best.

J,
You are scholar and gentleman. You ignored Jerid's comment. I should learn your virtue.

I just cannot digest well when outsider of NeoFmaily act like they are the ruler. $1/ each side shirts are fine in my eyes in same time you are investing on your future. I am here always to read and listen for NeoFamily.
If you get rich I will be the second person who will be the happiest after M, doing well keep going in same route. Anyone who will mess with NeoFamily, mess with me first.

Cheers! Beers are on me always. I caught 3 birdies today.

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