[opportunist123]

Hi All,

I know this forum is for garments but I'm looking for some information regarding another format which I believe people here would know about.

I've converted my small epson a4 inkjet printer into a flat bed printer. I plan to use it to print on ceramic tiles, plastics cards, cd's etc, and socks! I've recently ran a print on some foamex (a plastic like) product with normal dye ink and although the print isn't too too bad it still isn't perfect in the sense that it hasn't absorbed into the surface and can be wiped away.

I am looking for advise as to which would be the best type of ink / method to use for non-porous surfaces. I would require the finish to be durable, scratch resistant, alcohol/water resistant. Also flexible i.e. if I was to print on rubber I don't want the ink to crack when the rubber bends.

So far I have options of using UV led curable unit with uv curable ink.

Precoating of plastic and then printing with pigment ink.

Any others would be highly appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

 

[MrJohnson]

sublimation ink maybe?

 

[frankdoyal05]

you may try eco solvent ink, I use it in my Roland printer printing on vinyl. If you use epson printhead with piezo technology, you should just about print on anything. The ink is most like an oil base ink..

 

[Sacman]

To add to my notes on the other thread, I have 3 different coatings from my supplier in China. I have one specifically formulated for Plastic, one for Ceramic/Glass, and one General Purpose. They are all very different. The Glass/Ceramic one requires an additive mixed in with it that activates it. The general purpose one tends to blow little cobwebby things all over my shop. Only the plastic coating works on plastic. The other two show a noticeable shift in colors that is completely uncontrollable. Sometimes there is a slight shift to red, sometimes it shifts to green and sometimes no shift at all. I found this out through a lot of errors on my part.

I have used the Glass coating successfully on ceramic tiles. The result is beautiful as long as you get the coating smooth. This was early on learning how to use the spray gun so mine sometimes had air pockets in it. I have used the general purpose coating on clay poker chips with awesome results.

With all of these coatings you have to be prepared for some color adjustment. They all tend to shift towards red on my R230. I have to add a lot of blue to get it to match on screen colors. This is without a calibrated monitor but...

The coatings are all scratch resistant, waterproof and UV resistant. However, they will all come off with alcohol. If you let the finished product sit for a week or so, you can spray it with Water based Acrylic like Minwax or even with Crystal clear and it will make it alcohol proof. The nice thing about not being proof against alcohol is that I can recover about 99% of my scrap. It takes a lot of work but it is worth it.I have never tested the actual time you have to wait but I know that only 2 days is not enough. I tried this last week after two days and it was a train wreck.

Try inkaid II !!!!

Wade

 

[jgabby]

You could have a look to sepiax ink. But not sure it is compatible with your printhead

 

[opportunist123]

You could have a look to sepiax ink. But not sure it is compatible with your printhead

I use a epson xp215 with micro piezo printhead, that may be ok for sepiax.... but the only issue is that the media has to be pre-heated to around 50 odd degrees, surely if I was printing on plastic like ID cards they would melt or at least start to bow.

you may try eco solvent ink, I use it in my Roland printer printing on vinyl. If you use epson printhead with piezo technology, you should just about print on anything. The ink is most like an oil base ink..

eco solvent doesn't seem like an affordable option they are just way to expensive. Plus I don't see any eco-solvents for my printer, they all seem to be for dx4, dx5, dx6 printheads Im not sure if mine is one of those, I have a micro piezo printhead its an epson xp-215 :s

 

[Sacman]

To go with the other thread. My R230 printer does not use one of the high end print heads and I use eco-solvent. Talk to Cassie about it. I really don't think you will have a problem. Cyan is the worst of the bunch and I have finally figured out how to keep that from clogging. Buy just 10mL of each directly from Magnetic and see if it works. That is one small bottle and it is more ink than you think.

I bought 1L of each of my 6 colors back in October. I have printed over 60,000 blocks on all 6 sides and still have 30-40 mL of each color left and I have dumped a completely full waste ink bottle that is 10ml at least 5 times. That's the equivalent of over 2,000 full page prints and I have wasted a lot of ink during the learning process.

 

[frankdoyal05]

actually eco solvent ink is cheaper if you have a bulk system... I pay less than $40.00 for a 1000ml which is about = 1qrt and it goes a long way..

 

[opportunist123]

actually eco solvent ink is cheaper if you have a bulk system... I pay less than $40.00 for a 1000ml which is about = 1qrt and it goes a long way..

Hi, do you have a link for where you purchase yours from?

Thanks.

 

[frankdoyal05]

Here is the link for the eco solvent ink [email protected]
or High quality water based ink,Large format Printer,Printer spare parts wholesaler & manufacturers

 

[opportunist123]

Try inkaid II !!!!

Wade

Hey Wade,

I've ordered the inkaid type 2 from a local dealer in UK. Should be with me in next few days so I will let you know how it performs however I have already found a downside to it.

After purchase I realized its not waterproof! so if were to use this as a precoat I would require another coat after print to keep it waterproof, now that sucks as I'm trying to eliminate the need for buying extra products. Thankfully I ordered a small 230ml bottle for testing, so no harm done.

By the way how much does Cassie quote the ink price to you for? I'm getting quoted at $80 which is like double what other people are quoting.

Here is the link for the eco solvent ink [email protected]
or High quality water based ink,Large format Printer,Printer spare parts wholesaler & manufacturers

Thanks for the link mate. Appreciate your help.

I've tried contacting them their communication is really poor tried email and skype...still waiting to hear from these guys but the price seems good.

You think it will be ok with my Epson Micro Piezo printhead? Also do you apply any precoat or after coat to make the print bond and stay durable?

Thanks.

 

[Sacman]

I actually just read that about the InkAid yesterday. I didn't realize that either. I was going to buy some to try and read it through one more time before I actually pulled the trigger. That would be a problem for me as well. However, I believe that the ink itself might prove to be water proof. I think I remember reading that somewhere. Let me know what you find.

As far as the quote from Cassie, that does seem high. I will need to dig up my invoice to find out what I paid but I seem to remember around the $30/L price. I could be wrong. However, I just contacted her a couple of days ago about getting more. I am almost out of yellow. She said that if I can find a local supplier I would be fine. So I found some on Ebay that is not a bad price. Here is a link to the same supplier through ebay.uk: eco solvent ink | eBay

Its the third one down the page.

I'll also answer for Frank. I tried the link as well. Their website is pretty crappy. It is also a Chinese supplier. It won't matter where you get the ink. It will all require the precoat. Also, most ink will tell it is compatible with the higher end Epson heads but nothing about the low end ones. My printer doesn't use the high end ones either and I don't have any problems with it.

 

[opportunist123]

Completed the test with InkAid type 2 today. Surface = pvc, Ink= pigment/dye

Firstly to clarify I used black pigment ink and left my other 3 as standard dye ink as I was only testing the black ink for particular purpose.

As far as quality of image is concerned it gets 5 stars, nice crisp clear glossy finish. Good bond of ink to the coat too considering 3 of the inks are dye ink. That's about the only good thing I can think of and having said that I guess all coatings provide a nice glossy finish.

Bad Points = Its been over 3 hours since I printed on the pvc sheet and if I slide my finger firmly across the print the ink is still smearing a little bit. I'll check again tomorrow morning to see if it heals any better.

Scratch resistance seems poor, its a bit like a layer of glue and I can scrape it off, 5 or 6 light strokes from a nail do create a disruption in the print.

And yes worst of all...not water proof!

They do offer a adhesive primer which could improve the bond I guess but you will still need to buy a after print coat to make it water proof. So that's like 3 products which is no good for me as I'm trying to bring costs down. In my opinion I wouldn't recommended on products where wear and tear is expected (like your model blocks wade), if your going to print on something and hang it up etc then it will do just fine for you.

By the way wade, why did Cassie telling you to use a different supplier? I think the $30 your referring to is the precoat cost, she quoted me $30 for that too, but the ink was $80. I have found another supplier from china, 1 litre precoat is like $13 and eco-solvent ink is $45. The quality of their prints seems really impressive watched their videos on youtube.

Bad points

 

[Sacman]

Good info about the InkAid.

Here are a couple of followup points. Even my coating is not immediately scratch proof. after I print, it needs at least 24 hours to resist modest scratching. It takes about a week before I can apply a top coat if I want one without leaching color. I have never tested that exactly but I know that 3 days is not enough.

Part of the problem you are having might be with the ink itself. As I understand it, the solvent based ink actually eats into the coating to form a more permanent bond. It also dries very rapidly to at least a touch point. Maybe some one else can clarify this. Redo your test after you get eco solvent ink and see what happens.

I just checked the invoice and I did pay $85/L for my ink. I asked about a local supplier because I can get it much faster no other reason. Now that I look at it, the local link I posted is $69 for me with free shipping. That is a much better deal than getting it through Cassie. I will be buying some yellow soon and slowly transition everything over as I run out.

 

[golinux]

Good info about the InkAid.

I just checked the invoice and I did pay $85/L for my ink. I asked about a local supplier because I can get it much faster no other reason. Now that I look at it, the local link I posted is $69 for me with free shipping. That is a much better deal than getting it through Cassie. I will be buying some yellow soon and slowly transition everything over as I run out.

Ecosolvent is not compatible with Epson desktop printer.

If I use normal pigment ink for Epson, could I protect if after the print with some
transparent spay, like varnish, hair spay

I would like to print on some gadget like, pens, lighter, forex, pvc like in this video:

Yoursse - Your Super Search Engine - Watch and download YouTube video without advertising

 

[martyw]

Ecosolvent is not compatible with Epson desktop printer.

If I use normal pigment ink for Epson, could I protect if after the print with some
transparent spay, like varnish, hair spay

I would like to print on some gadget like, pens, lighter, forex, pvc like in this video:

Yoursse - Your Super Search Engine - Watch and download YouTube video without advertising

Hi,
I think that if you want to print on hard items you would be better off using a sublimation clear coat and then using the sublimation method to transfer your images.
Regards Marty

 

[golinux]

What do you mean with "sublimation method to tranfer your images"?

maybe like in this video:

Yoursse - Your Super Search Engine - Watch and download YouTube video without advertising

I don't want use tranfer paper for normal printers, if I have a DTG flat printer.
It is not userfull with small gadgets like pens, lighter, ecc.

 

[martyw]

What do you mean with "sublimation method to tranfer your images"?

maybe like in this video:

Yoursse - Your Super Search Engine - Watch and download YouTube video without advertising

I don't want use tranfer paper for normal printers, if I have a DTG flat printer.
It is not userfull with small gadgets like pens, lighter, ecc.

Sorry should have watched the video first. Yes this is the method I was suggesting, once the coating is dry, tape the image to what ever you want and press upside down so that the foam on your heat press pushes the image tightly to the object.
Regards Marty

 

[Sacman]

Ecosolvent is not compatible with Epson desktop printer.

Absolutely false. My printer is based off of an R230 and I use EcoSolvent ink every day.

I would also like to address sublimation printing for hard surfaces. I tried this method early on in my Minecraft Block project. While it worked and made for a very nice finished product, I had several major issues.

First, Hard Surface paper is expensive.

Second, Generally speaking it comes in two sizes 8.5 x 11 and 11 x 17 (A3 and A4 for you European types). This makes it very limiting as well. Having the convenience of a flat bed printer would help but there is a problem with sheet yield. For example, if he wanted to print on 5 pens. He would have to print the design for these five pens on a full size piece of paper. If you are using a a standard printer this produces a ton of waste. The counter argument here is going to be don't print until you have a full sheet's worth of product to print. But this is quite often not possible. If you are using the flat bed, you can certainly use the scraps to get the best yield but this could be challenging.

Next comes the issue of heat pressing. I know from experience that aligning the paper to the product is very difficult. In my case this alignment issue resulted in me rejecting this as a viable option. I have to have accurate alignment within .5mm. Does he have to press each pen individually? I suppose he could make a fixture to print 5 at a time but what if he needs 7 or 9 or 12. On a flat bed printer, all of these become non-issues. You could even tape them to the flat bed and off you go. Whenever I have to print something new, I cover it in Painters blue tape and print on that to get my alignment right remove the tape and print away. By using the Blue tape method, I very seldom get rejects. If you are trying to tape a piece of paper to an item that is small you are going to constantly have alignment issues. You can have fixtures made that will hold your items in place but those can get expensive depending on what you are doing. Using the heat press method for anything other than tiles or mugs or iPhone cases is going to potentially produce a lot of rejects as you figure these things out. I have never printed an iPhone case on my printer but I have 100% confidence that if I bought a single blank today, I would get a perfect end result on the first try with my printer. I have 0% confidence that I could do the same with the heat press method.

 

[camposz]

Absolutely false. My printer is based off of an R230 and I use EcoSolvent ink every day.

I would also like to address sublimation printing for hard surfaces. I tried this method early on in my Minecraft Block project. While it worked and made for a very nice finished product, I had several major issues.

First, Hard Surface paper is expensive.

Second, Generally speaking it comes in two sizes 8.5 x 11 and 11 x 17 (A3 and A4 for you European types). This makes it very limiting as well. Having the convenience of a flat bed printer would help but there is a problem with sheet yield. For example, if he wanted to print on 5 pens. He would have to print the design for these five pens on a full size piece of paper. If you are using a a standard printer this produces a ton of waste. The counter argument here is going to be don't print until you have a full sheet's worth of product to print. But this is quite often not possible. If you are using the flat bed, you can certainly use the scraps to get the best yield but this could be challenging.

Next comes the issue of heat pressing. I know from experience that aligning the paper to the product is very difficult. In my case this alignment issue resulted in me rejecting this as a viable option. I have to have accurate alignment within .5mm. Does he have to press each pen individually? I suppose he could make a fixture to print 5 at a time but what if he needs 7 or 9 or 12. On a flat bed printer, all of these become non-issues. You could even tape them to the flat bed and off you go. Whenever I have to print something new, I cover it in Painters blue tape and print on that to get my alignment right remove the tape and print away. By using the Blue tape method, I very seldom get rejects. If you are trying to tape a piece of paper to an item that is small you are going to constantly have alignment issues. You can have fixtures made that will hold your items in place but those can get expensive depending on what you are doing. Using the heat press method for anything other than tiles or mugs or iPhone cases is going to potentially produce a lot of rejects as you figure these things out. I have never printed an iPhone case on my printer but I have 100% confidence that if I bought a single blank today, I would get a perfect end result on the first try with my printer. I have 0% confidence that I could do the same with the heat press method.

I would like to know your brand and supplier of ink ecosolvente, thanks