[Fidel]

See link - decalfx.com/performance_logos_g.html
I have seen a lot of similar sites lately, so tell me, how do they legally sell a trademarked vinyl logo?
It's the same as if I heat press it on a shirt and sell isn't it?
I highly doubt they have the permission from all of those companies...

 

[kimura-mma]

how do they legally sell a trademarked vinyl logo?

To legally sell them, they are either a licensed dealer/distributor or purchase them from a licensed dealer/distributor. If the logos are being produced and sold without license or authorization, then it is infringement. They have a disclaimer on their site, but I doubt that will absolve them of responsibility if they were sued.

It's the same as if I heat press it on a shirt and sell isn't it?

Correct. To legally produce and sell a t-shirt with a trademarked logo, you would need a license or purchase them from a licensee.

I highly doubt they have the permission from all of those companies...

It's possible that they don't.

But it seems like all of the logos on the site are associated with the motorsports industry. So it's possible there are licensing/branding companies that manage the usage of these logos within this industry (maybe even specifically for vinyl decals). If that's the case, then one license can result in the rights to use dozens or hundreds of logos. Do that a few times over and a company can acquire rights to thousands of logos.

It may not be as difficult or expensive to do as it seems. However, usage on t-shirts would probably be different. T-shirts are a different merchandising deal than decals.

 

[freebird1963]

If your wondering if they are legal why not contact them rather than a forum that really has no way of knowing and can only assume. ?
If I was that company and saw that you posted a comment saying we were probably doing illegal stuff I'd come after you for defaming/slander/etc.

Sounded in your post more like you were wondering if you could get away with it for tshirts.

 

[taricp35]

Mark made a good point. My question to the poster is why does it matter what another company is doing? Run your business and let them run theirs. If what they are doing is illegal they will get what is coming to them. But from just looking at a site their is no way anyone cal tell if they are authorized or not we can only speculate. Is it that you want to do the same?

 

[Nancy G]

To legally sell them, they are either a licensed dealer/distributor or purchase them from a licensed dealer/distributor. If the logos are being produced and sold without license or authorization, then it is infringement. They have a disclaimer on their site, but I doubt that will absolve them of responsibility if they were sued.


Correct. To legally produce and sell a t-shirt with a trademarked logo, you would need a license or purchase them from a licensee.


It's possible that they don't.

But it seems like all of the logos on the site are associated with the motorsports industry. So it's possible there are licensing/branding companies that manage the usage of these logos within this industry (maybe even specifically for vinyl decals). If that's the case, then one license can result in the rights to use dozens or hundreds of logos. Do that a few times over and a company can acquire rights to thousands of logos.

It may not be as difficult or expensive to do as it seems. However, usage on t-shirts would probably be different. T-shirts are a different merchandising deal than decals.

Sorry Tim, I'm still in research mode.... Why is it different for a decal than a T shirt? Isn't making $ off someone wrong , no matter the mode? NOt that I'm looking to do that, but want to understand from the "Pro'.
(and how do I just quote the part of a response I want?)
Thanks, N

 

[kimura-mma]

Sorry Tim, I'm still in research mode.... Why is it different for a decal than a T shirt? Isn't making $ off someone wrong , no matter the mode? NOt that I'm looking to do that, but want to understand from the "Pro'.

Yes, infringement is infringement regardless of whether it is on a decal or a t-shirt. The difference I was referring to was in regards to licensing. IP owners typically offer different deals for different applications. IMO, t-shirts are a much bigger deal than decals. It seems as if the decals on that site are made for use on competition cars. Sure, fans can buy them too and apply them to their personal cars. But I'd imagine the retail value of these decals is not that high. Where t-shirts on the other hand, have much higher retail value and therefore will be a much different licensing deal. It's probably a lot easier and cheaper to get a decal license than a t-shirt license.

 

[Nancy G]

Thanks. How do you get any work done responding to all..???
Go help someone else now, I'm done for today.
N

 

[IYFGraphics]

(and how do I just quote the part of a response I want?)

Nancy to answer the other part of your question about quoting, just edit the text your quoting to get the sentence or paragraph you want to quote, you can highlight and hit delete, it may be necessary to add the bracketed quote with a forward slash to get it right.

It's easy, bad thing is that you can also add comments to a quote to make it look like the person your quoting said something completely different like this.

Tim, is the last word in Copyrights and Trademarks!

Hope this helps.

 

[oracle1]

If its a small operator, you can send a cease and desist letter. Most Big operators wont run the risk of being sued.

 

[Fidel]

If your wondering if they are legal why not contact them rather than a forum that really has no way of knowing and can only assume. ?
If I was that company and saw that you posted a comment saying we were probably doing illegal stuff I'd come after you for defaming/slander/etc.

Sounded in your post more like you were wondering if you could get away with it for tshirts.

I have no intention on messing with their bussiness. This was just an example, there's tons of sites like this.
I don't want to make shirts with logos like that, but it is a little frustrating when you're trying to be legal in every detail an them come upon a site like this.
What had me wondering most was the idea of theoretically contacting each and every company asking for their consent - that was clarified by Tim.

This is what I found in the copyright info of a different site (they offer Puma, Barbie, etc. vinyl logos)

All materials published on this website are copyrighted. Products and services listed on the site, information about them and their images may be protected by other rights of individuals. Names and designations of products, services, companies, and corporations may be registered trademarks of their respective owners. WARNING! All logos are trademarks of companies or products and are their exclusive property. The purchase of these goods can not be considered a trademark property for the buyer. Ownership of registered trademarks is not transferable and purchasing these goods does not automatically entitle to trademark use.

Pretty much makes no sense to me (in regards to what they're doing).

This is also interesting (from above site):

Some of the logos included on this site are the trademarks or registered trademarks of their respective companies and are provided as a convenience only for their lawful use. It is the expressed intent of xyz.com that any unauthorized use of these items by the purchaser shall be the sole responsibility of the purchaser. The purchase of any item from xyz.com is not authorization for the use of any specific logo or trademark. By purchasing said logos, you are indicating that you have authority to use the artwork.

What I think they're saying is, if you come to our shop (let's pretend there's no web site) and want and XYZ logo, we'll cut it for you, but you agree that you have the authority to use it. The shop isn't obligated to check who's logo it is, so they assume its the customer's.

Am I just making this more complicated or is my notion correct?

One more edit:
I remember back in the day it was legal to make copies of music/game/movie CDs, as in offering it as a service to someone. A customer brought an original Metallica CD to have a copy made for his own use, and the "CD burning company" made one, assuming that the customer had bought the original and has the right for a copy. Later the laws were changed, allowing you to make a copy only if you purchased the CD and the burner was you property. Thus making the service to copy illegal. But by that time burners were so cheap, the usual PC user was able to buy one, therefor making the service uninteresting.
The above seems to me like something similar.

 

[BroJames]

I agree with those who opined that it is a little unfair for the siteowners for others to jump to the conclusion that the stuff on their site is illegal especially if it is based on a personal doubt.

For sites or shops that sell stuffs with "infringed" trademarks or copyrighted materials, is it possible that they are either operating on a small scale to escape the trademark owner's interest and/or the trademark owners chose to turn a blind eye? I mean, they are still free advertisements and no harm is really done to the trademark owners. Putting the same trademark in a website, the owners are the ones having to pay the site either a monthly or yearly fee or for every click.

 

[Fidel]

I have no intention to damage any similar website. If any site is doing something wrong, let the justice system work, I'm not an internet cop. I also never said, they are doing it illegally, my first question was "how do they legally sell", I was assuming it is being done right the whole time. The "I highly doubt they have the permission from all of those companies" comment was formulated wrong by myself, what I meant to say was "I highly doubt they individually contacted each company", though it is possible of course.
I am asking these questions to learn, to gain knowledge about this topic, not to make fake Puma shirts, nor to contact vinyl cutting websites and make them stop or something.
Sorry if this wasn't clear.

 

[BroJames]

I have no intention to damage any similar website. If any site is doing something wrong, let the justice system work, I'm not an internet cop. I also never said, they are doing it illegally, my first question was "how do they legally sell", I was assuming it is being done right the whole time. The "I highly doubt they have the permission from all of those companies" comment was formulated wrong by myself, what I meant to say was "I highly doubt they individually contacted each company", though it is possible of course.
I am asking these questions to learn, to gain knowledge about this topic, not to make fake Puma shirts, nor to contact vinyl cutting websites and make them stop or something.
Sorry if this wasn't clear.

It is nice of you to clarify Paul. Sometimes I also post a little tactlessly or used the wrong word or is unclear in my wordings. That happens to all of us.

 

[kimura-mma]

This is what I found in the copyright info of a different site (they offer Puma, Barbie, etc. vinyl logos)

Pretty much makes no sense to me (in regards to what they're doing).

It has to do with the buyers usage of the logo. They are saying that purchasing a logo from them does not grant license to the buyer to use the logo. So it lends no info as to whether the company is licensed to produce or sell the logos in the first place.

This is also interesting (from above site):

What I think they're saying is, if you come to our shop (let's pretend there's no web site) and want and XYZ logo, we'll cut it for you, but you agree that you have the authority to use it. The shop isn't obligated to check who's logo it is, so they assume its the customer's.

Am I just making this more complicated or is my notion correct?

Yes, your notion seems to be correct. They are trying to push the legal responsibility on to the customer.

I remember back in the day it was legal to make copies of music/game/movie CDs, as in offering it as a service to someone. A customer brought an original Metallica CD to have a copy made for his own use, and the "CD burning company" made one, assuming that the customer had bought the original and has the right for a copy. Later the laws were changed, allowing you to make a copy only if you purchased the CD and the burner was you property. Thus making the service to copy illegal. But by that time burners were so cheap, the usual PC user was able to buy one, therefor making the service uninteresting.
The above seems to me like something similar.

Yeah, it's somewhat similar but there are differences. If you are in possession of the Metallica CD, the shop owner can make an informed assumption that you are the owner of the CD and purchased it legally. But if someone comes in wanting a decal of a common logo, the shop owner knows the logo is the property of the company and not some random customer. That's why it requires a license to legally produce and sell product that contains intellectual property.