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Discussion Starter #41
Those Epson prices seem high (if I am to believe RipPro), but we haven't done a back-to-back comparison, and maybe we're using different resolution settings. Also, I guess you have to factor in the cost of the direct to garment printer (Brother>>Epson), as well as larger/smaller bottles of ink. I suppose the pre-treatment is a wash.

Volume, volume, volume, eh? :)

Thanks for the analysis. That's very good information.
 

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Taken from my diary post turns out it is soemtimes way more than twice as much.

Ok here are some examples of the same file printed at the same size on the 782 as well as my Epson based DTG with Dupont bagged inks at Belquette liter pricing. Print was done on green shirt with black ink. Brother white settings of 3,1. Epson white ink layer slider set at default of 50 in RIP, and ink output levels of 100 on all three white channels, and all cmyk channels.

Great Dane Graphics exploding baseball design @ 12x12 90%+ coverage:

Epson - 9.02ml of white ink @ .28 per ml = $2.52 1.55ml of cmyk @.28ml = $0.43 Total = $2.95

Brother - 4.19ml of white ink @ .45 per ml = $1.88 .78ml of cmyk @.60ml = $0.47 Total = $2.66

Hmmmmm rather interesting. The dupont ink is much cheaper, but uses waaaay more. Once we factor in waste however, the Brother becomes more expensive.

The Negative Camber car design was provided by Graphic Disorder A big thanks to them for allowing me to share this.

This file was printed @ 12"x14" on a black shirt, with no black ink from either printer. Same settings as previous example.

Epson - white ink 5.87ml or $1.64 cmyk ink 1.86ml or $0.52 Total = $2.16

Brother - white ink 2.31ml or $1.04 cmyk ink .35ml or $0.21 Total = $1.25

The big difference in the Brother CMYK price is its use of the white in low volume to create the grays, were the Epson mixes CMYK to accomplish the greys.
At what resolution were the Epson based prints printed at?
 

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Where does that number come from? Cafe Press uses Epson direct to garment printing systems.
Yes, they use the mod 1 printers and since they are undoubtedly the largest print on demand company their ink volumes reflects the cost per liter, as any high demand user would expect.
They know exactly what it cost's them on every platform and the numbers work for them.
 

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At what resolution were the Epson based prints printed at?
I,m wondering if most of the posted numbers are just a general reference comparison between the different brand machines? epson/other brands.. one would think the older epson based 2200 machines and there larger printhead drop size capability would differ from newer models? along with the different rip manufacturer software, to me it would be hard to clasify all the epson brand printers to one standard of ink cost based on these variables?

I use the same software as the anajet, so it has 3 different drop size settings and 6 different ink level settings!! also you can use a gradient white background or a solid white background (excuse me if i do not get the terminology correct im very new to the process:)) would software not play into the ink cost equation along with some epson printers being able to lay down the white with great coverage in 720 and others not having this ability?

I would assume other rips have these settings aswell.. would maneuvering these settings not make a difference in the ink cost? ie lower res and gradient settings?

here is a video reference of the ana-sprint [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltqgLsWHR0s[/media] i beleive its printing this image in dual 720 guessing by the speed of the print! i would have to guess that a higher ink level and dropsize are needed for the white at this res..

looking at other videos aswell it looks as the mod1 can do this also but returning very fast after the last raster is printed:) so are you not in reality using the same amount of white ink in a lower res as you would in 14xx? I have not tested this yet maybe some anajet or mod1 users could elaborate on the settings-cost variables? i see the production value in the fast print for sure!! im just looking at getting some cost feed back from someone that has used the newer model epsons 1800 and above over a period of at least a year!! I know the anajet oem ink is more expensive..but it will give me a good average to work off of!! possibly a comparison with the same image different software/printer of the 1800-1900 base model also!!

additionally would a bagged ink save any $ from less evaporation rate? i know i have read here about less head cleans saving money with the bagged!!
 

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I have RIP's for 2200, 2400, 48xx, 1800, and there is not a tremendous difference. As stated in my post, the RIP setting used to create the underbase in the examples were set to 50% strength. These were not solid backgrounds, they were consistent with the type of underbase used on the 782, as well as high end process screen printing, a gradient greyscale type of under base.
 

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I have RIP's for 2200, 2400, 48xx, 1800, and there is not a tremendous difference. As stated in my post, the RIP setting used to create the underbase in the examples were set to 50% strength. These were not solid backgrounds, they were consistent with the type of underbase used on the 782, as well as high end process screen printing, a gradient greyscale type of under base.
have you had any expermintation results with different brand rips iproof,fast artist,eukon digital, or others? or is the software technology settings the same based on epson drivers?

I ask because some have said you cant get good coverage printing white underbase at 14xx res without a double pass? with some rips! and would that make a difference in costs or is the ink laydown the same volume no matter if its covering at 720 or 14xx with the epson models?
 

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brother ink is thicker than the inks Epson based machines meaning it will need to use less ink to give satisfactory results...

Software is important but loosing focus on aspect that ink formula is different to is important thing to remember : )

Drop size is different to 40ppl for Brother and 4ppl For Epson, larger drop - wider coverage at faster speeds
 

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brother ink is thicker than the inks Epson based machines meaning it will need to use less ink to give satisfactory results...

Software is important but loosing focus on aspect that ink formula is different to is important thing to remember : )

Drop size is different to 40ppl for Brother and 4ppl For Epson, larger drop - wider coverage at faster speeds

thanks for all theinfo guys!!!:)

I am however still very baffled to say the least regarding ink-speed!! i keep hearing the brother amongst other non epsons talk or describe the thicker ink faster speed combination.. however every video i have ever seen whether it be a company demo or youtube or in person i have not seen this speed portion?? the fastest machines i have seen are the mod1 and anajet sprint hands down no contest as far as speed IMHO!!! so what am i missing here? is it just the washability that attracts the non epson users/buyers because it looks as if the non epsons are much higher in price at a res sacrifice aswell? Im just trying to learn the reasoning behind the purchase of non epson because it cant be speed?
 

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thanks for all theinfo guys!!!:)

I am however still very baffled to say the least regarding ink-speed!! i keep hearing the brother amongst other non epsons talk or describe the thicker ink faster speed combination.. however every video i have ever seen whether it be a company demo or youtube or in person i have not seen this speed portion?? the fastest machines i have seen are the mod1 and anajet sprint hands down no contest as far as speed IMHO!!! so what am i missing here? is it just the washability that attracts the non epson users/buyers because it looks as if the non epsons are much higher in price at a res sacrifice aswell? Im just trying to learn the reasoning behind the purchase of non epson because it cant be speed?
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/belquette/t121824.html#post717805

The shirt in this post took between 4-6 minutes on a mod1 according to TT. It was a matter of 1440x720 or 1440x1440. I can print it in 3 minutes on my 782.

I don't know what it is your missing either, but the 782 is clearly faster. Jerid also timed a print for me that took him five minutes on his mod1, I can do it in three.

So the reason for non epson purchases certainly include speed. And this is just one shirt at a time. If you want to print two shirts, my 782 is even faster.

Next.....:D
 

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http://www.t-shirtforums.com/belquette/t121824.html#post717805

The shirt in this post took between 4-6 minutes on a mod1 according to TT. It was a matter of 1440x720 or 1440x1440. I can print it in 3 minutes on my 782.

I don't know what it is your missing either, but the 782 is clearly faster. Jerid also timed a print for me that took him five minutes on his mod1, I can do it in three.

So the reason for non epson purchases certainly include speed. And this is just one shirt at a time. If you want to print two shirts, my 782 is even faster.

Next.....:D
What about the mod1 printing at 720 ? Is this the case with the anajet aswell, the anajet will do a dark in under two min im not sure about the mod in 720?:D Im just trying to calculate the equation for myself.. not dising the machine its a price per unit of machine vs speed for me!! asnd im looking to see what you guys think the benefits are outside of that.. the brother 782 is impressive but cost vs the output speed just isnt there for me personally... unless there are several other bennies im overlooking?
 

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The mod and anajet are the same platform, 1800/1900 Epsons. The speed will be almost identical save a few minor differences due to the RIP's.

My old kiosk would do a black shirt in under two minutes. 10x10 360 squared. Looked like garbage, but it could do it. I am sure the Anajet could produce similar results in both speed and quality.

If the mod1 could produce a sellable print at 720 don't you think that is what they would be using? :rolleyes:

This is my last post debating or sharing information with you, it is a waste of time. I appreciate the DIY info you have so freely shared, and I thank you for that. You are convinced that the Epson 1800/1900 platform is faster than the 782 when producing the same image at a comparable quality. It isn't. Multiple other well respected forum members that actually own the machines have proven it.
 

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The mod and anajet are the same platform, 1800/1900 Epsons. The speed will be almost identical save a few minor differences due to the RIP's.

My old kiosk would do a black shirt in under two minutes. 10x10 360 squared. Looked like garbage, but it could do it. I am sure the Anajet could produce similar results in both speed and quality.

If the mod1 could produce a sellable print at 720 don't you think that is what they would be using? :rolleyes:

This is my last post debating or sharing information with you, it is a waste of time. I appreciate the DIY info you have so freely shared, and I thank you for that. You are convinced that the Epson 1800/1900 platform is faster than the 782 when producing the same image at a comparable quality. It isn't. Multiple other well respected forum members that actually own the machines have proven it.
Wow,
Im sorry you feel that way!!! people like to ask questions and get real answers!! again thats what a forum is right, the sharing of imformation with different user opinions!! I do not agree with you saying a 720 printed image from an epson 1900 base is not a quaility sellable image... the anajet vid clearly debunks that notion http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e14hAkB6RL8 and i do this on a daily basis with the same software in 720 res on a home build!! im not sure about the 720 image on a mod1 i cant debate that..

that is very interesting however (this is your last post debating or sharing imformation!!) why because i disagree regarding speed? why do you even bother coming to the forums then? this will be part of many conversations a diference of opinion!! sounds very child like..no? I was honestly looking for the other benefits outside of speed.. my math equates to this regarding the subject: i could purchase tthree anajet sprints for the price of one brother 782 which can print a dark in under two minutes tripling my output for the same cost per unit with cheaper ink cost!.. i dont see it any other way!!! sorry!!
 

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I believe because your posts look for conflict,not discussion.Everytime I read one of your posts it seems like that is what your trying to do.Sorry.On another note-The Mod 1 blows away the anajet.
 

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Lol - it kills me that you would think that you can tell from a video that the product is sellable. It also amuses me that you would trust anything that comes from Anajet. The video you posted contains a multitude of falsehoods.

Only American made DTG. WRONG
Only one that can print on polyester. WRONG
Built from the ground up. WRONG
Fastest in the industry. WRONG

It is not a matter of disagreeing. It is a matter of facts. It is not different user opinions. Your opinion does not break the laws of time and space, or if it does you should be working on something a little more important than a DIY DTG.

Every image I have received printed 720x720 white layer one pass from any vendor, manufacturer, or reseller has been of an unacceptable quality.( in my opinion, just wanted to demonstrate the difference in opinion and fact) If the 1800/1900 can produce such great images, why don't those in the business print with it? Why wouldn't Jerid and the Belquette staff correct me during my pre purchase phase? Surely it would have been to their benefit to show me how much faster the mod1 is. Especially when they knew I was looking at the 782, and specifically requested head to head print speed comparisons.

You say you like to ask questions and get real answers, but then proceed to argue about the real life answers, from actual real life users, this is why I decided to forgo any further discussion.

Printzilla signing off for good. Good luck and good night......:)
 
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