The dreaded thick print...how would YOU have done this job differently? - T-Shirt Forums
 

Hi, Unregistered. | Today's Posts

T-Shirt Forums
User Name
Password

Register Today For Free!

Forgot Your Password?





Site Navigation








+   T-Shirt Forums > T-Shirt Industry Information > Screen Printing
Discuss the various aspects of screen printing. Inks, speciality printing, print locations, durability, etc.



The dreaded thick print...how would YOU have done this job differently?

 
Share This Thread Thread Tools
Old July 29th, 2017 Jul 29, 2017 1:46:54 PM -   #1 (permalink)
T-Shirt Lover
T-Shirt Fan

reactiongfx's Avatar
 
You can call me: Kevin
Member Since: Aug 2015
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Thanks: 3
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts


Default The dreaded thick print...how would YOU have done this job differently?

Whenever I have to do an underbase, I always end up with a thick print. For this particular job, the final prints look great, just a bit thick. Not a huge deal on regular t-shirts, but I also have to do some women's Next Level tanks and v-necks with a smaller version of the same design, but those shirts are so light I'm worried about the thick print. How can I address this?? Any input is appreciated. Here is exactly what I did from start to finish...

Screens: Using brand new 180 mesh screens for all three colors. Kiwo Poly Plus SWR diazo emulsion. 2 coats print side, 1 coat ink well side.

Inks: One-Stroke Hybrid white for the base (LOVE this white for most applications), Union Ultrasoft Bright Red and Royal Blue for the top colors.

Print Process: White base - print/flash/print. I do a hard fill stroke (not a FLOOD stroke, just enough ink to fill the stencil) and then print with a push stroke. One medium stroke, flash, then a second light coat just to get a nice, opaque white. Then I flash again, print the red, flash and print the blue. I tried one printing the blue without flashing the red, but I've never had much luck with wet-on-wet as it seems too much ink sticks to the bottom of the next screen and the end results are less than desirable. I know if I flash it for a few seconds this isn't a problem. Since the red and blue are Ultrasoft inks and a pretty thin consistency, I really don't think they are contributing much to the thickness of the print. It's that darn white base coat.

Like I said, the end results LOOK great, they just don't FEEL ideal. Is it just the nature of the beast for a design like this on dark shirts? Is my stencil too thick? Should I maybe try reducing my white just a bit? I really strive for a soft hand and thin print that is comfortable to wear in all conditions, but sometimes I just can't seem to get it. Any and all input is very much appreciated!! THANK YOU!!

Have a look here:
 
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old July 30th, 2017 Jul 30, 2017 2:34:09 AM -   #2 (permalink)
TLK
T-Shirt Lover
T-Shirt Master

TLK's Avatar
 
You can call me: Tud
Member Since: Jan 2013
Location: mid-Wales UK
Posts: 387
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Thanks: 6
Thanked 58 Times in 57 Posts


Default Re: The dreaded thick print...how would YOU have done this job differently?

What not try 4 screens. 1 = Underbase, 2 = Red, 3 = Blue and 4 = Top White. Not much point having ultra soft inks if they are sitting on top of a thick layer of white. You can use a lower mesh for the underbase and a higher mesh for the top colours. You could even reduce the top white with some curable reducer to thin it.
 
Old July 30th, 2017 Jul 30, 2017 7:04:50 AM -   #3 (permalink)
T-Shirt Lover
T-Shirt Fan
Thread Starter

reactiongfx's Avatar
 
You can call me: Kevin
Member Since: Aug 2015
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Thanks: 3
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts


Default Re: The dreaded thick print...how would YOU have done this job differently?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TLK
What not try 4 screens. 1 = Underbase, 2 = Red, 3 = Blue and 4 = Top White. Not much point having ultra soft inks if they are sitting on top of a thick layer of white. You can use a lower mesh for the underbase and a higher mesh for the top colours. You could even reduce the top white with some curable reducer to thin it.
I thought about that. I did read somewhere that that's really the ideal way to do an underbase. I'm only using the Union Ultrasoft inks because I figured opaque inks would definitely add to the thickness of the print and they weren't necessary since I'm printing on a white base. I'm going to try using a bit of curable reducer in my white before I go making new screens. Any suggestion on mesh counts if I do end up going with 4 screens instead of 3? I've got 130/160/180/200 screens on hand.
 
 
Old July 30th, 2017 Jul 30, 2017 7:52:12 AM -   #4 (permalink)
TLK
T-Shirt Lover
T-Shirt Master

TLK's Avatar
 
You can call me: Tud
Member Since: Jan 2013
Location: mid-Wales UK
Posts: 387
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Thanks: 6
Thanked 58 Times in 57 Posts


Default Re: The dreaded thick print...how would YOU have done this job differently?

It's always a toss up between opacity and thickness of print. One of the best ways is to use a discharge underbase but then you need to be able to cure that properly. Try the 130 for the underbase with a good solid hit making sure you clear the mesh of ink. Using a hard fill stroke like you said, will help. You don't have to have a totally solid white underbase so p/f/p on the underbase is overkill and you might find the tops colours wont adhere to it as well. The 180 or the 200's for the top colours should work fine.
 
Old July 30th, 2017 Jul 30, 2017 9:38:09 AM -   #5 (permalink)
T-Shirt Lover
T-Shirt Fan
Thread Starter

reactiongfx's Avatar
 
You can call me: Kevin
Member Since: Aug 2015
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Thanks: 3
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts


Default Re: The dreaded thick print...how would YOU have done this job differently?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TLK
It's always a toss up between opacity and thickness of print. One of the best ways is to use a discharge underbase but then you need to be able to cure that properly. Try the 130 for the underbase with a good solid hit making sure you clear the mesh of ink. Using a hard fill stroke like you said, will help. You don't have to have a totally solid white underbase so p/f/p on the underbase is overkill and you might find the tops colours wont adhere to it as well. The 180 or the 200's for the top colours should work fine.
Thanks! Since I'm already half way through the run of t-shirts, I'm going to experiment with just reducing the white slightly to see if I can thin out the final print at all. Like I said, it looks great, and it's not the thickest print I've ever felt, just thicker than I'd like, and definitely too thick for those lightweight Next Level Women's shirts. I guess I'm going to have to make some new screens before I print the women's shirts. I'll go with 130 for the base and 180 for the rest. I'm also going to try 1/1 on my emulsion instead of 2/1.

While it is something I'd like to get into in the future, I'm not really set up for printing discharge/water based as I don't have any forced air. I ordered some Union Plasticharge and tried it once with horrible results and just haven't had a chance to give it another go. Even with that, forced air definitely helps. For now, I'm still all plastisol.
 
Old February 10th, 2019 Feb 10, 2019 2:18:58 PM -   #6 (permalink)
T-Shirt Lover
T-Shirt Fan

Jetstarz99's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2016
Posts: 69
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts


Default Re: The dreaded thick print...how would YOU have done this job differently?

Quote:
Originally Posted by reactiongfx
Whenever I have to do an underbase, I always end up with a thick print.
I am in the same boat. Always trying to get opacity and soft hand.

One thing I have noticed on some shirts is how soft the hand is
ever on a thick print. More of a soft 'rubber' feel as opposed to
a harsher 'plastic' feel.

I know the rubbery feel sounds negative but compared to scratchy
plastic, it is much better, even on really thick prints.

Trouble is, I don't know who makes these more rubbery inks.
When I started most inks were more like this. Now I print almost
exclusively Poly One/Wilflex, which I like except for this white issue.

Same with a poly ink for tech type shirts. Wilflex poly ink is not
soft no matter how thin I print it. I felt a client poly shirt and the
very bright white was velvety soft even though very thick.

I would love to find these other inks. Anyone have a clue?

Thanks
 
Old February 18th, 2019 Feb 18, 2019 7:19:04 PM -   #7 (permalink)
T-Shirt Lover
T-Shirt Fan

jwpintn's Avatar
 
You can call me: wes
Member Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Thanks: 3
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts


Default

I second going 4 colors, underbase on 230, top colors on 200, and you could even put your highlight white on 230, or like the other guy said, you could discharge the underbase.
 
Old February 18th, 2019 Feb 18, 2019 7:22:18 PM -   #8 (permalink)
T-Shirt Lover
T-Shirt Fan

jwpintn's Avatar
 
You can call me: wes
Member Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Thanks: 3
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts


Default

I've actually put an underbase on 305, and everything else on 200, 230, 280, and use 280, 200 combo quite a bit
 
Old February 19th, 2019 Feb 19, 2019 5:13:45 PM -   #9 (permalink)
TSF Veteran
Certified T-Shirt Junkie

sben763's Avatar
 
You can call me: Sean
Member Since: May 2009
Location: Indiana
Posts: 8,111
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Thanks: 205
Thanked 1,593 Times in 1,479 Posts


Default Re: The dreaded thick print...how would YOU have done this job differently?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetstarz99
I am in the same boat. Always trying to get opacity and soft hand.

One thing I have noticed on some shirts is how soft the hand is
ever on a thick print. More of a soft 'rubber' feel as opposed to
a harsher 'plastic' feel.

I know the rubbery feel sounds negative but compared to scratchy
plastic, it is much better, even on really thick prints.

Trouble is, I don't know who makes these more rubbery inks.
When I started most inks were more like this. Now I print almost
exclusively Poly One/Wilflex, which I like except for this white issue.

Same with a poly ink for tech type shirts. Wilflex poly ink is not
soft no matter how thin I print it. I felt a client poly shirt and the
very bright white was velvety soft even though very thick.

I would love to find these other inks. Anyone have a clue?

Thanks


I use the Union maxopake inks. Use softhand on most colors, and reducer on some. Mostly white and yellow. Not much on most. This gives it the softhand of the ultrasoft while still having way more pigment. Some of the runny colors I don't touch. Reducing ink and higher mesh is the only way I can get soft print using plastisol and Ive tried One Stroke, Wilflex, Excalibur, International Coatings, QCM and several others. I have some simulated prints that have been mistaken for waterbase


I know the original post is old but for example if customer is willing to pay for 4 screens or its your own brand then this is way Id go but the underbase would be Union cotton white or the Eclipse for low bleed. Softhand and reducer and more then normal. Higher mesh either 205 or 272 for me. My mesh is roller mesh so that's like a 230 and 305 in static mesh. flash colors and a reduced highlight white.


You can still get a fairly light print with 3 screens. Recuced and softhand white on same high mesh but print flash print and reduced colors on top.
__________________
"Expecting the world to be fair just cause you are fair to them is like expecting a lion not to eat you just cause you don't eat lion"
 
Old February 19th, 2019 Feb 19, 2019 5:17:43 PM -   #10 (permalink)
TSF Veteran
Certified T-Shirt Junkie

sben763's Avatar
 
You can call me: Sean
Member Since: May 2009
Location: Indiana
Posts: 8,111
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Thanks: 205
Thanked 1,593 Times in 1,479 Posts


Default Re: The dreaded thick print...how would YOU have done this job differently?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwpintn
I've actually put an underbase on 305, and everything else on 200, 230, 280, and use 280, 200 combo quite a bit
Print flash print a 305 with a reduced softhand and light reducer gives better opacity uses less ink then a singe hit 110 or 156. I've weighted shirts before and after print to prove it.
__________________
"Expecting the world to be fair just cause you are fair to them is like expecting a lion not to eat you just cause you don't eat lion"
 
Old February 19th, 2019 Feb 19, 2019 5:31:16 PM -   #11 (permalink)
T-Shirt Lover
T-Shirt Fan

Jetstarz99's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2016
Posts: 69
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts


Default Re: The dreaded thick print...how would YOU have done this job differently?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sben763
Print flash print a 305 with a reduced softhand and light reducer gives better opacity uses less ink then a singe hit 110 or 156. I've weighted shirts before and after print to prove it.
Are you meaning a 'soft hand' reducer? I use wilflex so
something like Fashion Soft instead of curable reducer, to thin
enough to put through a 305?

I have print flash printed with a 230 for sim process and get decent
results but if there are large white areas it still a little scratchy rough
feeling. It is not bad to wear, but if you run your hand over it, not
that nice.

I guess we are still waiting for that pie in the sky magical white,
that prints like butter, opacity like sheet metal but hand soft like
velvet.....I swear there is a billion to be made if such an ink were created.

I don't mind a thick print, especially on hoodies etc, if the surface feel is soft.
I am wearing a hoodie right now, that has really really thick ink, almost 3D,
but to touch it it is rubbery soft and I like it, wish I printed it because I would know how it was made!

Last edited by Jetstarz99; February 19th, 2019 at 05:35 PM.. Reason: additional info
 
Old February 19th, 2019 Feb 19, 2019 5:50:30 PM -   #12 (permalink)
TSF Veteran
Certified T-Shirt Junkie

sben763's Avatar
 
You can call me: Sean
Member Since: May 2009
Location: Indiana
Posts: 8,111
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Thanks: 205
Thanked 1,593 Times in 1,479 Posts


Default Re: The dreaded thick print...how would YOU have done this job differently?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetstarz99
Are you meaning a 'soft hand' reducer? I use wilflex so
something like Fashion Soft instead of curable reducer, to thin
enough to put through a 305?

I have print flash printed with a 230 for sim process and get decent
results but if there are large white areas it still a little scratchy rough
feeling. It is not bad to wear, but if you run your hanf over it, not
that nice.

I guess we are still waiting for that pie in the sky magical white,
that prints like butter, opacity like sheet metal but hand soft like
velvet.....I swear there is a billion to be made if such an ink were created.

Union has soft hand base, it reduces the hand without much viscosity reduction. then add reducer as needed. Softest white you'll ever print. Especially a Print flash print though a (272) 305. I have 300 and 380 but 272 is my 305.


I do it daily but I swear every gallon is different as long its not from same batch with white no matter the brand. I like the Maxopake cause with the sofhand and reducer and high mesh goes a long way still has more pigment then their ultrasoft and hand is better.
__________________
"Expecting the world to be fair just cause you are fair to them is like expecting a lion not to eat you just cause you don't eat lion"
 
Old February 20th, 2019 Feb 20, 2019 6:23:53 AM -   #13 (permalink)
T-Shirt Lover
T-Shirt Aficionado

Industryps's Avatar
 
You can call me: Ryan
Member Since: Aug 2016
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 292
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Thanks: 12
Thanked 50 Times in 47 Posts


Default Re: The dreaded thick print...how would YOU have done this job differently?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetstarz99
wish I printed it because I would know how it was made!
Most likely silicone ink for the second hit. When used properly, has the exact qualities you described: super thick and stretchy with an almost High Density feel, but yet somehow still very soft and flexible
__________________
Instagram@industryprintshop Website-industryprintshop.com
 






This is a discussion about The dreaded thick print...how would YOU have done this job differently? that was posted in the Screen Printing section of the forums.

Quick Reply
Type Your Message Below:
Do NOT Post Self Promotional URLs, Advertisements, Sales Offers or Requests. It is against our Forum Guidelines.
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the T-Shirt Forums, you must first register.


Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

Your username must be between 2 and 16 characters and contain only letters and numbers (no special characters like hyphens, *, ', ~, etc)
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

A confirmation email will be sent to this address, so please make sure it is accurate and that your email software is set to allow emails from our domain: t-shirtforums.com (sometimes the confirmation email gets accidently filtered into Yahoo/AOL/Hotmail/Gmail spam folders)
.

You won't be able to post until your email address has been confirmed. We take your privacy very seriously. Feel free to review our Privacy Policy in a new window.
Email Address:
First Name
It's nice to be able to be on a "first name" basis with the people you talk to in a forum. This is a totally optional field; if you like being on a first name basis, please enter your first name below :)

Log-in


Thread Tools

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Print and cut?? seeker99 Printers and Inks for Inkjet and Laser Transfers 1 July 27th, 2017 05:44 AM
Identify print type??? Nortz89 Screen Printing 0 May 17th, 2017 11:27 AM
Digital factory Tip: Print A Design With A Grunge Border gatorGRAFIX Epson SureColor DTG Printers 6 November 11th, 2015 11:08 PM
[DTG Brand] DTG M2 Left Platen Print Alignment Problem anzdra DTG Brand 3 September 17th, 2015 01:58 AM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2014 T-ShirtForums.com. All rights reserved.