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Discuss the different plastisol screen printing inks and curing methods on the market. Share tips on getting the best results with the different ink manufacturers.



Printing Red ink

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Old September 13th, 2014 Sep 13, 2014 2:24:36 PM -   #16 (permalink)
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Cool Re: Printing Red ink

Hmmm...

Two or three hits of expensive ink versus a cheap white under base...

I have high pigment reds but I use them solely for mixing. They are almost twice the price of my Rutland Scarlett. I do 1 hit of Rutland Snap White under all the colours in a design because it is way more cost effective.

1 Hit of white is plenty to make red, yellow, green and blue pop on darks...

Of course you don't have to use an under base, but it saves time and money... Lets say you've got a red and yellow print on a black T. You have to hit the red 2-3 times and the yellow likewise. You are using 2-3 times the ink(at twice the cost) and have effectively turned a three colour print; White/Red/Yellow into a four to six colour print; Red/Red/Red/Yellow/Yellow/Yellow.
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Old September 13th, 2014 Sep 13, 2014 2:36:49 PM -   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Printing Red ink

Hmmmmm.....

How does it save does it save you so much time and money exactly? Your emulsion is free? The extra screen? Reclaiming supplies? Tape? Chemicals? Etc?

How does the extra time to register the extra screen on press play into it? How exactly does introducing another screen into the process equate to "saving time" exactly?

The extra cost for a high opacity ink equates to PENNIES per print.

Guess it depends on the amount of light vs dark tees one prints? I can tell you that printing retail I sell 99.999999% dark tees. Underbasing and the time expended makes no sense. I can have everything registered quickly and printed and done quickly. If you're spend 2-3X per print then you are globbing the ink on and I guess must have bullet-proof prints. Or maybe you are using the wrong inks? Dunno what to tell you.

My high opacity inks last way, way longer than standard inks, and I print thousands of shirts, tanks and hoodies on a retail level.

Regardless, I was giving the OP another option.
 
Old September 13th, 2014 Sep 13, 2014 2:49:07 PM -   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: Printing Red ink

PS - Using One Stroke Inks as an example which is what I use, although I am converting over to 100% waterbased. High Opacity Scarlet is $25 more than standard Scarlet. Hardly 2 or 3 times the cost.
 
 
Old September 13th, 2014 Sep 13, 2014 3:05:08 PM -   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: Printing Red ink

We're not all working with Retail profit margins...

I pay about 50 bucks more for a gallon of opaque scarlett, about 50% more...

I'm also saying if you hit the red 2-3 times you're using 2-3 times the amount of ink that you would with an underbase and that ink is 50% more expensive. Then there is the time involved in sending that shirt around 2 or 3 times more than necessary...

I would do a Red/White print on a black T as a 3 colour job because of these reasons. I wouldn't shortcut it and do it as a 2 and hit the white underbase twice and red once because of the thickness.

With a light stroke backer, then the white, then the red, I can get a fairly soft hand(for plas) and still get the red to pop.

I like the waterbase hand and would like to transition into it also, but I'm too invested in plastisol to switch over...
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Old September 13th, 2014 Sep 13, 2014 3:21:38 PM -   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: Printing Red ink

I'm not sure why everyone thinks that retails has such vastly superior profit margins?

I'm not trying to be argumentative here but it's been mentioned a number of times on the forum in the past.

Reality is that those of us who do our own thing and print retail have lots more expenses. Shipping, tags, tag printing, mailers, postage accounts, time spent at the post office, etc. That all adds up. Not to mention if your product is carried by any retail outlets, they are taking a nice cut too. That works more like printing jobs where you need to push quantity.

I understand where you are coming from in regards to cost. But in reality for me it's pennies per print literally. I do a style of print (with plastisol) that takes a bit more time anyway. I build up the print with higher mesh screens, so I actually use less ink even with high opacity inks. The end result is a print that is remarkably, or as close to a waterbased print as possible. It takes me more time to expose and register an extra screen on press.

RE - Waterbase. I felt the same way. But in reality, I wasn't too invested in plastisol. I am still using my same flash and conveyor with fine results. The only consideration was my stencils. But I converted over to dual cure late last year in anticipation. Of course, I want to upgrade the dryer and flash next to be a bit more efficient. But we will be moving fairly soon, so I'm stuck with what I got for the meantime.

Speaking of screens....that is one way the use of High Opacity inks washes for me and doesn't really cost me extra. All those extra screens I might be using as underbase screens could be being used right now for a new design that could be making me money right away. If the design does well.
 
Old September 13th, 2014 Sep 13, 2014 3:26:37 PM -   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: Printing Red ink

PS - In my goodbye to plastisol thread I mentioned the permaset supercover inks blew me away. Very true. 2 hits scarlet on a black american apparel through a 200 mesh no underbase (of course), and I was shellshocked at the coverage and opacity. I've never seen anything like it. No hand as well. Easy clean up. Etc....

Downside is that their inks are even more expensive than one stroke plastisols. But so far, I'm using way less ink. I might have to raise some shirt prices by a $1 next year possibly. BUT, I now that customers have the new waterbased prints in their hands they are going nuts over them.
 
Old September 13th, 2014 Sep 13, 2014 3:29:54 PM -   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: Printing Red ink

Yea, I use dual cure. I always have because I use a variety of inks. My dryer is also plenty long and I was sure to get one with air because of the vinyl inks and some flat stock water based inks I use... My supplier is old school plastisol and he keeps trying to discourage me from H2O but I think it's such a nicer print I'm going to ease into it...

There's also more planning and time management involved because you can't leave screens up, they need to be cleaned immediately... Plastisol is pretty nice that way.
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Old September 13th, 2014 Sep 13, 2014 3:34:24 PM -   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: Printing Red ink

You know...I loved plastisol for that reason. Could leave my screens up all night, week, month if I wanted. BUT, for me, I tend to start getting messy. Leaving ink knives covered in plastisol etc. WHich is weird because if I did that in the house I would go insane.

But the thing with waterbased FOR ME, is that as soon as I'm done printing a design...ink is back in the bucket, bucket wiped down, spatula cleaned. Then off to the sink where the screen is washed out and the squeegee as well. DUnno...on one hand it's a pain in the ***. On the other, it's really teaching me to be a bit more disciplined around the shop. If that makes any sense?

I'm also printing MUCH faster.

Before I would just leave a knife covered in ink because I knew I'd be back in the shop in the morning and no harm done really.
 
Old September 13th, 2014 Sep 13, 2014 3:39:27 PM -   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: Printing Red ink

Yup...

Good printing habits make everything run much smoother, but it's easy to get lazy(wrong term) after a 12 hour run...

Apparently, it's not a dual cure Im using'its photo polymer? But it can be used with all inks.

Chromaline 787.
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Last edited by phatdaddy; September 13th, 2014 at 08:15 PM..
 
Old September 14th, 2014 Sep 14, 2014 8:06:01 AM -   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: Printing Red ink

Quote:
Originally Posted by phatdaddy
Two screens. Correct. You should trap the white(make it slightly smaller than the red) The best way to do this is add a 1-2 point black stroke around the red positive, or a white stroke around the white positive.
can you PLEASE this to me...i never claimed to be bright

i dont know what a "point stroke" is. "around the positive"?


thanks! been learning a lot here.

~Jason
 
Old September 14th, 2014 Sep 14, 2014 8:16:11 AM -   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: Printing Red ink

Quote:
Originally Posted by phatdaddy
Yup...

Good printing habits make everything run much smoother, but it's easy to get lazy(wrong term) after a 12 hour run...

Apparently, it's not a dual cure Im using'its photo polymer? But it can be used with all inks.

Chromaline 787.
I'm using the Saati PHU good stuff photpolymer as well. But it can be used with all inks as well with a good post-exposure. Like all my screens I sit them out in the sun for a few hours after I rinse them out.

In the winter I usually switch over to the Ryonet stuff. Can't remember the name - WBP - maybe? Due to the higher humidity levels in the winter it can be tough to get photopolymer to thoroughly dry. The issue with the WBP (if that is the correct name) is that it's diazo and I'm not much a fan of Diazo based for the obvious reasons. Of course here in SoCal, photopolymer has issues in the summer because temps in the shop can reach 120+. I've started storing photopolymer in the house now, so hope that helps keep it good.
 
Old September 14th, 2014 Sep 14, 2014 8:33:58 AM -   #27 (permalink)
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Default Re: Printing Red ink

any tips on getting the red on black to really stand out when it's just really thin lines? tried laying a underbase down, but when the lines are pencil thin it makes it really difficult to register and line up perfectly. atleast for me anyways.
 
Old September 14th, 2014 Sep 14, 2014 8:43:56 AM -   #28 (permalink)
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Default Re: Printing Red ink

Quote:
Originally Posted by insideouttees
any tips on getting the red on black to really stand out when it's just really thin lines? tried laying a underbase down, but when the lines are pencil thin it makes it really difficult to register and line up perfectly. atleast for me anyways.
Like I wrote in an earlier post, try a high opacity red. If you just want to experiment, order a pint of hi-opacity red from Ryonet for a few $$$. If you want a much better ink call Megan at One Stroke Inks and ask for a sample of Hybrid Red, or Aquasilk Red, or both. It'll be $5 per sample. Both leave a really soft hand if you're technique is right. Aquasilk is a bit softer and is supposed to be the plastisol answer to water-based. I find both can be just as soft when printed correctly.

As we discussed earlier, yes high opacity inks are more expensive by a bit. BUT the time saved on making and registering an underbase screen is worth it - to me.

Ryonet's ink is pretty good. But it does have a glossier finish. One Stroke will give a softer hand and is matte.
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Old September 14th, 2014 Sep 14, 2014 9:59:27 AM -   #29 (permalink)
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Default Re: Printing Red ink

Quote:
Originally Posted by FiveOneSix
can you PLEASE this to me...i never claimed to be bright

i dont know what a "point stroke" is. "around the positive"?


thanks! been learning a lot here.

~Jason
A 2 point stroke is an outline. If you're using illustrator it's easy enough to do, if you're using photoshop select the image and either expand or contract your selection by 2 pixels...

There are a variety of ways of doing it...

But you want the end result to be that your underbase is slightly smaller than the top coat.

You can also use the same positive and for the underbase screen place some thin clear material between the positive and the screen when you shoot. This will allow the light to sneak around the positive and will result itn the same contraction of the image.
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Old September 18th, 2014 Sep 18, 2014 8:20:22 AM -   #30 (permalink)
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Default Re: Printing Red ink

I assume a underbase is always needed on black shirts?
 






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