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Could use some input on my first halftone attempt

4171 Views 33 Replies 7 Participants Last post by  lbridenstine, 
L
5
To start off, here's what I'm using:
-Ulano Q-x1 emulsion
-156 white mesh 20-24" screen
-Fixxons waterproof film positive
-500w halogen work light (26.5" away from screen)
-1.5" thick black foam inside the screen
-Spray tack to hold the film to the screen
-Free exposure calculator that was posted in another thread
-Design was created in Photoshop (by someone else), I'm printing it through Corel Painter (that's the best I have)

I attached pictures below. When I did the exposure calculator, it looked good between 12:45 and 21 minutes, but 12:45 looked the best to me. I did a test print (picture 1) with a few different types of images, some pulled off of google and are lo-res, but I just wanted to test them. The halftone ones washed out a bit, so I figured I should try longer on the next attempt.

The last picture (I don't have it online anywhere, so that one is actually attached) is what I'm trying to print. It might be ambitious for a first print, but it seems like it's do-able. I'm not sure the lpi. 300 dpi if that helps at all. The ink on the film positive didn't look opaque enough so I did two prints and put them together and somehow I think they actually lined up.

A couple things I did differently from the first test print: I increased exposure time to 18 minutes and I accidentally used the "thick" side of the scoop coater instead of thin. (one coat on each side)

One problem I have is that my printer won't print bigger than 8.5 x 11" and the design is 13 x 15" you might be able to see in one of the other pictures that there is a horizontal line going across the middle of the design where there was a small gap between sheets of film. Also, where I taped together the film, it bulged out a tiny bit and unstuck itself from the screen during exposure (that's why the "in" of "penguin" looks like that on the screen, maybe the "t" in "the" too), so I'm not sure how I can fix that other than using glass, but the glass I have is UV filtered, which is why I'm not using it, and also my screen is upright during exposure because of the work light. I'm on a budget and can't afford a vacuum exposure unit or anything like that.

The other obvious issue is that parts of the design washed out that shouldn't have and parts that should have didn't, so I'm not sure if it's over or under exposed. I also am wondering about getting a higher mesh screen. I'm going to be printing with white Jacquard ink on black and they say to use 156 mesh, but can I reduce it?

Thanks for any help.

Lisa

Sorry if the pictures are huge.



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sben763
Post a pic of your film. What LPI and angle your printing, mesh size, you using a rip or how are you converting to halftones.
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mimic
use a piece of glass or vacuum bag to get better contact between your film and screen during exposure

also 18 minutes is too long of an exposure especially with no glass in the way. How far away is your light?
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sben763
I am guessing why I want to see a pic of film it printed grayscale gradients instead of halftones.
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BroJames
I see the halftones. Looks like an overexposure with an excessive wash out pressure.
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L
I'll have to post a picture of the film after work.

I'm not sure of the lpi, is there a way I can find that on Corel Painter? I looked around, but didn't see it anywhere. It looks like halftones to me, but I don't really know much of anything about halftones. I do see small dots making up the design on film. He said he thinks the angle was 90. I don't have rip software. It looked like it was already halftones from Photoshop.

Does anyone know if the "glass" that comes in poster frames is UV resistant or not? That's probably my next option because I have a ton of poster frames. Do you mean vacuum bags like space bags? The light goes through that fine?

I rinsed it in the shower, let it sit for a couple minutes, then sprayed the shirt side with the shower head, for a pretty long time, but the top half of the circle rinsed out right away and the bottom half and half of the letters took longer to wash out.
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L
And the light is at 26.5" away, which is the diagonal of the screen.

Thanks for all of the replies. Does anyone think I need a higher mesh count?
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sben763
Ok so if you see dots your film has halftones. I don't print out of photo paint. Angle should be 22.5. Depending on mesh your LPI start out at 25- 55. I would try that on a 230 at 40 LPI at 22.5 angle. I still like to see your film

If 156 your LPI would be 30.
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ScreenFoo
There are a lot of light areas on the screen that didn't wash out--looks to me like an LPI that's too high for your screen or very poor positive contact.

A higher mesh count would help--a dyed mesh would help immensely. Good positive contact will help as well. Still won't matter much if you're trying to shoot an 80 LPI half tone though...
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mimic
lbridenstine said:
I'll have to post a picture of the film after work.

I'm not sure of the lpi, is there a way I can find that on Corel Painter? I looked around, but didn't see it anywhere. It looks like halftones to me, but I don't really know much of anything about halftones. I do see small dots making up the design on film. He said he thinks the angle was 90. I don't have rip software. It looked like it was already halftones from Photoshop.

Does anyone know if the "glass" that comes in poster frames is UV resistant or not? That's probably my next option because I have a ton of poster frames. Do you mean vacuum bags like space bags? The light goes through that fine?

I rinsed it in the shower, let it sit for a couple minutes, then sprayed the shirt side with the shower head, for a pretty long time, but the top half of the circle rinsed out right away and the bottom half and half of the letters took longer to wash out.
Click to expand...

The reason the middle washed out and the edges did not is because finer details need better contact.

Dont worry about the UV glass thing right now. Regular poster frame glass is better than nothing. Yes, you can use a space saver bag.
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L
Alright, so higher mesh, is yellow good? I'll see what I can do about figuring out the lpi, shorter exposure (?) and glass. (and I'll still post a picture of the film positive later today)

Does it sound like there's anything wrong with how I'm washing the screen out? There should be some details in the top half of the circle, but that all washed away pretty quickly. I'm just using a normal shower head, I can adjust it to a different setting if that helps at all. Or is it more likely that the dots are too small for the screen?

Can I use white water based ink on a higher mesh count? It says to dilute with water if needed on the jar, I don't know if that will change the opacity or anything though. They make an extender too (is that what I should be looking for?) but I haven't figured out where to get it yet.

I looked up accurip, because I was considering just doing the free trial, but under supported epsons, neither of mine are listed (because I have photo printers), does that mean it absolutely won't work or it's just not recommended?

Thanks everyone!
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InkedApparel
all the suggestions in my opinion are right on the mark. halftones are a whole different animal than block type or solid images.....it will be difficult but not impossible with your setup, be prepared for alot of trial and error.

I would cut your burn time down almost in half, 21 minutes is way to long for haltones, start at 11 - 14 minutes and get a garden hose to washout the screen. looking at the images you have here , I would start out with a lpi at 35 if you get a 230 mesh then 40 would be the highest I would go.

Inked
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L
A garden hose with or without a spray nozzle? Should I rinse it and let it sit for a couple minutes in the bathtub with the lights off before taking it outside? And is the emulsion bad for grass and plants?

Also, does it matter which side of the scoop coater I use?

Is there any rip software out there that isn't hundreds of dollars? I plan on printing shirts and patches for local bands in the future (after I get it all working correctly), but I know I won't be making enough from that to justify spending $500 on software. I could do trial versions for now, but that won't help me out later.
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sben763
lbridenstine said:
Alright, so higher mesh, is yellow good? I'll see what I can do about figuring out the lpi, shorter exposure (?) and glass. (and I'll still post a picture of the film positive later today)

Does it sound like there's anything wrong with how I'm washing the screen out? There should be some details in the top half of the circle, but that all washed away pretty quickly. I'm just using a normal shower head, I can adjust it to a different setting if that helps at all. Or is it more likely that the dots are too small for the screen?

Can I use white water based ink on a higher mesh count? It says to dilute with water if needed on the jar, I don't know if that will change the opacity or anything though. They make an extender too (is that what I should be looking for?) but I haven't figured out where to get it yet.

I looked up accurip, because I was considering just doing the free trial, but under supported epsons, neither of mine are listed (because I have photo printers), does that mean it absolutely won't work or it's just not recommended?

Thanks everyone!
Click to expand...
Yellow mesh is usally anything over 156 but i have some yellow 156. 230 mesh at 35-40 LPI is the range I would use.
Which printer do you have? you cant use anything not listed as accurip wouldnt know how to make the printer work. Look and see if Filmmaker DTP supports your printer. They also have a trial.
After reprinting your film and making proper contact when exposing wet screen down both sides and let sit 3 min then gently wash out shirt side. you can rinse print side but NO pressure.
You say a shower head is it the wand type? depending on your houses water pressure that may work fine
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ScreenFoo
Dyed mesh is available in low counts, but can be difficult to find. 86 mesh is the only count I run undyed...

160 yellow mesh should be able to hold 35 LPI pretty easily with good positive contact.

As far as ink goes, many plastisol whites will print fine up to 305 mesh.
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L
sben763 said:
Yellow mesh is usally anything over 156 but i have some yellow 156. 230 mesh at 35-40 LPI is the range I would use.
Which printer do you have? you cant use anything not listed as accurip wouldnt know how to make the printer work. Look and see if Filmmaker DTP supports your printer. They also have a trial.
After reprinting your film and making proper contact when exposing wet screen down both sides and let sit 3 min then gently wash out shirt side. you can rinse print side but NO pressure.
You say a shower head is it the wand type? depending on your houses water pressure that may work fine
Click to expand...

I have an Epson R380 (stylus, I think?) and Artisan 710. They're both just photo printers that go up to 8.5 x 14 (but I couldn't find film that dimension). I have an option in Painter to print as Postscript or Separations, I've been using postscript but I was wondering if separations would make any difference.

I should probably mention I use a Mac. I looked up Filmmaker DTP and it looks like it might be Windows only. I noticed Corel Draw is too. I might end up doing a Photoshop trial if I can't find anything else. There's is 30 days, at least, but I'd still like to have something for the future.

It is a wand type shower head, it's not that much pressure I wouldn't think, and we have soft water if that matters. I was thinking with other people using pressure washers for theirs, that the shower would be inadequate if anything.
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sben763
Photoshop CS5 doesnt have a way to change LPI or angle they took the screen button out. I ran parellels on my Mac and ran windows. If your willing to send file to me PM me. I will make the file with correct printing so you can print out of any program. There are plenty of places that sell 8.5x11 or 8.5x14 Ryonet, Fixxons just to name a few. I have a artisan 800 so I can test how it will print with no rip and a converted file with proper sized halftones. all you have to do is tell me mesh you have.
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L
sben763 said:
Photoshop CS5 doesnt have a way to change LPI or angle they took the screen button out. I ran parellels on my Mac and ran windows. If your willing to send file to me PM me. I will make the file with correct printing so you can print out of any program. There are plenty of places that sell 8.5x11 or 8.5x14 Ryonet, Fixxons just to name a few. I have a artisan 800 so I can test how it will print with no rip and a converted file with proper sized halftones. all you have to do is tell me mesh you have.
Click to expand...
Oh, weird. I wonder why they took it out.

I have the 8.5 x 11's by Fixxons, I just haven't seen the 8.5 x 14's. That could have made it two pages to line up instead of four. I'll see if I can find some.

That would be great, thank you! I'll send you a message. You don't have to print it, but if you could just adjust the lpi to something that would work and let me know which mesh count would be best, that would be really helpful.
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InkedApparel
Photoshop CS5 doesnt have a way to change LPI or angle they took the screen button out.
Click to expand...
I cant for the life of me figure out why Adobe would do that.anyone have an idea as to why Adobe would do this?

Inked
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BroJames
yellow mesh is definitely better but it won't solve whatever problem you are having right now. I strongly suggest finding out what the problem is right now and save the yellow mesh for later. It is nice but not a necessity.

I would suggest

1) lower your 500w halogens to about 18-20 inches. I've used 500w halogens for a while with height of 18-30 inches or so. 5 minute can give you a workable exposure. By that, I mean you can get an exposure that you can use although it won't be the most durable. I use mostly SBQ emulsion so time may vary with the type of emulsion you have. 5 minutes at 18" is still an underexposure. The ideal exposure time should be about 11 minutes so you have a 6 minute spread (5-11min) to work with. I still think you have an overexposure so start with 5 minutes at 18" or so. Print 5-10 small images that has the same halftones that you have and do a step wedge with these images.

2) What are your printer settings? You can use photo or best photo. Some people claim that text settings give them the "blackest" result. Only text settings(others say even text and graphics) will print all black and any settings with photo will print from all cartridges. I've always wanted to test this but cannot confirm it at the moment this though. Anyway, make the paper settings either matte or glossy, premium glossy, etc. Also adjust the contrast and saturation to make the image darker.
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