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Discussion Starter #1
Hello fellow subbers,

Beaver sent me their new dye sub Thermo Tack paper to try. It has a light adhesive on it that eliminates ghosting. The adhesive in no way affects the print.

I tested out the paper and found that it does indeed work as described. (It also helps to pre-shrink materials first as well as some do shrink).

Thought I'd pass this along to the folks out there that may have ghosting problems and are using tapes/repositionable spray adhesive. This is a much better way to go and the price seems the same as reg. dye sub paper.
 

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I've used this paper for almost 2 years and have little problem with it. What I do find is that the tack seems to disappear at less than suggested printing and transferring temperatures.

What I mean by this is Beaver suggests that the paper be kept at 70 degrees + 50% humidity at all time for optimum results. I've found if not kept near their suggested temp, the tack goes completely away.

Also, for fabrics, jerseys, shirts, the paper is great. I wouldn't suggest it for metal (i.e. Chromaluxe).
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yes, I suppose it's a pretty tricky thing getting just the right amount of tackiness without glueing the fabric to the paper!

I think it's a great product though.

Sometimes I press a ready-to-wear tee like Vapor November White, for example in the larger press. I place the entire tee in there if I do a large design and was having horrible ghosting.

I measured the shirt before and after pressing and it had shrunk 1/2 inch in length. No wonder I had ghosting! heh heh. Anyway, after a pre-shrink, pre-press, there is no issue. But the paper is still cool.
 

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Yes, I suppose it's a pretty tricky thing getting just the right amount of tackiness without glueing the fabric to the paper!

I think it's a great product though.

Sometimes I press a ready-to-wear tee like Vapor November White, for example in the larger press. I place the entire tee in there if I do a large design and was having horrible ghosting.

I measured the shirt before and after pressing and it had shrunk 1/2 inch in length. No wonder I had ghosting! heh heh. Anyway, after a pre-shrink, pre-press, there is no issue. But the paper is still cool.
Susie

We seldom press pre mades but unfortunately have to do 30 for a client as a favor. How long do you prepress to get the shrinkage out?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Hi guys,
No, Mark, it does not affect rollers or any part of the printer (in my two weeks of use:)

And (oh, two Marks!) heh heh. I pre-press for the same length of time that I intend to use for the printing dwell time. Normally one minute. Sometimes a smidgey longer for very large prints. My theory is, if you don't pre-press long enough, some residual shrinkage will still occur in the longer printing dwell time.

Yes, I agree, I don't like to press the whole shirt in there either - comes out flat as a pancake and permanently ironed - which might be a good thing! Probably the only time a bunch of guys will have ironed t-shirts in their lives!

I always believed in the past, that polyester shrinkage was not a concern, but it does indeed shrink, especially the knits. I was very surprised to see by how much.

I have been testing out my theory that ghosting comes from shrinkage. I thought it was from paper movement from suction. I always opened the press ever so slowly. But I tried it on preshrunk tees, just opened the press normally without being careful at all and I had no ghosting whatsoever - even without tacky paper.

I just pressed a gigantic wedding dress. I pre-shrunk all the fabric and then printed on normal, non-tacky paper. You'd think ghosting would be bad with a slippery silk-like shiny fabric, but there was no ghosting at all. So I'm fairly convinced - ghosting has become a thing of the past with pre-shrinking.

It would be interesting to hear from users with smaller presses, if pre-shrinking works for that too. Ironically, less ghosting seems to occur in smaller machines, as less fabric is exposed to the heat.

I believe it works like a steam iron, which in sewing, we use specifically to shrink areas of a garment, such as a sleeve cap. When the ink turns to a gas, there is a certain amount of steam vapor and in tandem with heat, causes the shrinkage. Less vapor, less shrinkage - that's why you don't notice shrinkage in a smaller press.

Anyhoop, that's my take on the whole thing!
 

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Hi guys,
It would be interesting to hear from users with smaller presses, if pre-shrinking works for that too. Ironically, less ghosting seems to occur in smaller machines, as less fabric is exposed to the heat.
Susie, I have both a Maxi-Press and a Hotronix Swinger. Yes, pre-shrinking works on the Swinger just as it does on the Maxi. However, with regards to the ghosting, I've found that because the heat platen of the Swinger is only a couple of inches off of the base platen, it keeps the base at the same temp that you are pressing at. Therefore, you are laying your shirt or material down, pre-shrinking, releasing, then by the time you lay your paper down, the product is almost overheated thus causing a slight shift in the paper when the heat platen comes down despite the paper being tacky. On the Maxi, the heat platen sits up after the pre-shrink which I think allows the material to cool down and accept the tacky paper at a more optimum air temp (according to Beaver) before the heat platen comes down and hits your shirt or material.

Since I got my Maxi, I use it almost exclusively for transferring. I'm only using my Swinger for two specific purposes, one of which is transferring happening on it is aluminum stock (the only thing I transfer on my Swinger) where ironically, I've found no problems with the issue I mentioned above.

Hope that all made sense...
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I suppose I should have mentioned I always remove the fabric and allow it to cool almost completely before re-pressing. It won't cool very fast even when you pull the base out and it takes too long. I haven't experimented much with smaller presses, Marcelo, but it's good to hear your feedback. I believe the fabric needs to stabilize again before submitting it to that abuse once more.

I see what you mean about the Swinger base being warm all the time. My smaller press has a rubbery pad that retains heat very well. Whereas the maxi base doesn't keep that much heat in as far as I can tell.
 

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Like you, I find that the Nomex pad on the Maxi doesn't retain heat the way the pad on the Swinger does. I never remove my product from the Maxi after pre-shrink and have had no problems with it.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I mostly work with very fine knits, sheers and china silks and they seem to get very hot compared to some other fabrics and I feel I should allow them to stabilize again. I don't know if it makes a lot of difference at the end of the day. The other reason is that sometimes I press with the fabric on top and the paper on the bottom, so I have to take it out anyway. And sometimes I press the other way round.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
That was a very interesting job actually! It's nice to step outside of the ordinary once in a while and shake things up a bit! Kudos to the designer, though - it's going to be absolutely smashing!
 
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