T-Shirt Forums banner
1 - 17 of 17 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,

I am considering hiring some designers from Fiverr.com to design some T-Shirts. The only problem is I am concerned they could take the design and sell it themselves. Is their anything I can do to stop them? Or am I just being paranoid?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
58 Posts
I haven't used fiverr, but on most freelancing sites they'll have a basic contract, part of which protects you from that happening. And generally, most freelancers aren't going to want to do that for fear of ruining their reputation.
 

· Banned
Joined
·
574 Posts
It may take you time but in the long run worrying about this does little good. There is basically little you can do to stop it. You would spend more time and money trying to protect a design then you would make off the design. Just part of custom apparel unfortunately.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,678 Posts
Hi,

I am considering hiring some designers from Fiverr.com to design some T-Shirts. The only problem is I am concerned they could take the design and sell it themselves. Is their anything I can do to stop them? Or am I just being paranoid?

Yes they can, and they will probably do, because freelancers are not the same as Employees.
Freelancers are the copyright owners of the work. What you receive is a basically the permission to use it.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
What TABOB said. Here's an industry standard breakdown for working with freelance artists. I'd strongly recommend if you have questions on how the freelance art industry works, you grab a copy of the Graphic Artists Guild Guidelines.


Long story short, when you work with me as a designer, I do not ever sell you the design.

What your contract with me will clearly state is that I'm licensing the design to you, which means I'm giving you permission to use my intellectual property in a specific setting.That means, if I sell you a license to print an illustration on posters, you don't actually have the right to also use it for other products. So if you want to print it in magazines or on clothing, we need to write another contract and you'll need to pay for those rights. Even when I make art solely for your use, I won't sell you the rights. It says so explicitly in my contract that you're instead getting an exclusive license and that I'm retaining the rights and reserve the right to re-use elements of it for other things.

It's standard practice for designers and artists to retain the copyright for their work, which means if I ever turn around and sell the copyright for that artwork or another license to someone else, it's not theft and it's perfectly within my rights as the copyright holder to do so.

In most freelance art industries like illustration or apparel design it's actually factored into the costs of doing business. It's generally considered bad form to re-license a work without informing the previous client and giving them an opportunity to purchase the copyright to protect their interest and license, but almost all truly professional freelancers factor it into their business that they are going to re-use elements of prior art and modify it to speed up their process. Especially on Fiverr, if you dig through the artist's terms, you'll probably find that they charge extra for actual design files, and/or that you're just getting a license. A lot of times $5 on there just gets you a low-res .jpeg of the art that's not reproducible and you'll need to arrange terms with them for the full thing. Honestly, you probably won't find many of the really professional artists and designers on sites like Fiverr or Upwork, specifically because those sites have stock contracts that automatically take rights away from them like someone already mentioned.

Frankly, (and this is just my experience.) but any artist or designer who is willing to automatically sell you the rights to artwork without compensation for the loss of future revenue is almost certainly desperate or an amateur, and you're giving up getting good work in exchange for that. Really good, professional artists all generally go by some approximation of the Guild Guidelines. While most of use will negotiate on rights, you have to understand that if you want exclusive license or outright ownership of rights, you're going to pay "extra" for it, one way or the other.
 

· Administrator
Joined
·
18,546 Posts
Hi,

I am considering hiring some designers from Fiverr.com to design some T-Shirts. The only problem is I am concerned they could take the design and sell it themselves. Is their anything I can do to stop them? Or am I just being paranoid?
We understand you feel your designs are the greatest thing since the invention of sliced bread. That they will revolutionize life as we know it. That everyone will clamor for them. And that they will make you a billionaire.

We all have thought that of our designs.

But in reality, none of that will be the case. In fact, it hasn't been the case for any design, in the history of the world.

Designers have better things to do than to steal your precious designs.

And even if they, or anyone else who ever sees them, did-so what? Just do your thing, and fame and fortune will follow.

Designs are not what's going to make you successful. Ingenuity, marketing and sales are. I've seen great designs from companies who are now bankrupt and sh**ty designs from companies who are super successful.

If you don't want your designs stolen, either from your designer, customer, or website visitor, don't let anyone see them.
 

· Banned
Joined
·
574 Posts
I do agree with Splathead that you can have the greatest design/concept in the world and without professional sales experience they most likely will not be seen. With that said I 100% disagree with the statement inferring designers do not steal designs. They do it everyday. In Splatheads case he basically has a couple words as his "designs" - surely no one has an interest in stealing such but if you know your market and have a design that meets that market chances are over time you will have designs stolen. It is just part of the industry. Why do people steal designs? The people stealing designs are actually one step ahead of most people starting out in this business. The crooks understand that to be successful you have to have the mentality that you are selling art, not a t-shirt. It is the art/design on a t-shirt that will take you from a $12-15 shirt to a $25-29 shirt. If your mentality is you sell t-shirts you will most likely fail. The silver lining of having a design stolen is it is confirmation you understand your market to the point others are willing to break the law to obtain it.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,550 Posts
...

If you don't want your designs stolen, either from your designer, customer, or website visitor, don't let anyone see them.
Truth. I've had designs stolen from pretty much everyplace I have put them up for sale. There are people/organizations running scripts that harvest thousands of listings at a time--art, title, description, etc and re-upload it to other sites/marketplaces.

I did 23 takedowns on just one design on one site in two days.

To be clear, this is not because any of these designs are the best thing ever. It is because these criminals have found an easy, low effort, low risk, way to make money. They get take down notices and their account gets closed ... but they've already started up 10 more and have scripts filling them up with more stolen IP. Typically doing this via POD marketplaces, so they don't have to do any actual work of any kind other than running the scripts and starting new accounts.

Now and then I check a few places for copies of my best sellers, and submit takedowns. But these are mostly on sites I do not sell on myself, so different customer base and probably no actual loss to me. But I feel better making a little effort to stem the tide. YMMV
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,678 Posts
Designs are not what's going to make you successful. Ingenuity, marketing and sales are. I've seen great designs from companies who are now bankrupt and sh**ty designs from companies who are super successful.
Very true. The best sellng T-shirts from Nike, Lacoste and others, have just a logo on them. Other smaller brands, tend to focus on niches. O'Neill is one example...fairly basic designs but they do sell very well.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
Very true. The best sellng T-shirts from Nike, Lacoste and others, have just a logo on them. Other smaller brands, tend to focus on niches. O'Neill is one example...fairly basic designs but they do sell very well.

We do a huge chunk of the apparel design for Seafoam, Alumacraft and Lund Boats here. That's broadly true. The best sellers are typically the logo apparel, but I can for absolute sure say that our designers make their difference in that too through little things.

We treat the apparel design as part of the marketing because it's a lot easier to get people to buy a nice, clean horse than to put lipstick on a pig. Why bother dressing up something that sucks? You can just slap a logo onto a basic Gildan tee and it'll sell, but upgrade to a better ring-spun Alternative Apparel shirt and that design will fly off the shelves. That's how most of that stuff is selling. It's not just the logo. It's the custom-cut performance blank it's on too.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
What TABOB said. Here's an industry standard breakdown for working with freelance artists. I'd strongly recommend if you have questions on how the freelance art industry works, you grab a copy of the Graphic Artists Guild Guidelines.


Long story short, when you work with me as a designer, I do not ever sell you the design.

What your contract with me will clearly state is that I'm licensing the design to you, which means I'm giving you permission to use my intellectual property in a specific setting.That means, if I sell you a license to print an illustration on posters, you don't actually have the right to also use it for other products. So if you want to print it in magazines or on clothing, we need to write another contract and you'll need to pay for those rights. Even when I make art solely for your use, I won't sell you the rights. It says so explicitly in my contract that you're instead getting an exclusive license and that I'm retaining the rights and reserve the right to re-use elements of it for other things.

It's standard practice for designers and artists to retain the copyright for their work, which means if I ever turn around and sell the copyright for that artwork or another license to someone else, it's not theft and it's perfectly within my rights as the copyright holder to do so.

In most freelance art industries like illustration or apparel design it's actually factored into the costs of doing business. It's generally considered bad form to re-license a work without informing the previous client and giving them an opportunity to purchase the copyright to protect their interest and license, but almost all truly professional freelancers factor it into their business that they are going to re-use elements of prior art and modify it to speed up their process. Especially on Fiverr, if you dig through the artist's terms, you'll probably find that they charge extra for actual design files, and/or that you're just getting a license. A lot of times $5 on there just gets you a low-res .jpeg of the art that's not reproducible and you'll need to arrange terms with them for the full thing. Honestly, you probably won't find many of the really professional artists and designers on sites like Fiverr or Upwork, specifically because those sites have stock contracts that automatically take rights away from them like someone already mentioned.

Frankly, (and this is just my experience.) but any artist or designer who is willing to automatically sell you the rights to artwork without compensation for the loss of future revenue is almost certainly desperate or an amateur, and you're giving up getting good work in exchange for that. Really good, professional artists all generally go by some approximation of the Guild Guidelines. While most of use will negotiate on rights, you have to understand that if you want exclusive license or outright ownership of rights, you're going to pay "extra" for it, one way or the other.
WOW I had no idea that's how the industry worked! I'm glad I asked. Thank all of you for your comments!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
We understand you feel your designs are the greatest thing since the invention of sliced bread. That they will revolutionize life as we know it. That everyone will clamor for them. And that they will make you a billionaire.

We all have thought that of our designs.

But in reality, none of that will be the case. In fact, it hasn't been the case for any design, in the history of the world.

Designers have better things to do than to steal your precious designs.

And even if they, or anyone else who ever sees them, did-so what? Just do your thing, and fame and fortune will follow.

Designs are not what's going to make you successful. Ingenuity, marketing and sales are. I've seen great designs from companies who are now bankrupt and sh**ty designs from companies who are super successful.

If you don't want your designs stolen, either from your designer, customer, or website visitor, don't let anyone see them.
Very good point!
 

· Administrator
Joined
·
18,546 Posts
WOW I had no idea that's how the industry worked! I'm glad I asked. Thank all of you for your comments!

But it's not how Fiverr works. From their website:


Unless clearly stated otherwise on the seller's Gig page/description, when the work is delivered, and subject to payment, the buyer is granted all intellectual property rights, including but not limited to, copyrights for the work delivered from the seller, and the seller waives any and all moral rights therein.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,678 Posts
But it's not how Fiverr works. From their website:
Unless clearly stated otherwise on the seller's Gig page/description, when the work is delivered, and subject to payment, the buyer is granted all intellectual property rights, including but not limited to, copyrights for the work delivered from the seller, and the seller waives any and all moral rights therein.
Here comes the catch... Does it say "exclusive"? ;)
Also "granted" is not the same as "transferred".
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top