[CombatFighter]

Alright so i have been reading through as many post as i could find and didnt find my answer yet. We are considering start another line that involves "collegiate shirts" without using their name, logo or mascot name on it. What we would do is basically use their mascot, but drawn differently, and the school colors. The mascot would look nothing like the schools mascot, but if people saw the shirt, they would be able to tell its a certain school by putting the two together (mascot/colors).

For example. University of Florida. We would have a "muscular gator" drawn on the shirt with blue and orange.

i know there are a TON of laws about this stuff and using their logo, name, mascot etc.....

What i need to know is if we basically recreate a different mascot and only use the school colors, would that be LEGAL?

Please no bashing me if its illegal, we havent started yet, so dont tell me i am in troubel with the law just merely in thoughts right now.

Thank you,
Brett

 

[PositiveDave]

If it's close enough for a majority of people to make a connection it is possible that you could be sued.
No one can tell you whether it's legal except a judge and by that time it will have cost you a fortune.
And yes, there are loads of other threads saying exactly the same thing. And no, this is not different.

 

[taricp35]

I agree with you Dave, all the tons of other posts on this subject all ask the same question, they just try to ask it differently. Nothing different about this question and the same answers given on other threads apply. Regardless of what you do design wise, if people can associate it with a trademarked or copyrighted logo, then it is infringement.

 

[ShirlandDesign]

For the amount of thought and effort it would require to pull off what you propose you could do something legitimate and never have to watch your back.

 

[kimura-mma]

The mascot would look nothing like the schools mascot, but if people saw the shirt, they would be able to tell its a certain school by putting the two together (mascot/colors).

You have sort of answered your own question. If people will know it's a certain school and you don't have a license to produce shirts of that school, then it's potentially IP infringement.

What i need to know is if we basically recreate a different mascot and only use the school colors, would that be LEGAL?

It is definitely not legal in the sense that you could be sued for basing your artwork on trademarked and licensed material.

But it's hard to say for sure if you will get sued or if you could win a lawsuit. It's probably best to consult an attorney to find out what the level of risk is based on your intended use.

But it's important to understand that the college merchandise industry is a multi billion dollar business. The main licensing agencies (CLC and LRG) have the responsibility to protect their clients IP and take action against infringement. Allowing unlicensed product on the market helps to devalue the license. So even if you are just toeing the line of infringement, you can still expect an aggressive legal approach to get you to stop selling your unlicensed product or pay the license fees and royalties.

 

[Dante2004]

I find it interesting when you see a high school with the same colors and mascot as a college. They aren't linked the college in ANY way, but they still pull it off. Agreement behind the scenes? Who knows...


I had a similar question, but found this thread while searching. Maybe THIS question will give me the answer I am looking for.

Without paying for an attorney, is there a "general reference" that I read to see what the laws are? I don't want to try to read a law book. But perhaps a book someone in the tshirt industry has published? Obviously you would want take that info with a grain of salt...

I keep hearing people say that if a design is 30% original, you should be safe. Particularly if you are promoting a completely different product. So unlike the "Gators" tshirt above, you wouldn't be promoting the school, but rather some other product that has a similar mascot...?

Cliffs:
Does anyone know of a book/website that outlines (in laymans terms) what is/is not legal?

 

[ShirlandDesign]

This a little off topic,

But I was reading about what constitutes a non profit and not for profit business. From what I can determine some legal issues are written in to law somewhat vague (to my uneducated eye). I think that splitting hairs is work left up to juries and judges.

 

[Dante2004]

I am also curious...and therefore searching...to find this answer.

A member of an organization asks you to prints some shirts for them with their logo. How do you establish that this person has the "authority" to grant that permission? If it is a small business and they are the owner, its pretty self-explanatory. But what about a larger organization? Let's say the local red cross is doing a blood drive and they want some shirts? Or your son's boy scout troop?

 

[kimura-mma]

I find it interesting when you see a high school with the same colors and mascot as a college. They aren't linked the college in ANY way, but they still pull it off. Agreement behind the scenes? Who knows...

High schools generally get permission from pro and college teams to use their name, mascot, logo, colors, etc. I think the main reason it gets approved is because high schools take any revenue generated by the merchandise to fund back into the sports programs. So I think pro and college teams feel like they are helping out in their own way by allowing the usage.

Without paying for an attorney, is there a "general reference" that I read to see what the laws are? I don't want to try to read a law book. But perhaps a book someone in the tshirt industry has published? Obviously you would want take that info with a grain of salt...

I'm sure you can find plenty of books, blogs, etc, with info on intellectual property laws.

And specifically for use on t-shirts, I would look no further than this forum. Just use the search feature and read up on all the previous topics about usage of trademarks, copyrights, etc. While not attorneys, many people here have been through this and have some experience with it. And when in doubt, post a question. You are sure to get some helpful answers.

But the best general reference is this... If you didn't create it then someone else did and that person can potentially sue for infringement.

I keep hearing people say that if a design is 30% original, you should be safe. Particularly if you are promoting a completely different product. So unlike the "Gators" tshirt above, you wouldn't be promoting the school, but rather some other product that has a similar mascot...?

No, this is not accurate at all. There is no law that states if you change a design by a certain percentage that it is legal or safe.

There are laws about derivative works and parody, but none of that makes your work automatically legal or safe. There is always some level of risk to be sued when basing art on an existing work. The only percentage of original artwork that makes you safe is 100%.

Does anyone know of a book/website that outlines (in laymans terms) what is/is not legal?

Again, I'm sure there are plenty of resources that discuss IP. But I'll save you the trouble and break it down simply:

If you create artwork that is 100% original, it's legal. If you create artwork that is based on any existing trademark or copyright, it's illegal. The caveat about creating illegal artwork is that maybe you will get caught and maybe you won't.

 

[PositiveDave]

I am also curious...and therefore searching...to find this answer.

A member of an organization asks you to prints some shirts for them with their logo. How do you establish that this person has the "authority" to grant that permission? If it is a small business and they are the owner, its pretty self-explanatory. But what about a larger organization? Let's say the local red cross is doing a blood drive and they want some shirts? Or your son's boy scout troop?

Not an easy one, you can get them to sign an order form on behalf of that organisation? I think you should be reasonable, if it's the red cross for a blood drive & a local rep comes in...OK, if it's a student wanting their college logo...well...

 

[kimura-mma]

A member of an organization asks you to prints some shirts for them with their logo. How do you establish that this person has the "authority" to grant that permission? If it is a small business and they are the owner, its pretty self-explanatory. But what about a larger organization? Let's say the local red cross is doing a blood drive and they want some shirts? Or your son's boy scout troop?

If you want to make sure you don't get in any legal trouble by printing the logo, have the person making the request sign a waiver that they are responsible.

If you want to take it a step further, require them to provide a letter from the organization that states that they have the authority to use the logo.

And if you wanted to go even further than that, contact the organization yourself and find out who is responsible for the usage of the logos.