[inkbot printing]

if i get a deposit for a service/ product... then that person wants there deposit back, cause "they found a cheaper vendor" what is my legal right as a business? please help me if you know. screens are made... i was waiting for them to give me the sizes and colors, and it has been about three weeks since they gave me a deposit of $1075 which is about half gone already.... am i just screwed?

 

[Uncle John]

Kevin, were not lawyer's here. I would think that you refund the total minus screen and art charges. John

 

[binki]

Possession is 9/10 of the law. You have the money, do not give it back.

First off, do you have a contract in writing? If not you have a deposit and you should at least prevail in court for your costs if they sue you. Obviously you had a verbal or they would not have given you the money.

Keep the money, let them know you will still do the job and if they don't then the deposit is yours.

If/When you go to court, make sure everything you do from now on is documented. Every conversation, phone call, etc.

For all future business, make sure you have a contract that states deposits are non-refundable.

Finally, Court cases are not decided by what is right or wrong but by evidence presented. Rembember to document everything and bring it to court with you.

 

[selanac]

Re-negociate your price to match what price they received. I would start off by asking them what price they received from the new screen printer. Then say, I'll do the work for that amount. At least you won't have to pay anything back, or have to pay lawyers/court cost if you lose.

 

[cleos]

Re-negociate your price to match what price they received...

I would do that if the price they received makes sense and match quality. Some people have a different philosophy and no scruples to bring price down even if they don't make money and only because they bet on "volume", how stupid is that? Fact is they generally don't survive!

 

[inkbot printing]

well i quoted them @ $6.50 a shirt for 200 American Apparel tees front and back... plus $35 screen/setup fee.

 

[Rodney]

As John mentioned, we can't give you legal help here. You'll need to hire a lawyer for that.

The first thing you should look at is the contract between you and your customer.

You do have some terms of service that you have customers agree to for each order right?

 

[Mabuzi]

Check your service contract and if you dont have one, lesson learnt.
I would first try match the price!
I would give them the deposit back minus the screen cost, restocking fee and courier costs and a bit more.
I would definetly let the customer know the difference between quality and cheap.
This is probably a customer you do no want. What happens once the job is done and they ***** about quality?

 

[MotoskinGraphix]

The customer may just be not interested in printing the shirts at all. The, "I found another printer that is less expensive" may be his way of saying, cancel the order. The three weeks between deposit and colors/sizing without communication is a problem.

 

[binki]

what is my legal right as a business?

You have a contract even if it is verbal. Forget about your legal right, that will be decided in court. As long as you have the money you are in charge.

i was waiting for them to give me the sizes and colors

This part I find interesting. They gave you $1K and still didn't have the sizes and colors. Obviously they had intent to complete the contract.

I wouldn't re-negotiate the price. If you are not comfortable with the situation, figure out your costs, add your profit margin, and offer to give the rest back. Remember you have art fees, color separation fees, film, screens, other time to work on the order.

When you do give back the remaining amount make sure you have a contract that states they are accepting your terms and will not take legal action. Without that do not give the money back.

 

[selanac]

It most be a bad week for customers.

Yesterday I had a customer go back and forth for a rush order. This morning she called and said she'd take the lower cost garments, and go with it. I requested payment via Paypal. I than did something for about an hour, came back and she emailed me to apologise and say she decided to go with someone else. This was after she already said she was going with me.

Luckily, I have a little experience and knew not to order anything until I received the deposit. Which in this case I didn't.

I had to bite my tongue and not say anthing rude just incase she comes back for something else.

Of course if she does the price will double.

 

[vlcnmstr]

this is really a wonderful (in hindsight) example of why EVERYTHING needs to be in writing. If a deposit is made, they should be signing an agreement stating what it covers, terms of any refunds or if the deposit is in fact, non refundable. Making them all non refundable if they change their mind makes them think way more about their orders.

for any custom orders I do, I require a fifty percent non refundable deposit. this covers some of the supplies I need to purchase, time for set up/design, blanks that may be ordered and the time my machinery is now "held up" to do their order and cannot do anyone else's, making my schedule back up. All they need to see is fifty percent nonrefundable.. explaining more than that at the time gives them "wiggle room" and possible legal loopholes as they could say "shirts hadn't been ordered, so subtract that, or , no paint/ink/thread was used yet so no supplies... and on and on..

so "50% non-refundable deposit on order, balance on completion" is my standard. simple, easy to understand and clear if there's a legal issue later.

Ask yourself "what would judge judy do?" with your stance?

djl

 

[apparelcandy]

Re-negociate your price to match what price they received. I would start off by asking them what price they received from the new screen printer. Then say, I'll do the work for that amount. At least you won't have to pay anything back, or have to pay lawyers/court cost if you lose.

I agree with selanac, you should offer a lower price that your customer and you as a businessman meet.

 

[vlcnmstr]

I would politely disagree with lowering prices. "IF" you know your prices are fair to start with then lowering them for one person will start a slow (or fast) decline of your regular prices. Imagine the next person they tell to go to you and you don't give them the same low price? and the next may say they want even lower. soon no one will want to be the one that pays "regular" prices because you give a lower price to whoever. you may never get your prices back up.

Better to have occasional "sales" when you lower your price for a month, or for first time customers, or for huge orders.

Have you ever gone to a gas station that charges more and told them that unless they lower the price to the bargin company, you'll go over there? They will say "see ya" and yet the more expensive places don't seem to be empty of customers. hmm

 

[selanac]

He has a whole lot more to loose by keeping the money or giving back everything minus the art and screen charges.

If he did the latter at least he would teach the customer that they can't just pull out cause they get a better price. After the customer looses the money for the Art and Screens, the price will go back up for them and they'll hopefully see that and not be stuborn.

If he re-negociates at least he has a chance to make some money on the deal.

In my case I never did the art nor the screens. I waited for the deposit, and she sent me an email instead. I did waste time with her, but that goes with the business.

 

[freebird1963]

If you renogaite to today whats to keep this person from doingi it again in the future ? The economy is tight and people are looking to save every buck but if you give into her she has the upper hand next time too and really every time she comes in.

If you don't have anything in writing you need to decide if you want to burn this future customer and keep all the deposit, determine what you have into the order so far and return a portion of the money or give her the money back and hope they other place screws her over on the job and she comes back.

Think about all the places you go to were it says DEPOSIT REQUIRED NON REFUNDABLE. What did you feel when you read that. ? Do you think twice about it or figure if it comes to it you'll just raise hell till they give you your money back. I think most choice that option. If she goes that route how far are you willing to let her rant and rave and threaten you with a lawsuit and bad mouth you to everyone she knows.

Tough decision but be in her shoes for a second and think what you would want done and then decide which is best for you. I think in either case your gonna end up with some regret. Regret giving it back or regret keeping it and worrying about what shes gonna do.

Good Luck
Mark

 

[binki]

So you have a deal and a down payment. There is nothing to make you renegotiate.

 

[cleos]

I did previously post a comment with a similar case that went to court but in order to comply with the forum rules, I took it out.

However, I get the feeling that customers expect us to react in a certain way. Why? because we are the one who are setting the example. Try to go to one of these big printing company and check out their policy, they will not refund anything in case the customer cancels the contract and most of the time, the full payment is made upfront. Why should we do otherwise? A contract even verbal with a deposit made is as solid as a 200 pages document. In my opinion, I believe promoting other trends is risky and absurd. If you submit to the caprice of your customers, then that's what they will expect from you and they will drive you crazy! Same goes with matching prices, your business has its own particularities and requirements and your pricing should be defined accordingly. Matching or breaking the prices from your competition is not healthy in a long run.

 

[SunEmbroidery]

This isn't a legal point of view but I would keep at least part of the deposit (your cost for screens plus all time spent on the job) and if you do give a partial refund make sure your customer understands that the deposit you kept is for your time and materials already spent on their job. To many customers think artwork and set-up happens automatically and if they realize those tasks are part of what they pay for then they'll be less likely to bail out of jobs and you can justify raising your prices. Personally I require payment in full up front for most orders so I don't deal with the deposit issue often. I have refunded deposits in the past but I no longer believe that's the best policy if you've put time into a job after receiving a deposit.

 

[Imperfect Societ]

Did you provide a "sample" of their requested product and did your contract say whether the deposit was non-refundable?