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Guess what ... down again :(

16K views 123 replies 24 participants last post by  gatorGRAFIX 
#1 ·
This will be the third time in 9 mos our printer has gone down, Same issue everytime losing one white channel, do head cleanings and comes back print one shirt and drops again. Well its time to make a big decision for me and i think its time to say goodbye to the epson....

At this rate when the warranty is up that means i would have to replace the print head 3 times in a year, NO THANKS! Its not like the machine sits either i print 10 hours a day mostly 6 days a week!!!!

Frustrated!!!!
 
#68 ·
Epson needs to sell white ink for less, I am sorry to say. How else can they justify the useless cleanings, especially the extra ones needed as the printer ages.
Color ink gives 0 problems, and white ink 100%, so they are selling a machine that is not equipped to even print the ink they are selling yet. Its one thing to buy some frankenstien DTG printer that is pieced together(no offence others) but if you are selling a 100% Epson branded machine, you would expect less problems.
The fact is Epson seems to have all the issues of any other DTG printer, but the downside of more expensive ink ? lol The upside is they will throw money into the problem(if you consider that a upside) but it will cost you in the end either way.
 
#70 ·
I know there have been many people that feel that Epson hasn't been as stable as they expected. From being in this DTG industry for 5 years now I can tell you without hesitation it is the one of if not the most stable machines on the market. Yes they have had problems and yes the ink is expensive compared to others but sleeping well at night knowing if there is an issue a tech will be there to fix it soon is valuble. Some people find this to me more valuable than others just as some people feel a 100K mile warranty is more valuable on a Kia than a 50K mile warranty is on twice as expensive Lexus.

I totally understand the loss in wages and down time when your printer isn't functioning at 100% but anyone that has owned a previous generation DTG printer and upgraded to the F2000 can't deny how strong of a printer it truly is. If you are just now getting into DTG and feel the Epson is not reliable...you shouldve been here a few years ago when getting 10 shirts to print in a row without error was a unicorn lol.

I am a HUGE fan of Epson's inks and while expensive, the washability and coverage is wonderful!! I have recommended the F2000 to many businesses and continue to recommend it to people everyday. Depending on your business model, budget and expectations it can be the perfect fit!! However there is really no "one size fits all" dtg printer out there (yet).
 
#75 ·
well said!!! i researched for years before even thinking of getting into DTG and i can say the Epson is miles ahead of other printers. Every time the machine does go down the techs fix it and epson asks no questions. Now with the extended warranty revised i cant and wont buy another printer but an epson. Things will get better and they already have is what im hearing.
 
#71 ·
From a business operators perspective, and someone that sells t shirts at a retail level for $20-30$ each US including shipping($2.50) I can tell you that once the warranty runs out, you wont be sleeping so well at night anymore, you will be having nightmares of the bills Epson will stick you with for your parts and service calls.

If I sell 500 T Shirts a month(around 15-16 a day) at $20 each, that is only 10k gross. Minus out overhead, labor, INK, and every other little cost you can think of & what is left ? NOTHINGGGGGGGGG You need to be selling minimum 700 T Shirts a month, and one person cannot market, and make everything themself to create 15-30 sales a day at a retail price point.

If you are selling large volume like 50-100-200+ t shirts of the same design in 1 batch you are making even less per shirt because you are now competing with screen printers, and other printers, and you need to print 2000-3000-4000+ shirts a month, which the Epson cannot even handle alone! so you are stuck in a weird position.

I am sorry to say, but the truth is the truth, and its time people are told straight up, if your business does not fit an exact model, your going to waste a lot of time and money.

I have like 6 different websites online selling various niche T Shirts at the highest price possible, and if you are not doing the same, I invite you to share with us how your turning a profit of more then 5k a month with 1 Epson printer.
I am inviting everyone to share. If people are so confident about the Epson, share your business model, and how fast you made your 15k or whatever you invested back.
 
#73 ·
The Epson can EASILY handle 10's of thousands of prints without any issues...some people have experienced more than others but to say it can't be done is completely wrong. Even thinking that you are in competition with screen printers is not the correct way to view the DTG industry. It's like saying that Ruth's Chris is in competition with Ponderossa...both sell steak right??

Will there be components that wear out on your DTG printer? Yes
Will there be components that wear out on your brand new car? Yes

Anything and everything mechanical has maintenance/consumable expenses associated to them. What's the difference??? The difference is that in 99% of cases, the F2000 printer will easily generate $10's of thousands of dollars in revenue prior to needing a major service. The cost to maintain vs the revenue generated from the printer should be negligible.

I have made over $15k in a single week with DTG on a single order. I have owned a retail brick and mortar along with an online fulfillment company. I wanted to average 50-100 shirts every single day. If you can produce 100 shirts a day constantly the F2000 should pay for itself within 30 days. I know of many MANY DTG users with dozens of printers in their facility..in fact the largest fulfillment company in the world has over 200 DTG printers in one location!

Finding your niche and making the most out of your market is the key to being successful with any garment decorating business. It's not like you can go out and buy a 20 color automatic press and instantly start obtaining printing contracts for Nike or something. It takes time, capital and a solid business plan to be successful at any decorating technique.

Most DTG'ers follow 1 of 3 or a combination of these business models:

1. Online Fulfillment - either your own sites or fulfillment for other sites / shops

2. Custom Clothing Brand - your own or someone elses name brand/private label

3. Retail - mall kiosks, small brick and mortar shop
 
#77 ·
We have been printing DTG for over 5 years and fully understand the challenges with this technology. The overall quality and speed of the Epson is great. Where I have my issue is that when we decided to change to the Epson it was based on the reported minimal maintenance requirements and the service aspect that led me to believe I would no longer need to be a printer mechanic. From my experience, the frequency of issues is greater than with our old DTG printer. With the old printer we replaced the cap station every 4 to 6 months and I always had one on hand so when the printer went down it was for 30 mins. With the Epson we are down every 2 to 3 months and it takes 24 to 48 hours to be back in busine$$. Changing the pump station on the F2000 is easier than the 48xx based printers but we can't get the parts or do it ourselves. If the frequency of issues were less it would not be as big of an issue for me. Also, if there were signs that it was starting to fail I could get the tech in before we are shut down. All this being said the service techs and responsiveness from Epson has been top notch. If I knew these issues up front my expectations would have been different but I probably still would have gone with the Epson. I am confident that Epson will get this figured out.
 
#83 ·
The last I heard it was $1995 for each of the extended years...and agree that at this time..seems like until they resolve the issue we will have to keep the warranty as it looks like new print head and CR Ducts about every 4 to 6 months at this point...It does sound high, but I am amazed at how much I spent a year on parts for my first DTG printer
 
#88 ·
You mean like every single equipment manufacturer in the world? I, as most, would consider Mercedes-Benz to produce some of the best and most expensive luxury cars in the world. Yet they offer an extended warranty that's not free...so are they producing a subpar product?
Mercedes-Benz Extended Warranty Info

I think it's a wonderful thing that Epson is providing this option to owners. The amount of profit that the machine can generate for you greatly out weighs the expense of the extended warranty. Just my $.02
 
#91 ·
You are absolutely right. The extended warranty doesn't imply dodgy workmanship.

But the real question is this:

Based on the info about the long-term reliability of a product, do you have to be brave (or even reckless) NOT buying an extended warranty, or buying one would be just a simple "peace of mind" decision?

For a Toyota or Lexus I wouldn't buy extended warranty but for a Yugo I'd almost HAVE TO. (If I'd be stupid enough even considering of buying a Yugo.) :)
 
#92 ·
The comparison with Mercedes misses the point. An extended warranty might make sense for issues that suddenly show up after years of usage.

Users' experience with the white channels hint at a built-in mistake in the printer which already leads to problems after a few months and cannot be prevented from happening again. In this case an extended warranty seems to be a rip off.
 
#94 ·
OK, so I have to have at least two EPSON printers in my shop or keep an EPSON tech in the closet to be able to offer rush orders or same day delivery service... :)

In the last five years, we had zero down time with our Brother CMYK DTG, Roland Eco-Sol wide format and sublimation printers, CAMS rhinestone placement robot, Tajima embroidery machine, Roland vinyl cutter.

Reclining on technicians is good, having no issues is MUCH BETTER...
 
#97 · (Edited)
Eric, good opinion. It reminds me below story which my teacher told us when I was in elementary school.
Once a upon a time there was a weapon seller in flea market.
He set up table and displayed spears and yell "this spear can go through any shield, no shield can stop this". People believed him and soon all were sold out. After he counted his money. He reached under table and bring out shields and yelled again "nothing can go through this shield". He sold out again and went home for family. I heard he still making both best spears and best shields.:)
Cheers! Beers are on me always.
 
#98 · (Edited)
Just to clarify my point:

1.) I am NOT SAYING that some maintenance requirement and - once in a while - some down time in a system is unacceptable.

2.) I am NOT SAYING that the EPSON 2000 is an unacceptably unreliable printer. I really don't know; I don't have one, I don't collect data about it to create statistics.

3.) What I AM SAYING is that the white ink definitely creates a lot of extra problems comparing it to CMYK only DTG printing or for other forms of garment embellishment technologies.

4.) What I AM SAYING is that QUANTITY can transition to QUALITY. If we continuously increase the number of problems in a system, there is a point where a new quality emerges that is much worse than the previous quality of the same system.

If you have a printing system that needs daily, weekly, monthly maintenance, needs regular spare part replacements, breaks down and needs expensive repairs, unforgiving for certain business models, etc., there is a chance that we are not far from the point where the good overall quality turns into a bad quality.

Every business model is different, every person has his or her preferences and dis-preferences. Maybe I am too spoiled with all of our systems but I'd never invest into a new one if there would be a high probability that the new system's numerous new problems could create a new (much worse) overall QUALITY in our business.
 
#99 ·
I have gone up and down all year long with this printer, i lost money due to being down and made even more money being up and running, all in all this printer has made us more money in the last 12 months than we have every made in any other of our business ventures! I have done vinyl, i have tried screen printing with a company, i have done transfers and other things stickers, decals, etc etc. The Epson DTG Printer by far has made us the most profit out of any i have tried, so i will stick with it and continue to make money hand over fist with this machine. If you cant do it maybe its not the printer maybe its lack of experience running a business, or simply the business model is not right. Eitherway we invested in the Epson and will stick by it as long as its making us money.
 
#100 · (Edited)
Every single printer on the market have pros and cons. It is your job to research to find which will be the best fit to you. If you cannot find the answer in TSF. No where else will give you the answer.
I always tell people who are searching printer "how long it took you to save $xxxxxx? Just spend 1% of the time in TSF". And request samples with your own art!!!!! Not seller's.
Every single re-seller(myself included) will express Pros more without intention. Huh! Sometimes with intention. Lol
Cheers to NeoFamily! Beers are on me always.
 
#102 ·
Who's attitude? Me? I don't have attitude. At least try not to have one but time to time it sneaks out. Lol.
Any way I do like your courage! That's the Man's way. We all starts small like barn fire. Some will dismiss, some will gets bigger by the moments.
2nd one usually fueled by Man's guts. Best wish to you.
Cheers to NeoFamily! Beers are on me always.
 
#105 ·
How much of you F2000 owners do not sell directly to end user, on market with tight margin, beeing a dtg subcontractor ?

Or with your experience with this machine, do you think you could survive beeing a DTG subcontractor only ? meaning less profit per print as you do not sell directly to end user ?
 
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