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Kornit Inks vs. Dupont / R&H

 
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Old June 2nd, 2007 Jun 2, 2007 12:43:17 PM -   #1 (permalink)
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Default Kornit Inks vs. Dupont / R&H

I made this same thread on another forum in the past, but I figured the members here would find some value in it as well. I used to own a Flexi-Jet (I was one of the very first to receive my machine when the company first released them early last year), but I recently sold it and went the Kornit route. One reason was the print quality of the Kornit compared to ANY other DTG printer on the market.

Now, keep in mind that I am not saying that you can't get GREAT results from almost any DTG (trust me, I have learned in the last couple of years that almost ANY DTG printer can print phenomenal results, if you learn how to manipulate the artwork and the printer settings). What I am implying is, there is a base difference between the inks that the Kornit uses, compared to ANY other DTG. The big difference? DuPont and R&H inks (and all others I have seen) dye directly into the fabric of the shirt. The individual fibers are soaked with ink, but oftentimes not all the way through. Therefore, only ONE angle of the fibers are covered. As long as they never move, the shirt will look GREAT. But we all know that the minute you wash a garment, fibers shift or turn ever so slightly, and this runs the risk of exposing the UNsoaked side of many fibers, creating the illusion that the print has faded (when in fact it has not).

With the Kornit inks, they sit on TOP of the fibers, sealing them in. This creates a nice, opaque layer of ink that will not appear to fade just because the fibers might shift. In fact, it actually helps keep the fibers in PLACE, resulting in better long term washability. Additionally, it creates an opportunity for a more vibrant print, with no shirt texture showing through to draw the eye's attention.

Below you will find some examples. Keep in mind, the Flexi print was printed at 360 ENHANCED, single pass, and looks pretty good when set alone by itself. It is NOT until we compare them side by side that the human eye notices the difference. This is a phenomenon we notice will most DTG prints - they look great until you hold them up to screen printing of the same image, and then suddenly they do not look nearly as good. Not saying they are not acceptable - just noting the very nature of DTG printing.







So what can be done to combat this phenomenon? First of all, with the less viscous DTG inks that everybody uses, you can print each image DOUBLE PASS and the washability will greatly improve. This is NOT because the inks "fade" less, because as we determined, most of the "fading" is in reality the fibers in the shirt shifting. Therefore, if we saturate more ink into the fibers so more angles of each individual strand are covered, then there is less of a chance that an uncovered fiber will be exposed. Also, from what I understand, printing with DUAL CMYK works pretty well. Now, the less viscous inks will never look as opaque as the Kornit inks, which carry a viscosity level about THREE TIMES HIGHER than the R&H CMYK, but they can certainly help reduce and eliminate most of the opacity or washability concerns that many clients bring up when dealing with DTG printing vs. screen printing.
 
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Old June 2nd, 2007 Jun 2, 2007 2:27:02 PM -   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kornit Inks vs. Dupont / R&H

Hi Justin,
I'd like to see a sample of the artwork that was used for printing. It almost looks as if the the Kornit did 2 passes where maybe the Flexi did only 1?
The claim that the Kornit Inks are better because they sit on top of the fabric unlike Dupont's / R&H would not account for the color differences of the 2 images you posted.

With the Kiosk, if you did 2 prints, the first one with a single pass and the second one with 2 passes and put them next to each other, you would have very similar images.

Now that I have the heat press on, I'd like to try that and post it.
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Old June 2nd, 2007 Jun 2, 2007 3:41:25 PM -   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kornit Inks vs. Dupont / R&H

The Kornit was printed single pass, as well. That is my main point - the inks are so much more viscous (as I mentioned, THREE TIMES as thick) that they are far more opaque and less penetrating in just one pass.

On my Flexi, or on any other small DTG printer, it would require multiple passes to even come close (although the ink would still be penetrating, not setting).

The color difference is simply because each machine uses different color profiles, nothing more. Of course, the inks themselves maintain different hues, and therefore even with identical color profiles they would still not turn out the same (color wise). Each piece of artwork should be tweaked and adjusted to get the colors to where they need to be, not just printed straight. The point of this demo was not color matching, but single pass opacity.
 
 
Old June 2nd, 2007 Jun 2, 2007 4:05:24 PM -   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kornit Inks vs. Dupont / R&H

Good post Justin. I think I see a bit of Black "misting" on the flexi sample also. Is that a black hairline between the Royal and Red in "Dave's"?

Ian
 
Old June 2nd, 2007 Jun 2, 2007 5:35:30 PM -   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kornit Inks vs. Dupont / R&H

Ya know, I am not quite certain. lol I printed this job a long time ago, and these pictures were taken quite some time ago. The artwork was provided by the client, in a ready-to-print format. I will look at the artwork to see if I can see a black divider line...
 
Old June 2nd, 2007 Jun 2, 2007 5:36:58 PM -   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kornit Inks vs. Dupont / R&H

No black line in the artwork, although there IS a very thin line that is a darker blue than the actual lettering... It is only a pixel or two wide in the areas it DOES exist, and is not consistent throughout.
 
Old June 2nd, 2007 Jun 2, 2007 6:02:47 PM -   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kornit Inks vs. Dupont / R&H

Justin,

T hanks, Excellent art prep info on your site by the way.

Ian
 
Old June 2nd, 2007 Jun 2, 2007 6:10:01 PM -   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kornit Inks vs. Dupont / R&H

Thank you sir. Tom put the site together, so he gets the credit. I know we are working on adding some stuff that will make it easier for everybody involved.
 
Old June 2nd, 2007 Jun 2, 2007 10:48:43 PM -   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kornit Inks vs. Dupont / R&H

Very cool Justin. So which printer has more accurate colors on the single pass, is it also the Kornit? Do you find yourself having to do many test prints before printing the actual product with the Kornit?

Now if the Kornit was more affordable!!!!!
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Old June 2nd, 2007 Jun 2, 2007 11:25:00 PM -   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kornit Inks vs. Dupont / R&H

With any printer, I really think you need to spend plenty of time on the artwork alone. If you do this, you won't waste too much time printing sample after sample. In my honest experience, the best color representation (as far as accurate colors) was on my Flexi. Although I think any printer using the R&H ink and profiles and Fred's PowerRIP would be able to repeat this.

Now the interesting thing is, most often the client would rather have VIBRANT colors than photo accurate colors.
 
Old June 3rd, 2007 Jun 3, 2007 2:31:41 AM -   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kornit Inks vs. Dupont / R&H

if what you say is true the kornit ink that sits on top of the fibers should have a more textured hand than the t-jet if that one penetrates the fibers while the kornit sits on top of them.
 
Old June 3rd, 2007 Jun 3, 2007 6:53:04 AM -   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kornit Inks vs. Dupont / R&H

Well, that is a single pass at 360E (single or dual cmyk?). Try the same image at 720x720 D-CMYK and you will see an image that will pop off the shirt.

I've got the sample of the first logo you did for us, Justin. Put that next to the ones we do now and you will be amazed at the difference.

Now, if I could just shut these fans off, the lines would be perfect!!

Eric
 
Old June 3rd, 2007 Jun 3, 2007 3:39:03 PM -   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kornit Inks vs. Dupont / R&H

Pull the plug! That's what I did.

And yes, the Kornit inks do have a very light hand. Most of my clients like that. It is NOTHING on screen printing, but it is more than any other DTG.

Eric - we should put one of yours side by side with a Kornit print in the same pic. I KNOW you are getting great results with your settings!
 
Old June 3rd, 2007 Jun 3, 2007 5:02:50 PM -   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kornit Inks vs. Dupont / R&H

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Walker
Eric - we should put one of yours side by side with a Kornit print in the same pic. I KNOW you are getting great results with your settings!
Ooh, a DTG shootout, I like it. This should go down at high noon.
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Old June 3rd, 2007 Jun 3, 2007 7:27:46 PM -   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kornit Inks vs. Dupont / R&H

Here's the image we are having the "shoot-out" with (this is an actual printed shirt):



It probably will have to happen at high noon. I don't think Justin wakes up before then!!

Justin, I'll get the image to you along with some of the other ones we are working on.

Eric
 






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