[DDT Designs]

I have been using the neoflex for about a month or so now and I have a couple issues pop up.

I ordered the Image Armor pretreat solution. I was told that with Image Armor you don't need to use as much as the generic brand. Dupoint I think its called. Then I read that you need to use more then normal. Which is it? More or less?

I do things old school with a hand sprayer. I start to spray until I see a bit of a build up happening on the shirt, then using a swoosher brush I even things out. I put it on the heat press let it sit for about 15 to 30 seconds then using a sponge roller roll off any excess treatment that bubbles up and once again smooth things out.

I then heat press at 350 using the teflon sheet and the white paper (forget at the moment what they are called) for 30 seconds. Then I hover press until there is no longer any steam. (hover meaning I put the press as close to the shirt as I can without the press locking) Then after majority of the steam is gone I open the press and leave the shirt sit under the heat until any left over steaming is all done.

Now I have noticed that some shirts flake after one wash. And any other shirts look like they might start flaking after a few more washes or the edges look to be slowly starting to curl up a bit. (only have problems with black shirts. I havent tried working on colored ones yet)

Is this because of not enough pretreat, too much pretreat, not curing long enough or curing too long.

I just had to give a refund to a client because all his staff shirts I did flaked. A 300 dollar sale down the tubes.

Any ideas on this would be great.

Cheers.

 

[allamerican-aeoon]

What I remember about you is
From Canada. Bought 2nd hand. Not trained. No records of any transaction with AA.
You have to find sweet spot is number one. Two is you had NeoFlex for 5-6 months(not 1 month or so) and not produce well and losing customers are not worth it than fly in Philly and go though Train and pick up tips. Self learn is great but if there are high way why we take alley while we have long way to go. PS: if you bring ink back in your suitcase you will fly free.
Cheers! Inks are on me always.

 

[JGCMelissa]

I have been using the neoflex for about a month or so now and I have a couple issues pop up.

I ordered the Image Armor pretreat solution. I was told that with Image Armor you don't need to use as much as the generic brand. Dupoint I think its called. Then I read that you need to use more then normal. Which is it? More or less? It's more like, you can use extra, it's more forgiving than the dupont pretreat.

I do things old school with a hand sprayer. I start to spray until I see a bit of a build up happening on the shirt, then using a swoosher brush I even things out. I put it on the heat press let it sit for about 15 to 30 seconds then using a sponge roller roll off any excess treatment that bubbles up and once again smooth things out. The process should be: spray, brush over twice, going the same direction, not up and down, then press for 30 seconds at 330-340 degrees with paper (some use quilon, some use teflon, it seems to be personal preference). The sponge roller is overkill, you should be heat pressing any moisture out.

I then heat press at 350 using the teflon sheet and the white paper (forget at the moment what they are called) for 30 seconds. Then I hover press until there is no longer any steam. (hover meaning I put the press as close to the shirt as I can without the press locking) Then after majority of the steam is gone I open the press and leave the shirt sit under the heat until any left over steaming is all done. 350 is a bit hot, you should be at 330-340. Again, one press should be sufficient to dry the pt on a t-shirt.

Now I have noticed that some shirts flake after one wash. And any other shirts look like they might start flaking after a few more washes or the edges look to be slowly starting to curl up a bit. (only have problems with black shirts. I havent tried working on colored ones yet) Flaking/peeling is usually caused by too much pt.

Is this because of not enough pretreat, too much pretreat, not curing long enough or curing too long.

I just had to give a refund to a client because all his staff shirts I did flaked. A 300 dollar sale down the tubes.

Any ideas on this would be great.

Cheers.

If Peter is indeed correct, that you have not gone through training to use this machine, I STRONGLY recommend you do so before continuing or taking any further jobs. It may seem like you are doing harm to your bottom line by doing that, but trust me, it will save you lots of headaches and money down the road.

 

[DDT Designs]

1) Yes I have had the machine for longer but the last month or so has been me using it full force printing. The previous was getting the darn thing to work by my supplier.

2) I get my supplies via CSS Supplies in Vancouver BC who are an affiliate of AA. Why pay extra to ship from the States. I did buy my Image Armor from AA.

3) I have had training from CSS. Could use more I agree to fine tune what I can do. But I am not doing this totally ignorant.

4) The heat press temps and process is what I was told by my instructor at CSS and through the manual they provided me.

5) I found it interesting that someone with only 61 posts gave me pointers while official All American post did nothing other then just telling me to fly to Philly. (money that I don't have on hand to spend). Not to mention your reply almost sounded like you were scolding me. I presume that was not the case but that is how it read to me.

 

[23spiderman]

is the color flaking off the white, or the white flaking off the shirt? you really shouldn't have this problem with IA since you can't really apply too much. that being said, i use about the same amount of IA as I did DuPont.

if the print was also cracking, then it's quite possible the prints were undercured. i dry my pretreat in 2 presses, flipping the sheet in between to let the steam escape. then i cure my inks with 2 presses of 90 seconds at 330 degrees. i dry my pretreat at 330 degrees and i cure my prints at 330 degrees. not sure why you were told 350.

spray your pretreat, brush in one direction, and let hang dry for 10 minutes or so. i spray 10-15 shirts at a time. you can hover to get some of the excess moisture out, or just go ahead and press with heavy pressure for 30 seconds. then flip your paper and press again in 10-15 second intervals. your humidity will determine how quickly your shirt dries. like Melissa said, there is no need for the roller step.

if your pretreat is undercured, or your prints are undercured, you can have wash problems.

 

[Teez310]

I have been using the neoflex for about a month or so now and I have a couple issues pop up.

I ordered the Image Armor pretreat solution. I was told that with Image Armor you don't need to use as much as the generic brand. Dupoint I think its called. Then I read that you need to use more then normal. Which is it? More or less?

I do things old school with a hand sprayer. I start to spray until I see a bit of a build up happening on the shirt, then using a swoosher brush I even things out. I put it on the heat press let it sit for about 15 to 30 seconds then using a sponge roller roll off any excess treatment that bubbles up and once again smooth things out.

I then heat press at 350 using the teflon sheet and the white paper (forget at the moment what they are called) for 30 seconds. Then I hover press until there is no longer any steam. (hover meaning I put the press as close to the shirt as I can without the press locking) Then after majority of the steam is gone I open the press and leave the shirt sit under the heat until any left over steaming is all done.

Now I have noticed that some shirts flake after one wash. And any other shirts look like they might start flaking after a few more washes or the edges look to be slowly starting to curl up a bit. (only have problems with black shirts. I havent tried working on colored ones yet)

Is this because of not enough pretreat, too much pretreat, not curing long enough or curing too long.

I just had to give a refund to a client because all his staff shirts I did flaked. A 300 dollar sale down the tubes.

Any ideas on this would be great.

Cheers.

350 is fine as I'm at 347 but I know my heat press may be off about 4 degrees. Secondly when drying or curing, the press can dip down to as low as 336. In this I at least know the heat will never dip below 330.

Too much pt. Imagine putting little to none and the ink gets absorbed into the shirt, no barrier. Little more pt, than you get pitting but image is a bit better and wash is a bit more solid. Even more pt, and image gets even more solid but then finding that spot before the ink just lays on top of the pt with no cling to the shirt.. Find that sweet spot.

If u are doing the extra pt route.. I can say 30 secs might be enough to completely dry the pt. I never had luck with putting more than normal.. I think my humidity may be a cause as I don't see any other reason why my washes aren't the same as people who pour it on.

 

[DDT Designs]

is the color flaking off the white, or the white flaking off the shirt? you really shouldn't have this problem with IA since you can't really apply too much. that being said, i use about the same amount of IA as I did DuPont.

if the print was also cracking, then it's quite possible the prints were undercured. i dry my pretreat in 2 presses, flipping the sheet in between to let the steam escape. then i cure my inks with 2 presses of 90 seconds at 330 degrees. i dry my pretreat at 330 degrees and i cure my prints at 330 degrees. not sure why you were told 350.

spray your pretreat, brush in one direction, and let hang dry for 10 minutes or so. i spray 10-15 shirts at a time. you can hover to get some of the excess moisture out, or just go ahead and press with heavy pressure for 30 seconds. then flip your paper and press again in 10-15 second intervals. your humidity will determine how quickly your shirt dries. like Melissa said, there is no need for the roller step.

if your pretreat is undercured, or your prints are undercured, you can have wash problems.

Both the color and the white under base flake off. With other shirts I just got small cracking that makes the shirt look like its been well worn.

So you pretreat then hang dry for ten minutes or so then you heat press them? I was told to use both the teflon sheet along with the Quilon sheets to avoid burning the shirts. So should I just use the teflon then or just the Quilon?

I use the silicon sheets when I cure the inks.

Thank you for the help. Other then this problem everything else has been sunshine and roses.

 

[allamerican-aeoon]

Jon,
I will give you some Kraft Paper for free to you to test. You just pay shipping. Call me on Monday. Curing ink: Few degree up and down will not hurt. When 20-30 Cheap off( Heat Presses out there) big trouble. Go to hardware store and but Temp Gage to check your heat press. What you see in gage might not what it is. I don't like use Teflon and Paper together.
Try one only to test. Prefer Paper only. Teflon? No hard pressure.
Find out what is burning point with your heat press. Play with Temp, Pressure and Time.
Write it down on samples and wash together.
Let us know.
Cheers! Inks are on me always.

 

[Printerguy1]

AA sells Kraft paper?

 

[allamerican-aeoon]

Yes, all day long. We buy same place as Stahl buys. Same price and all. Just call if you cannot find on website.
Cheers! Inks are on me always.

 

[treefox2118]

Whose heat press do you use?

We use GeoKnight & calibrate with this process:

https://www.signwarehouse.com/blog/blog-calibrating-your-digital-knight-heat-press/

 

[JGCMelissa]

The process should be: spray, brush over twice, going the same direction, not up and down, then press for 30 seconds at 330-340 degrees with paper (some use quilon, some use teflon, it seems to be personal preference). The sponge roller is overkill, you should be heat pressing any moisture out.

Sorry, long day and no coffee...I meant silicon paper, not teflon.

 

[DDT Designs]

Whose heat press do you use?

We use GeoKnight & calibrate with this process:

https://www.signwarehouse.com/blog/blog-calibrating-your-digital-knight-heat-press/

HotTronix from Stahl

 

[DDT Designs]

Well followed everyone's tips. Did a bunch of shirts with different amounts of pre treat. Seems the pre treat was not my problem, I just wasn't curing the shirts long enough. Everyone of them passed a wash test with flying colors. Thank all of you for the advice, my stress levels are now back to normal. Or as normal as they can be

Cheers from Canada

 

[treefox2118]

And thank YOU for following up!

 

[Teez310]

Well followed everyone's tips. Did a bunch of shirts with different amounts of pre treat. Seems the pre treat was not my problem, I just wasn't curing the shirts long enough. Everyone of them passed a wash test with flying colors. Thank all of you for the advice, my stress levels are now back to normal. Or as normal as they can be

Cheers from Canada

Hi Johnathan, I just really read thoroughly through your first post, you were doing the final cure at 350 but on 30 secs? I think I mistook that as your pt drying time if so.

 

[DDT Designs]

Pt at 350 for 30 secs then 15 sec intervals until no more steam. Did up some wash tests on the shirts and they come out looking great. I do find though that if I do a print that has a lot of solid colors to it, I need to let it sit for a good 20 min before curing other wise the inks specks off a bit. But I presume that would be a normal thing.

 

[23spiderman]

How are you curing your prints?

 

[DDT Designs]

Silicone paper. Works fine just any print that has a solid color to it needs to set a bit before I toss it back on the heat press other wise it can stick to the paper a bit.

 

[Teez310]

I think what we are aiming for is with your original post; we dont see the cure time you used when flaking and cracking occurred. What were your cure times and what are your cure times now that your washes are good?