Joined
·
1,371 Posts
Does simulated process render smooth gradients better than an index sep.? 
Does Sim. Proc. handle smooth gradients like a halftone?
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
In my opinion and experience, halftones will produce a more aesthetically pleasing fade then with index. Do to the nature of halftone dots being different sizes, the transition of the gradient is less noticeable with halftones. Index uses only one dot size so it's dependent on the resolution you choose. the average print shop uses between 160-180dpi for index and this generates a visible dot size, not ideal for gradients in my opinion.
Joined
·
1,371 Posts
So then sim. proc. being essentially a color halftone will render gradients smoothly?
Joined
·
1,371 Posts
Do you need software package outside of Photoshop to render simulated process seps?
Joined
·
2,941 Posts
Get QuikSeps Pro. (quikseps.com) It would be a nightmare without it. It does process,semi-process, index,graytones, and more. check them out.......You won't be sorry!
Personally, I don't think that you would get a good result just trying out of Photoshop. And, with the quikseps, it does it in seconds.
Personally, I don't think that you would get a good result just trying out of Photoshop. And, with the quikseps, it does it in seconds.
Joined
·
1,371 Posts
Thanks Guys,
I appreciate the tips!
I appreciate the tips!
I do alot of simprocess work for a very demanding clientele. I will tell you this, you can use one of the automated programs, but you won't get near the quality as you would by having someone do it by hand. A computer can only do so much, and at the end of the day, knowing how inks mix on press and what order they should be printed in, how mesh types effect how the jobs run, etc. is better left to a human.
I have preached this for a long time, but find a good seps artist. There are dozens of freelancers that do nothing but sep simprocess jobs all day. CHARGE your customers for the seps, $25 per color is normally what we charge and pay a pro to do them. If for some reason the job isn't running right, you can pick up the phone, call them and tell them what the job is doing and they can help you solve the problem....you can't get that kind of help from a computer. All the money you pay a seps artist you will make back in quality of work and speed of printing. $.02 from a guy that prints alot of simprocess jobs.
I have preached this for a long time, but find a good seps artist. There are dozens of freelancers that do nothing but sep simprocess jobs all day. CHARGE your customers for the seps, $25 per color is normally what we charge and pay a pro to do them. If for some reason the job isn't running right, you can pick up the phone, call them and tell them what the job is doing and they can help you solve the problem....you can't get that kind of help from a computer. All the money you pay a seps artist you will make back in quality of work and speed of printing. $.02 from a guy that prints alot of simprocess jobs.
Joined
·
2,941 Posts
You can't seriously believe that freelancers aren't using sep programs in their work and then tweaking/adjusting them.
I'm an artist/screenprinter and I make use of modern technology. Like any other tool, you use it to your advantage and to get the best results. But, being a tool, I'm using it in conjunction with a good eye and manually tweaking.
Um..No, I hate to break the quickseps and fast films bubble, but the best sep guys in the industry do not use automatic sep programs and then tweak them. I've stood over the shoulder and watched one of the best in this business do them for me.
There is an experience level that only comes from working in demanding shops were color correct simprocess and process jobs are the standard. Seek those artists out and then you can really tell the difference between auto seps and "The Real Deal". For 99% of the industry I think quick seps and fast films and all the rest work fine....I've tried them all, and none gave me even remotely close to what I consider a quality imprint. Just my experience.
Add up the time it takes to tweak a sep, or when you find something isn't working when printing and you have to fix it, meanwhile my press is running 700 shirts an hour and making money. If you can send the seps out and almost be guaranteed a perfect sep everytime how much money do you really save by doing it yourself? How much trial and error is there involved in learning how to tweak, how many screens have to be reburned, jobs have to be resetup? And meanwhile my press is still running 700/hr. As I said, find a good seps guy, and charge your customers to sep their sim process jobs...that way, you ALWAYS break even or make money off the seps,and you are almost always guaranteed a excellent print.
Even if you decide to go with someone who uses some sort of automation for their seps, I would still let them do the tweaking while you do whats profitable in a screen printing shop......screen printing.
Just another way to look at things is all.
Joined
·
1,371 Posts
Like Denise, I print what I design. Falling in that 1% that would know objective quality the way a 700 shirt per hour shop would have to, is a long ways off for me, if in fact I ever grow to that level of proficiency and or production rate. Denise, I'm not saying that you aren't a 1 percent er, just that if it works to my eye, then I'm happy to take it to market. There's no LaCie monitor with a hood, color correct light and pms book in the hand of an ultra critical buyer in my shop. Although I would like to have a LaCie... well maybe someday. I greatly respect the big dogs and their uber proficiency, but my heart is as an independent designer - producer.
p.s. In art school I worked with a painter who called stretching his own canvass "ni**er" work. I loved canvass stretching, and all of the other aspects of producing a piece. To me it was all a part of the whole. In fact I have a Wicken friend who grows her own gourds and then carves and paints them. For me, the inter related aspects of the work is part of the juice.
p.s. In art school I worked with a painter who called stretching his own canvass "ni**er" work. I loved canvass stretching, and all of the other aspects of producing a piece. To me it was all a part of the whole. In fact I have a Wicken friend who grows her own gourds and then carves and paints them. For me, the inter related aspects of the work is part of the juice.
Joined
·
335 Posts
If Standardization is what you strive for in your shop (and one should) you need to have a working/theoretical knowledge of all the processes, materials and equipment used because they affect the final quality and the efficiency of the print/run.
That being said, image color separation is one of these processes that will have an affect on your final result and should be understood. Whether you hire a particular part of the print process out does not excuse you from understanding it's procedure and it's role in the "BIG PICTURE".
QuickSeps, Separation Studio, T-Seps, Photoshop are all tools used in your trade and exploring them is encouraged.
I am including a couple of video links to help you on your journey, use them to gain clarity, listen for keywords that you can further re/search, do the google, the youtube and get some Bill Hood books.
That being said, image color separation is one of these processes that will have an affect on your final result and should be understood. Whether you hire a particular part of the print process out does not excuse you from understanding it's procedure and it's role in the "BIG PICTURE".
QuickSeps, Separation Studio, T-Seps, Photoshop are all tools used in your trade and exploring them is encouraged.
I am including a couple of video links to help you on your journey, use them to gain clarity, listen for keywords that you can further re/search, do the google, the youtube and get some Bill Hood books.
- Working with Spot Process VueRite (now known as Separation Studio)
- Working with T-Seps (formely FastFilms)
- Working with Photoshop
I understand where you are coming from, I guess my point is, I have never seen a seps program give great art the respect it deserves. A talented artist with knowledge of how to sep takes great care in reproducing the art that you spent your energy and time to produce. They generally respect your art enough to give good printers the tools necessary to reproduce your hard work and talent onto the garment.
Joined
·
335 Posts
I get that, and John's obviously curious question is what is necessary to get him there. Time he get's to his 100th question about this paticular topic, he will be giving us answers about it.
i completely agree!
The automated sep software and plugins available are very good for beginners and non critical jobs.
Joined
·
2,941 Posts
Well, I guess it's all in the eye and experience.
Granted, I've worked as an artist for 30yrs (bookcover art, custom airbrush artwork on motorcycles, design work, animation, etc) and yeah, I do have a good eye with color.
FOR ME, because NO ONE can speak for others, why not make use of technology to create better products.
I have no doubt, CnClark, that you've seen good work from hands on seps, sure, that was the way for many many years. They are old school.
News flash, there's a lot of people who resist developments in all different industries.
I've dealt with my share of them over the years.
Years ago, I worked with in animation and we painted each cel by hand. Do you really think that that's the norm today??? Few and far between.
Heck, I resisted doing any computer-based artwork for a long time, then realized that for different applications, different approaches work better.
To each their own. And each person finds their strengths and weaknesses. Just because you can't get the hang of working with a tool doesn't mean that it's a bad or sub-par tool. That's just a cop out.
I'm glad those programs work good for you Celtic. In the hands of an exp. artist they can be a great tool. In the hands of someone with no experience, they can be a big time waste.
I am simply pointing out that if you are inexperienced and are just the average printer, clicking a few buttons and expecting your seps to be great is unrealistic, they won't make you the next Buffalo Shirt Factory..at least in my experience, and I have tried them all at some point. Shops that send seps out to good sep guys are going to get great seps that are ready to production nearly everytime....from a production standpoint that is worth a fortune. There's nothing worse than standing around the press trying to save a job that wasn't sepped right the first time. Obviously with 30 years experience knowing what to tweak and what will actually work on press is like second nature for you....it's not for someone asking the type of questions the OP was. In his case, I suggested to send them out, and I feel comfortable standing by the recommendation because I think his results will be far better by sending them out than with doing them through a seps program.
As for being old-school, I think you are grossly overestimating the importance and use of quickseps and the like in the good shops. But that is just my opinion....no use arguing over opinions.
Have a good one, and Happy printing!
I am simply pointing out that if you are inexperienced and are just the average printer, clicking a few buttons and expecting your seps to be great is unrealistic, they won't make you the next Buffalo Shirt Factory..at least in my experience, and I have tried them all at some point. Shops that send seps out to good sep guys are going to get great seps that are ready to production nearly everytime....from a production standpoint that is worth a fortune. There's nothing worse than standing around the press trying to save a job that wasn't sepped right the first time. Obviously with 30 years experience knowing what to tweak and what will actually work on press is like second nature for you....it's not for someone asking the type of questions the OP was. In his case, I suggested to send them out, and I feel comfortable standing by the recommendation because I think his results will be far better by sending them out than with doing them through a seps program.
As for being old-school, I think you are grossly overestimating the importance and use of quickseps and the like in the good shops. But that is just my opinion....no use arguing over opinions.
Have a good one, and Happy printing!
Joined
·
1,371 Posts
I've wasted a lot of time before I got, at least to a degree, a handle on index seps. I'm on the road to having a handle on half tones in screen print. It seems natural to me that Sim. Proc. having aspects of the two should be something to pursue next. I'm in it for the long haul, I love this work and have a lifetime in one form of graphics or another (used to earn my allowance doing cut and paste in the family typesetting shop). Rubylith, Letraset, strip printers, hot wax machines, stat cameras, bluelines are all things of the past. The first screen print I did had a hand cut paper stencil applied to the screen with oil based paint. Since then I've done exploded isometric projections of clocks in AutoCad and any of a number of other digital forms of composition. So while I'm in the process of learning the finer points of screen printing I'm no dilettante. Having said that I doubt that I ever achieve the level of proficiency CnClark has worked with on the top end of the industry. Denise, I appreciate your confidence in my finding my way to respectable simulated process separations using Quickseps, when I can afford it I most certainly will invest in that software. I truly hope that when the inevitable technical snags arise I can count on some guidance from you guys in making progress with that skill set. Starchild, I appreciate the links, it'll give me a good foundation before I start burning film and screens. I look at it as just one more in a series of graphic adventures.
Arguing...no, but discussing, absolutely. I don't take opinions contrary to mine as a personal affront. The only way to grow is to risk being wrong. If the road to perdition is paved with good intentions, then the road to heaven is paved with discarded misconceptions.
Joined
·
335 Posts
You should also snag Mark Coudray free PDF halftone secrets. And look into his halftone mastery course. scroll to the bottom of the page and watch the vid to see what you will learn.
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
