[aspliz]

I am an advisor of a 4H club and belong to an association
consisting of all the advisors of the counties clubs.
We have never had and official logo so we had a logo contest. Anyone could submit art. We voted on the art at the March meeting. There were 10 pieces submitted and the winner was a 16 yr old girl. Since I do the signs, for the fair, I contacted the girl and asked if she could send me the art. She sent it and said that the award committee chairman had to change it a "tad bit" for printing purposes. I was a clipart version thrown together that wasn't even a bit like the original and as a matter of fact wasn't as clean as the original!! I was livid but didn't say anything, I just asked her if she could send me her original. She did, so I traced it and cleaned it up and contacted the award chair and told her that i realize sometimes art needs cleaned up but it is never to be altered and I would gladly send her the original version in any format she needed. I also sent a copy to the president. I have created a firestorm. This is not a small time organization by the way. We spend 10,000 on awards each year for a 160 youth participants the week of fair. Award chair made excuses and argued and president is waffling because I think she gave her permission to use it without consulting the Association.
The ribbons were not printed as of this morning but I was told to back off. You do not alter art when you make it camera ready. I see this as a black and white issue, no wiggle room. Crap is really gonna hit the fan when the assoc. gets wind and what message did they send the 16 yr old artist?? Any thoughts?

 

[Fenrir]

Unless you actually have some pull with the higher ups in this organization, you are better off learning to leave it be and ignore it completely. There will always be people who think they can do a better job themselves even though they're dumber than half a brick, and unless you are "in the clique", you will never come out looking good from a disaster like this.

In my experience the bigger the club the more ***kissers the higher ups want.

 

[miktoxic]

i don't know how this creates a firestorm. if you are the only one on this committee that knows anything about art production they would have to defer to you.

sounds way political for me to understand.

how did you alter the art work? does this 16 year old have a computer graphics suite on a computer or was it hand drawn? was the clip art purchased legally and used under it's licensing rules?

i mean what's the reason everyone is so upset? you have to explain to these people who don't understand diddly squat about this biz the reasons why you have to clean up the design. it's just that simple.

 

[aspliz]

Exactly! The original art was hand drawn, the lady that redid it lied to the kid and said it wasn't
usable. So she redid it in a very crappy totally different layout with same clipart version of the elements and sent it off to be put on ribbons. I had a holy fit (to myself) when the kid sent me the revised version when I asked for her art, I then asked for original submission that I cleaned up. I then let the revision lady and the president know that it was not acceptable to change the art and that I had the real art camera ready and available (in a nice email).
This was Monday and the ribbons had not been printed so it was
a rectifiable situation. The president made excuses but finally saw the light and told revision lady to stop everything and only use original for any printing. I was told it it would be 80.00 to chuck the printing that was done and reprint with correct art but that it was too late. So I called ribbon company who I have dealt with before to see if it was too late, that was Thursday morning and the ribbon button paper had been printed but not die cut. I asked to be called back with cost of solution but they called the president, she called me screaming that it would be 800.00 and to butt out. 80.00 or 800.00????
I think she released the order and I doubt it was 800.00. I will get to the bottom of this and let you know but what message did the president of a 4H association send to a 16 yr old girl.
Art should not be altered. The girl emailed me and asked my if her art or my cleaned up version could be used on something, she hoped so, she thought that they would be different. What is funny is that her original and my "version" of her original are exactly alike, mine is camera ready!
She was pleasantly surprised. What a bunch of power hungry, butt covering idiots.
By the way, I am the chair of the 100 pg ad book, which is our largest fund raiser and it was acknowledged at first that I should have been deferred to before any changes were made.
What is sad is that it all could have been stopped Monday. I know what I am talking about, it isn't a matter of just my opinion. I keep my mouth shut as a rule, I don't need the drama but this was a fight worth fighting. I'll keep you posted but would love more opinions.
I just need to vent but did wonder what other pros in the printing field thought of this.

 

[miktoxic]

Exactly! The original art was hand drawn, the lady that redid it lied to the kid and said it wasn't
usable. So she redid it in a very crappy totally different layout with same clipart version of the elements and sent it off to be put on ribbons. I had a holy fit (to myself) when the kid sent me the revised version when I asked for her art, I then asked for original submission that I cleaned up. I then let the revision lady and the president know that it was not acceptable to change the art and that I had the real art camera ready and available (in a nice email).
This was Monday and the ribbons had not been printed so it was
a rectifiable situation. The president made excuses but finally saw the light and told revision lady to stop everything and only use original for any printing. I was told it it would be 80.00 to chuck the printing that was done and reprint with correct art but that it was too late. So I called ribbon company who I have dealt with before to see if it was too late, that was Thursday morning and the ribbon button paper had been printed but not die cut. I asked to be called back with cost of solution but they called the president, she called me screaming that it would be 800.00 and to butt out. 80.00 or 800.00????
I think she released the order and I doubt it was 800.00. I will get to the bottom of this and let you know but what message did the president of a 4H association send to a 16 yr old girl.
Art should not be altered. The girl emailed me and asked my if her art or my cleaned up version could be used on something, she hoped so, she thought that they would be different. What is funny is that her original and my "version" of her original are exactly alike, mine is camera ready!
She was pleasantly surprised. What a bunch of power hungry, butt covering idiots.
By the way, I am the chair of the 100 pg ad book, which is our largest fund raiser and it was acknowledged at first that I should have been deferred to before any changes were made.
What is sad is that it all could have been stopped Monday. I know what I am talking about, it isn't a matter of just my opinion. I keep my mouth shut as a rule, I don't need the drama but this was a fight worth fighting. I'll keep you posted but would love more opinions.
I just need to vent but did wonder what other pros in the printing field thought of this.

unless there is some underlying political motive (sad to say that but there is in almost every type of org that is supposed to be helping and promoting youth activities) they should defer to you on all design/printing aspects of anything being done.

sounds more like a bunch of old ladies (not you) at the heads of a condo org arguing over something mundane like whether or not to allow cats into their units.

i wonder what the head of the committee would say if you brought the girl in with a face to face and hear her side of the story. i don't think a gavel would be hitting any podium with as loud a bang.

disgusting.

 

[Skinbus]

Was there anything remotely offensive about it? Was there a reason given as to why the original wasn't useable?

 

[Preston]

In reality if they changed the art without the girls permission and then printed it they are in violation of intellectual property right laws. More over if they then pass this revision off as the girls work they could be in violation of some other laws. And if the girl gets upset about the changes they are in violation of child abuse laws by causing the child emotional harm.

Have the little girl sue them or send a cease and desist as the whole thing is purely political posturing. The contest rules probably gives them the right to use the art she had drawn but I will bet it does not give them the right to change it.

But as you know, nothing will be done and they will get away with the political posturing.

 

[aspliz]

It is disgusting, the mother of the girl is angry at herself for not saying anything in March when
ribbon lady sent the revised crap back to her daughter. They thought they had no choice and didn't like it but didn't understand the process. I just found out from another company that .05 is what they figure per ribbon for the color print. So it is pretty safe to say it would be around 100.00 to start over.
Small price to pay for a for a huge crap in the face mistake.
I don't think it is as political as it is butt covering and
anger at me for calling the ribbon supplier to find out what is going on. Micro-managing control freak presidents hate that!! She is so mad that I believe she is letting order go to spite me and thinks that damage control at the June meeting will suffice. I'll tell you now, that is not gonna happen. Oh and this association is a mixed bag but mostly professionals. I did not notify the association because the right thing to do was to just take care of the problem and no one had to get crap in the face. Too late now.

 

[aspliz]

In reality if they changed the art without the girls permission and then printed it they are in violation of intellectual property right laws. More over if they then pass this revision off as the girls work they could be in violation of some other laws. And if the girl gets upset about the changes they are in violation of child abuse laws by causing the child emotional harm.

Have the little girl sue them or send a cease and desist as the whole thing is purely political posturing. The contest rules probably gives them the right to use the art she had drawn but I will bet it does not give them the right to change it.

But as you know, nothing will be done and they will get away with the political posturing.

Thank you, thank you, now we are talking. This was not offensive at all. a horseshoe, and couple of flowers and the abbreviation of the association name that we use.
There was heated discussion at the April meeting with same woman, about ordering ribbons that the associated voted to do away with at the march meeting. The NE Ohio director of the 4H out of Ohio State was there and intervened and said "the minutes of the assoc. are law!" The president at first tried to cover for her but people got angry and she finally told her to cancel or she would have to pay for them.
I pick and choose my battles wisely. That's why I wanted feedback. It is very informative and as much as I hate drama I can't let this pass. I have been keeping a member who is knowledgeable and outspoken but like me stays out of the drama, informed since the beginning. She is planning on researching the laws on this. I am going to document the whole ugly mess. The mother (who is an active but quiet member) and father are angry that their daughter and they were lied to. They now understand. Here we go.
Anybody have an idea on what to research or where to start? Not including the good info received above. thanks!

 

[wormil]

I admire your speaking up for the girl, well done.

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using T-Shirt Forums

 

[aspliz]

I admire your speaking up for the girl, well done.

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using T-Shirt Forums

Thanks, that means alot. It is only because of her, that
I dug my heels because this isn't about my opinion it's flat out wrong.
I am not in the most comfortable position but right is right and I and hanging til it's over.
Ribbons are due for delivery June 4.
It will be interesting to see if the president thought to sent the correct art, i would be happy about that but more than likely she released order, as is, in anger, to spite me.
It's all about control.

 

[K Chez]

Problem #1 - committee involvement
Problem #2 - contest to design logo

Crappy situation, but nice of you to go to bat for the girl. I'm sure that there is a lawyer that would take the case and take the power hungry idiots to task over it.

Our shop's biggest print job of the year always has a "contest" to come up with the shirt design, and every year the design is worse than the last. I would love to see how the "committee" comes to its decision on the winner each year. We stopped telling people that we do the shirts because they instantly think that we also did the design.

 

[miktoxic]

there are some very knowledgeable people on this forum on the subjects of infringement law.

if you really want that type of feedback i would suggest reposting this thread with that in the title.

this is my question: are you a member of this panel or board? if so is everyone of equal stature? does it take a majority vote to have something passed? why aren't there specific titles given to each member of the board (i'm sure there is) because i'm wondering (with your knowledge of design and production art) why you don't hold that title or that people know you are the 'art lady'?

 

[aspliz]

there are some very knowledgeable people on this forum on the subjects of infringement law.

if you really want that type of feedback i would suggest reposting this thread with that in the title.

this is my question: are you a member of this panel or board? if so is everyone of equal stature? does it take a majority vote to have something passed? why aren't there specific titles given to each member of the board (i'm sure there is) because i'm wondering (with your knowledge of design and production art) why you don't hold that title or that people know you are the 'art lady'?

The association consists of 75 or more members and is over 50yrs old. the executive committee- pres., VP, Secretary, Treasurer, and 3 trustees. Each office is held for 1 yr.,
the trustees or 3 years and on a cycle of 1 out every year and new replaced. The meetings are run by Roberts Rules.
There are several committees, fair, rules, open show, awards
to name a few and the are big and time consuming jobs. Every member is required to belong to one of the first three mentioned because the are the hardest and most time consuming. The exception to that is if you are a chair of another committee. I am the chairman (woman haha) of the ad book. There is a 100.00 stall fee to come to fair or you can sell 100.00 in ads instead. I assembly the book myself and have it printed and perfect bound, it was 100 pgs this year and netted 18,000.00 dollars. I also handle alot of the signage at the fairground. I must say, I also have the best dressed club at the parade of entries.
(it had better be!! haha)
This is not rinky dink operation, the major problem is that the president is a mico manager and has big control problems. We as members are spread all over the county and don't complain to each other, at least I don't.
The president is a business woman who on the surface is together and intimidating. I realized she really wasn't fit to be the president so I've just been watching. She loses it under pressure and rips your head off and when it happened to me she didn't even have her facts. This time she really cooked herself.

Today----
Pres. texting me - I was told you are telling people about this, I am begging you to quit, quit, quit, you are making things difficult for me.
Me - don't beg, I didn't
Pres. - that is not what I was told, I know you are passionate about this but pls respect that it is being handled properly
Me - i talked to 1 person that already knew, which logo is being used, I have a right to know.
Me (30 mins later) If nothing is your answer then leave me alone
Pres. - (still arguing about who told who what) and there is no need to be rude to me.
Me - Moot pt not gonna argue, leave me alone was a statement, and if you want to discuss rude call me and we can discuss the screaming fit phone call from you thursday morning. (I had to hang up on her)

Heres what is going on now -
Emergency executive meeting tomorrow nite
They are hot because pres did not contact them so they had no clue
Ribbon woman admitted to changing art because she didn't like it ( if they don't remove her I will ask that be done at the meeting in June)
President admits to being wrong and handling badly but all ribbon womans fault!??
5000.00 worth of ribbons were taken off the hold I put on them and completed with wrong art (not to mention horrible)
All this could have been averted Monday when I offered to call company, get cost of replacement (80.00) and send correct art. I offered to pay it myself.
It wasn't averted because I was told not to by pres. because she wanted exert her power and control over ribbon lady.
Now I have a dilemma on how far I want to go with this
as far as the president is concerned. Our fair is two months away and if I make the president tow the line and I should
it will create havoc. I am torn. I want to be done with the drama but there has been too much butt covering and kissing and control.
and then there is the poor child who submitted the art
by the way it is the first official logo we've had and the contest was an impromptu deal. It was however voted to be our logo by the association and our minutes are law.
What a mess.
all that being said, I am gonna layoff the legal stuff, 2 months to fair and it would really, really be bad.

 

[Fenrir]

Also consider it would really really be bad to continue to let people so clearly unqualified for their jobs to continue to stay in them. It's just too bad the kid had to go through all this to begin with.

 

[aspliz]

Also consider it would really really be bad to continue to let people so clearly unqualified for their jobs to continue to stay in them. It's just too bad the kid had to go through all this to begin with.

That is exactly the way I feel but I think it would be to the
the worst choice.
I had an idea. I am gonna request attending the Executive committee meeting monday. I will be able to tell them exactly what is going on without the whole membership
having to be involved? I don't know, there are also problems with that. I wish I could walk away.
I am so torn.
I must say I feel better being able to tell this story.
Pretty funny that I am being accused of talking to everyone
and I guess I am but not who she thinks.
Thanks for all the feedback. No matter what just venting has made me feel better.