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Heat transfer sealant spray?

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Old October 9th, 2012 Oct 9, 2012 10:36:54 PM -   #76 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heat transfer sealant spray?

I don't use this method myself , but a few I know from the USA and one of my friends in the uk have sprayed clear to items such as shoes , denim , vinyl and leather . This has been going on for a few yrs . One guy in particular actually specialises in leather clothes done like this . It wouldn't take long for anybody to google about this . I never gave the shirts a second thought though . The companies I mention are massive in the USA . I don't think they would be doing this if your boots or jacket were to go up in flames . I have seen car vinyl done myself . And that holds up sweet . I know the substrates I mention and the technique is different but it's similar in other ways . So I look forward to how this pans out ..
Now time for a nice cup of earl grey !!
 
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Old October 10th, 2012 Oct 10, 2012 2:10:03 AM -   #77 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heat transfer sealant spray?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBoyTees
So far, only talk talk talk? Ha... Dude, you been bumping your gums constantly... and thats al;l you have done. Prove me wrong.

You are the one pitching this process, I only see from you talk talk talk. Waiting on the video. You are the one with something to prove now prove it.

And damn, all you got is ONE printer? BS where did you read that ?

Wow... Like I said, you don't know what my setup is... you think small. Lol. You make my case for me with your arrogance. BS. Only you can make your case, show us your process and end result of the product.

So... no one is reading this? So... please everyone and anyone... if you are reading this, and would like to see my test video... let me know: reply or just give this message a thanks... just show that you are out there and a part of this...

As for the video, yes, its coming. I have not finished with everything yet... but its coming. And this is a STEP by STEP guide on how to use Clear Coat on your transfers to make them stand out.

Define "stand out". Proper color managment and graphics art skills are all that is need to make transfers "stand out". If "stand out" means glossy there are other ways to accomplish that as well. I have sublimation, you want "STAND OUT" try sublimation and it will always stand out, how long does Krylon "stand out" after multiple washes?

Oh, by the way... you sure do have a very detailed explanation as to how the whole process works. That was a very nice guide you provided, when you were trying to explain to DOUGIE T why he should not be Clear Coating shirts.

WT??? My "guide" is simple use a good quality transfer paper and pigment inks and heat press the transfer. Krylon or other sprays are not necessary.

It really sounds like you have some great experience with this.

You sure you are not using these methods already?

No, it's not necessary. It adds time and complexity to a process that is otherwise simple and reliable.

Spraying a shirt is more than one step? Ok, you got me there...

1) Print Graphics...
2) Cut Graphics ...

Lint roller on the tshirt?

3) Press Graphics ...

Masking ? How do you keep the Krylon out of the unprinted area?

4) Grab the Clear Coat Can...
4.1) Aim it at the garment and transfer...
4.2) Hold the can back 12" and press the little cap on top of can...
4.3) Spay a thin coat on the graphic, feathering it into the shirt around the graphic... Spray the tshirt on the heat press?
4.4) Release the little cap and put the can down...

DRY TIME? Or do you press while the Krylon is still wet? And assuming you allow time to dry how do you keep dust and lint from getting stuck in the "tacky" area while it is drying?

5) Re-Press T-Shirts...

You are spray painting, where does the overspray go? What happens when you do this a lot ... your work area is not sticky? No extra clean up?

See how that works... just don't copy my methods, ok MGPARRISH? You can watch my video when I release it, but get your own methods.

I have my own methods, they produce a long lasting durable tshirt without all this BS.

FYI: I have been reading these forums for a long time... and it was only because I have seen your post with your arrogance so many times, to so many people... that I finally had to create an account.

Yeah right! BS BS BS You have sock puppets.

It just seems as if you love to brow beat and talk down to anyone in this forum if they use something you dont, if they go against something you believe or use a method that you think is stupid or unnecessary.

I just have a low threshold for BS, that's all.

Like I have said already, sure... you are entitled to your opinion and if you want to offer constructive help, thats fine also. But when others do the same, you seem to slam them. I dont have to point this out... your previous posts speak for themselves. Don't you understand that its ok to have an opinion, but its not OK to shove it down the throats of others.

There are opinions and there are facts. I posted the govt. garment compliance regulation. That is a fact, whatever you put on a tshirt and resell you are liable for.

Another fact, not an opinion. If you use the correct materials you do not need to do this.

Another fact, you just added a lot of time into making a tshirt.

So... like I say, you make my case for me. Look what you are currently arguing about... lol... To funny!

Only you can make your case, let's see a close up of the finished tshirt.

While you can't "feel" something in a picture or a video good quality transfer papers exist that have little or no hand after washing and remain durable and long lasting for years. I can't fathom this stuff not adding to the hand, or leaving a shiny area outside the transfer if you don't create a mask and control the spray.

How did you determine that this will increase the life of the tshirt? How many washes did you do and how did you wash?

What is your transfer paper, printer, and inks?

You promised a video ....
You seem to invent things that you claim I am saying. If you could actually read then you would see that I didn't say no one is reading this, I said 1200 will not be spraying tshirts!

I have more than 1 printer, where did you get that?

I have a 4880, WF1100, a KM2530 with sub toner, OKI 5200 with sub toner, and a OKI 5150 with OEM toner. I also have 2 dye sublimation "event" printers, one is Olympus the other is a HiTi.

No matter what your setup is the process of spray painting adds time beyond what is required normally, you seem to be dancing around that fact. Show us how much time that adds.

You seem to be a deceptive person, you used a different login and came back to this post, you take things I didn't say and claim I said them. Then you dance around arguments and create strawmen and argue against those.

Let's see a close up of the finished tshirt, if you are not masking the shirt to control where the spray goes I'm sure that the spray that gets in the area outside the transfer is noticeable.

Whatever time it takes someone to normally make a tshirt you just doubled that at least.

You seem to have left out the 10 minute drying time you had mentioned earlier BTW.

Just because you can type a couple of steps you have added to the normal method that doesn't mean this is all going to happen in 10 seconds.

Where do you spray your tshirt? On the heat press? You don't mask off the area to keep the spray only going to the imprinted area?

Now all this extra stuff to make what you are claiming is needed to create a long lasting durable tshirt? It's real simple use the correct materials and you don't need to.

If there are any new people here thinking that you need to do this to make a high quality durable shirt you are being misled. FACT.

Last edited by mgparrish; October 10th, 2012 at 02:23 AM..
 
Old October 10th, 2012 Oct 10, 2012 2:56:58 AM -   #78 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heat transfer sealant spray?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DOUGIE T
I don't use this method myself , but a few I know from the USA and one of my friends in the uk have sprayed clear to items such as shoes , denim , vinyl and leather . This has been going on for a few yrs . One guy in particular actually specialises in leather clothes done like this . It wouldn't take long for anybody to google about this . I never gave the shirts a second thought though . The companies I mention are massive in the USA . I don't think they would be doing this if your boots or jacket were to go up in flames . I have seen car vinyl done myself . And that holds up sweet . I know the substrates I mention and the technique is different but it's similar in other ways . So I look forward to how this pans out ..
Now time for a nice cup of earl grey !!
Doug, I think you are not understanding the garment requirement in the US. No one is suggesting that tshirts are subject to "self combustion". It's not a question of whether the regs are wise or really even necessary but they exist. Some people smoke or are around smokers, what happens when a hot ash hits your shirt? Will it make a small hole in the fabric and that's all, or will it start small and spread out in a nasty melt? Plastics vary in this property. Do you ever barbeque? There you have a hot ash source.

The reason for this is that some have worn garments and had a hot ash or flame source hit the shirt or garment spread out and got severe burns due to the fabric that was used.

The US govt is becoming more and more a nanny state. Some people do foolish things so our govt. babysits us.

If you sell clothing to children (I believe 12 years and younger) the regulations go beyond flamabiilty the US govt. wants to know the toxic substances in the tshirt. I guess somewhere here in the US some kid ate his tshirt and got sick or died. Most of this is because some real bad nasty stuff the Chinese use in their exported products.

Now about your leather goods, if you coat those you coat the entire leather area, you don't coat a rectangular shape where a heat transfer goes.

Rest assured when you Krylon a tshirt if you don't keep the Krylon contained to the transfer area it will have a different gloss and texture than the basic tshirt. As "Dale" is claiming he wants his transfers to "Stand out", if the krylon is making the "stand out" then it will "stand out" in undesired areas as well if you don't control it by masking.

The area near and around the transfer will not look consistant in appearance if you don't control the Krylon spray. If you do control the spray you would need to mask ... = more time and hassle.

Again, compare costs of a leather jacket, car vinyl, or leather shoes to a tshirt, and you are not printing on the shoes or jacket so you would overcoat the whole thing.

Last edited by mgparrish; October 10th, 2012 at 03:06 AM..
 
 
Old October 10th, 2012 Oct 10, 2012 6:46:31 AM -   #79 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heat transfer sealant spray?

Doug, I think you are not understanding the garment requirement in the US. No one is suggesting that tshirts are subject to "self combustion". It's not a question of whether the regs are wise or really even necessary but they exist. Some people smoke or are around smokers, what happens when a hot ash hits your shirt? Will it make a small hole in the fabric and that's all, or will it start small and spread out in a nasty melt? Plastics vary in this property. Do you ever barbeque? There you have a hot ash source.

Doug, please excuse MGPARRISH for making it sound like he is the authority on how to properly prepare a T-Shirt. MGPARRISH wants to educate you because he feels you do not understand the process ("Doug, I think you are not understanding the garment requirement in the US.") He would have you believe that by applying a clear coat to your shirt, it may cause it to melt or burn in a different way had you not applied it. He has offered us NO proof, but only conjecture in this matter. However, I am preparing a video showing washability and yes, we are going to burn two shirts later today in different ways - one with sealant, and one without. We will be posting the video once we are finished.

The reason for this is that some have worn garments and had a hot ash or flame source hit the shirt or garment spread out and got severe burns due to the fabric that was used.

These must be very limited, because I have never had one of my shirts burn for any reason... ever. As a matter of fact, I do shirts for cooks who are around a grill all day, and their shirts and aprons have never caught fire... once! Are you having issues with this? Maybe you should look into the way you are making shirts MGPARRISH.

The US govt is becoming more and more a nanny state. Some people do foolish things so our govt. babysits us.

Maybe arrogant people like you need to be told what to do. I would think that by the way you post on this forum, that this is your way to try to control something. You way to be the boss... the man. Its just ashame you have to put yourself on that pedestal.

If you sell clothing to children (I believe 12 years and younger) the regulations go beyond flamabiilty the US govt. wants to know the toxic substances in the t-shirt. I guess somewhere here in the US some kid ate his tshirt and got sick or died. Most of this is because some real bad nasty stuff the Chinese use in their exported products.

Now about your leather goods, if you coat those you coat the entire leather area, you don't coat a rectangular shape where a heat transfer goes.

Here we go with the advice again... he seems to be very knowledgeable about applying clear coat... so much so that he is willing to offer you some help with what you do, Dougie T.

Rest assured when you Krylon a tshirt if you don't keep the Krylon contained to the transfer area it will have a different gloss and texture than the basic tshirt. As "Dale" is claiming he wants his transfers to "Stand out", if the krylon is making the "stand out" then it will "stand out" in undesired areas as well if you don't control it by masking.

Again, he is assuring all of us what will happen... but he has supposedly NEVER done this, so how would he know what will happen? More and more BS. I can't wait to finish this video! Lol. He is SO WRONG on SO MANY LEVELS, yet he is telling us what will happen.


The area near and around the transfer will not look consistant in appearance if you don't control the Krylon spray. If you do control the spray you would need to mask ... = more time and hassle.

So, are you educating us because... you assume we don't know this? Or is this just your way of trying to appear all knowing about the process? It would seem that the people who are actually using this method or are trying and testing this method should be telling you how this is done. But, your arrogance will not allow you to learn something. And man does it show!

Again, compare costs of a leather jacket, car vinyl, or leather shoes to a tshirt, and you are not printing on the shoes or jacket so you would overcoat the whole thing.

Again... thanks for the advice? Er... Yeah... now we understand how this is done. Again, thank you! The T-Shirt God has spoken!

Going to try and finish this video today! Sorry MGPARRISH, I cant stay on these forums all day, I have T-Shirts to make. We all love ya, bro!

Last edited by BigBoyTees; October 10th, 2012 at 06:55 AM..
 
Old October 10th, 2012 Oct 10, 2012 7:13:27 AM -   #80 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heat transfer sealant spray?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBoyTees
Doug, I think you are not understanding the garment requirement in the US. No one is suggesting that tshirts are subject to "self combustion". It's not a question of whether the regs are wise or really even necessary but they exist. Some people smoke or are around smokers, what happens when a hot ash hits your shirt? Will it make a small hole in the fabric and that's all, or will it start small and spread out in a nasty melt? Plastics vary in this property. Do you ever barbeque? There you have a hot ash source.

Doug, please excuse MGPARRISH for making it sound like he is the authority on how to properly prepare a T-Shirt. MGPARRISH wants to educate you because he feels you do not understand the process ("Doug, I think you are not understanding the garment requirement in the US.") He would have you believe that by applying a clear coat to your shirt, it may cause it to melt or burn in a different way had you not applied it. He has offered us NO proof, but only conjecture in this matter. However, I am preparing a video showing washability and yes, we are going to burn two shirts later today in different ways - one with sealant, and one without. We will be posting the video once we are finished.

The reason for this is that some have worn garments and had a hot ash or flame source hit the shirt or garment spread out and got severe burns due to the fabric that was used.

These must be very limited, because I have never had one of my shirts burn for any reason... ever. As a matter of fact, I do shirts for cooks who are around a grill all day, and their shirts and aprons have never caught fire... once! Are you having issues with this? Maybe you should look into the way you are making shirts MGPARRISH.

The US govt is becoming more and more a nanny state. Some people do foolish things so our govt. babysits us.

Maybe arrogant people like you need to be told what to do. I would think that by the way you post on this forum, that this is your way to try to control something. You way to be the boss... the man. Its just ashame you have to put yourself on that pedestal.

If you sell clothing to children (I believe 12 years and younger) the regulations go beyond flamabiilty the US govt. wants to know the toxic substances in the t-shirt. I guess somewhere here in the US some kid ate his tshirt and got sick or died. Most of this is because some real bad nasty stuff the Chinese use in their exported products.

Now about your leather goods, if you coat those you coat the entire leather area, you don't coat a rectangular shape where a heat transfer goes.

Here we go with the advice again... he seems to be very knowledgeable about applying clear coat... so much so that he is willing to offer you some help with what you do, Dougie T.

Rest assured when you Krylon a tshirt if you don't keep the Krylon contained to the transfer area it will have a different gloss and texture than the basic tshirt. As "Dale" is claiming he wants his transfers to "Stand out", if the krylon is making the "stand out" then it will "stand out" in undesired areas as well if you don't control it by masking.

Again, he is assuring all of us what will happen... but he has supposedly NEVER done this, so how would he know what will happen? More and more BS. I can't wait to finish this video! Lol. He is SO WRONG on SO MANY LEVELS, yet he is telling us what will happen.


The area near and around the transfer will not look consistant in appearance if you don't control the Krylon spray. If you do control the spray you would need to mask ... = more time and hassle.

So, are you educating us because... you assume we don't know this? Or is this just your way of trying to appear all knowing about the process? It would seem that the people who are actually using this method or are trying and testing this method should be telling you how this is done. But, your arrogance will not allow you to learn something. And man does it show!

Again, compare costs of a leather jacket, car vinyl, or leather shoes to a tshirt, and you are not printing on the shoes or jacket so you would overcoat the whole thing.

Again... thanks for the advice? Er... Yeah... now we understand how this is done. Again, thank you! The T-Shirt God has spoken!

Going to try and finish this video today! Sorry MGPARRISH, I cant stay on these forums all day, I have T-Shirts to make. We all love ya, bro!
Dude you offer a lot of deceptions. I never stated that the shirt would catch on fire. I stated the govt. logic in adopting these regulations.

Enough with the lies and BS.

You invited a challenge and you got it ...

1. I was off this topic for over 2 weeks, you didn't think I wouldn't respond?

https://www.t-shirtforums.com/inkjet-...ml#post1179955
"So, while "mgparrish" and "atigerwanabee" battle it out for what works and what may be potentially unsafe, here are my TESTED findings:"

2. Then you claim you didn't call me out.

https://www.t-shirtforums.com/inkjet-...ml#post1180544
"Um... No, I did not call you out... I did not ask for your opinion... I did not ask for you to interpret the law for me... I did not ask for your legal advise. I simply stated... while you and ATIGERWANNABE were busy arguing"

3. Now you claim that you got on to "pull my chain".

https://www.t-shirtforums.com/inkjet-...ml#post1180913
"And by the way... I am not ATIGERWANNABE. I got on because of the way you were talking to him and others... and figured I would pull your chain for a while."

So did you or did you not invite an argument?

So tell us how you can control a spray can of krylon and keep the spray out of the unprinted area? You dodged the question. Just because I haven't spray painted a tshirt doesn't mean I don't know how a spray can works.

I have used it before to coat canvas prints, I cover the entire canvas, that is easy. The way I know if I missed a spot is that YOU CAN SEE WHERE YOU MISSED THE CANVAS IS DULL WHERE YOU MISSED IT. THAT MEANS THE STUFF IS ALSO VISIBLE ON THE TSHIRT OUTSIDE THE DESIGN AREAS UNLESS YOU CAN COAT ONLY IN THE TRANSFER AREA.

Using a spray can there is a certain spray width and I'd like to know how you can precisely keep it out of the unprinted area without masking? Otherwise it's going to show on the tshirt, remember it makes things "Stand out" YOUR WORDS.

You can invent all the lies you want to about me, put words in my mouth that didn't exist before, create strawmen, call me names, it won't win your arguments.

Proof is in the pudding, show us your method "Dale".

Last edited by mgparrish; October 10th, 2012 at 07:23 AM..
 
Old October 10th, 2012 Oct 10, 2012 7:29:57 AM -   #81 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heat transfer sealant spray?

What was this thread about??? Seems to have lost the point somewhere along the way.
 
Old October 10th, 2012 Oct 10, 2012 7:41:42 AM -   #82 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heat transfer sealant spray?

Well we don't barbeque here in the uk much as the weather is total ****e ! And hot ash getting onto my t shirt would be the least of my worries . I would be more concerned about burning the bangers .
My knowledge of painting and spraying is pretty good as I used to prep parts one day , base coat the second day , dip them on the third day and clear them on the last day . Then back to work for my normal job which is making turbo chargers .
I have sprayed cellulose , switched to waterbased like many in the USA have also , simply because of the vocs . I believe in some if not most us states you after use waterbourne now .
The 2k automotive clear can be deadly also . I had a mask and a booth so do not worry .
I know one or two people who print on other substrates like mirror , steel and rock .
What does bore me slightly is the same post over and over again . I think we all understand your view on this mike . I might spray my transfers with chocolate see how they pan out .
Undecided on plain , milk or dark ?
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Old October 10th, 2012 Oct 10, 2012 7:45:35 AM -   #83 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heat transfer sealant spray?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gecko Signs NT
What was this thread about??? Seems to have lost the point somewhere along the way.
It's supposed to be about being able to seal heat transfers with sealant spray and why to do this. When asking hard serious questions and explaining the ramifications specific to this then seems one wants to go off topic with some crazy rants. Seems the topic is now about me, and not my questions and statements.
 
Old October 10th, 2012 Oct 10, 2012 7:51:06 AM -   #84 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heat transfer sealant spray?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DOUGIE T
Well we don't barbeque here in the uk much as the weather is total ****e ! And hot ash getting onto my t shirt would be the least of my worries . I would be more concerned about burning the bangers .
My knowledge of painting and spraying is pretty good as I used to prep parts one day , base coat the second day , dip them on the third day and clear them on the last day . Then back to work for my normal job which is making turbo chargers .
I have sprayed cellulose , switched to waterbased like many in the USA have also , simply because of the vocs . I believe in some if not most us states you after use waterbourne now .
The 2k automotive clear can be deadly also . I had a mask and a booth so do not worry .
I know one or two people who print on other substrates like mirror , steel and rock .
What does bore me slightly is the same post over and over again . I think we all understand your view on this mike . I might spray my transfers with chocolate see how they pan out .
Undecided on plain , milk or dark ?
Tried the chocolate once, doesn't wear well in the Phoenix sun, my dog loved me though.

I'm bored with hearing how this is so great but no picture video etc or real explanations as to how you can do it as promised.

Asking serious questions then the topic is now me.

Last edited by mgparrish; October 10th, 2012 at 07:59 AM..
 
Old October 10th, 2012 Oct 10, 2012 8:08:57 AM -   #85 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heat transfer sealant spray?

Well if you were to stop quoting everything and talking crap we might actually get some evidence of the spray . If only I had enough money mike I would board your mouth up .
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Old October 10th, 2012 Oct 10, 2012 8:21:51 AM -   #86 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heat transfer sealant spray?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DOUGIE T
Well if you were to stop quoting everything and talking crap we might actually get some evidence of the spray . If only I had enough money mike I would board your mouth up .
Talking crap? The only quoting is debunking the deceptions as presented. I would expect you to defend yourself when words are put in your mouth and twisted around. You questioned the regulations, you are not in the US so I explained. You are now off topic. Yes, let's see the evidence. Sorry but my comments are about this process and it's ramifications and I will not shut up if challenged or my words are distorted. Don't like my comments? Don't read them.

Seems you can't take honest debate so you throw out a personal threat to "board my mouth up". I have never attacked you personally , I just disagreed with what you said and you can't seem to take it. Get over it, this is a forum, we discuss and debate ideas, nothing personal.

Last edited by mgparrish; October 10th, 2012 at 09:23 AM..
 
Old October 10th, 2012 Oct 10, 2012 4:03:45 PM -   #87 (permalink)
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Thumbs up Re: Heat transfer sealant spray?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgparrish
Talking crap? The only quoting is debunking the deceptions as presented. I would expect you to defend yourself when words are put in your mouth and twisted around. You questioned the regulations, you are not in the US so I explained. You are now off topic. Yes, let's see the evidence. Sorry but my comments are about this process and it's ramifications and I will not shut up if challenged or my words are distorted. Don't like my comments? Don't read them.

Seems you can't take honest debate so you throw out a personal threat to "board my mouth up". I have never attacked you personally , I just disagreed with what you said and you can't seem to take it. Get over it, this is a forum, we discuss and debate ideas, nothing personal.
You, my friend, don't seem to understand that its not what you debate, but how you debate it. Enough said to you about all of this.

I am sorry this seems to have gotten off topic, so lets get this back on with what its supposed to be about: Sealing T-Shirts with Acrylic Cleat Coats.

I have two shirts. I am using Forever Dark Transfer Paper. On each, I have printed a full color graphic. One one, I have sprayed the graphic with Dresden Clear Glaze made by Design Master. I have been washing the shirts side by side a few times a day, and they are now on there 7th wash each. I am going to 10 washes and I have been taking video of the entire process, from designing - cutting - printing - pressing and sealing, and the entire wash process. I wanted to do a burn test, but I simply could not get away from the shop long enough to do it. Just to busy today.

Here are my finding so far:

1) I had found that I need to press the shirt with the transfer first,
2) I then spray a light coating or clear, just enough to make it glossy, onto the shirt. I do not use a mask, and simply feather it in around the graphic.
3) I allow it to dry, just a couple of minutes, and then I press it with a piece of Parchment paper over the graphic. I press for about 20 seconds.
4) I allow the shirt to cool completely and remove the parchment paper. I am left with a NO RESIDUE transfer, and you really can not even tell that I have even applied anything.

At this point, both shirts (one with, and one without) look really nice and bright. Side by side, I can tell the shirt with the clear coat because it has a glossy look when light shines on it. The other does also, but the clear coat gives it a little more mirror finish.

The real test came when I put them into the wash. I turned the shirts inside out and tossed them in - cold water, no detergent - and ran them on the full cycle.

Side by side after the wash, no you can see the difference. The clear coat graphic still looks like it was just printed. The white area are still nice and white, and the orange color of the shirt did not stain the white of the transfer. The transfer without the clear coat, looks like a normal transfer would look... but it simply does not have the same luster and vividness as the clear coat shirt.

Now, I am about to go pull the shirts out after their 7th wash, and see how they compare. After the 6th wash, I could see no difference. Both transfers still looked as they did after the first initial wash. The clear coat shirt is still vivid and glossy. The regular transfer still looks very good, but just does not have that same vivid look.

As for the hand, they both feel nice. Dark material is going to have a heavier hand anyways, but both shirts have loosened up and feel good to the touch. No cracking or pealing.

So, as of this moment, these are my test results. I am taking video of every step, and I will put it all together and post it... I will try my best to get it done tomorrow, but it may be this weekend before I will actually have the time to edit and post the video.
 
Old October 10th, 2012 Oct 10, 2012 4:12:40 PM -   #88 (permalink)
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I think the guy who recently posted about heat pressing a layer of clear plastisol transfer over the vinyl is onto some thing. This krylon mess is still not a viable production method due to the fact that I would have to explain to customers that not only am I offering them an inkjet transfer I am also spray painting it because on its own it's a sub par product. At least plastisol is something they would recognize as something made for application on textile.

Not being rude just being frank. My two cents, toss them in a well and make a wish.
 
Old October 10th, 2012 Oct 10, 2012 9:43:49 PM -   #89 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heat transfer sealant spray?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBoyTees
You, my friend, don't seem to understand that its not what you debate, but how you debate it. Enough said to you about all of this.

Fair enough.

I am sorry this seems to have gotten off topic, so lets get this back on with what its supposed to be about: Sealing T-Shirts with Acrylic Cleat Coats.
I noticed on a couple of posts you went into detail about your equipment.

Also, you are not ATIGERWANNABE, usually someone posting here for the first time doesn't come out with their guns drawn. So my apologies, you are who you are. Once in a while people on forums wear sock pockets when they want to stir things up.

In another post you had stated that it is taking about 45 - 60 seconds for your pressing operation using your existing method with the plastisol sheets. This time is reasonable since beyond dwell time you have to fiddle with the shirt get the wrinkes out prepress (if you do that) and align the transfer etc. Some papers for example JPSS can take up to 30 seconds dwell.

https://www.t-shirtforums.com/inkjet-heat-transfer-paper/t201496.html#post1181476

So about the production hit for the spraying. I took a plain 8 1/2 x 11 paper and just some white spray paint and if I was going along careful enough it was taking me about 45 seconds if I slowed down when I got to the edges to "feather" as you describe.

It was difficult to not go over the edge and it was easy to see "overspill" using white. Maybe with enough practice one could get the process down but no doubt this is tedious and you are going to take a bite on production rate.

If the drying time is 2 minutes you could workaround that by doing the spray in batches, like while one shirt is drying you are pressing or spraying another shirt. But then this means you have to setup an area to place the shirt so you have to factor in time for handling the sprayed shirts if you do it that way.

Suggest if you must overcoat that you get an airbrush kit where you can control the "spread" and flow rate and chuck the spray cans and get some coating in bulk.

Other things I see as pitfalls.

I can't fathom not having an air handler for your ventalation if you are going to produce shirt after shirt this way or else your going to breath some nasty stuff all day.

Irregardless of air handling or not, if your shirt has 2 minutes to dry you have to protect it, just walking around, opening a door, or closing a heat press will generate air currents, dust will be abound. If you don't air handle you have less dust but then gotta breath that stuff, air handling will move air around and dust along with it.

Any tiny spec of dust fiber or hair embedded on your top finish will stick out like a sore thumb, more so with a glossy overcoat. Maybe you can pick it out somehow and re-spray in that area, I don't know. But between overspray issues and flying hairs/fibers/specs that you may miss I see your "goof rate" going up, it's inevitable.

Also, when you get near the bottom empty of the spray can you get a lot of "spit" and "stutter" from the ink flow, this can't be good if you are trying to get by without masking.

For whatever reason you are switching from the plastisol sheets ... be it the extra $1 per sheet it is costing you or if you feel you need the extra gloss, at least those should be less problematic.

https://www.t-shirtforums.com/inkjet-...ml#post1181100

Cutting and placing a clear plastisol sheet has to be much easier than any spray method.

I tested Forever Dark Ink Jet before, I recall in the instructions that there was a a couple of ways it could be finished, one was a "gloss" finish using "gloss" finish paper. The "Dazzle Trans" the other poster refered to is the same thing.

DazzleTrans Glossy Finishing Sheets 11.25" x 17.25" (100 sheets)

I don't know if it will be as glossy as you desire and may not keep the gloss as long, that is unknown to me on your paper but it is just a very very smooth paper you use after the initial transfer, it can be re-used to some degree.

I tried it before on regular transfers, it did what it claimed but several laundrys and the effect was diminished. It may help for some initial "wow" to the customer though. I don't find glossy as being such a big deal, but your requirements are your requirements

Now after looking at your equipment I have to come back to my earlier statement, using the correct materials this is really not necessary.

Take this as constructive criticism or however, but your are not using the right printer ... 3 1400's, and it's obvious you have dye inks. Besides your earlier implying that dye inks being "OK".

https://www.t-shirtforums.com/inkjet-...ml#post1181100

"As with anyone, I want to be able to offer a great product. I want to make my designs bright and vivid, and I want them to last for the customer. With any transfer, you are going to get a little color fade from the first washing. This is just normal for any Dark Heat Transfer Material because some ink is left on the surface. My shirts look great, but I would like them to retain that "just printed" look. So, here is what I do and it has been really working great. Yes, it adds a little bit to the cost of doing business, but the end result is a transfer that really does last.
Now, this is not new... people have been sealing heat transfers for years. But this is the actual method I use for production shirts: Plastisol! I make 13"x24" Clear Plastisol sheets (well, I have them made for me). I simply print the graphic on dark heat transfer material (I use Forever Dark from Digital HeatFX), Cut the graphic the way I want it, then I cut (in reverse) a piece of the Plastisol Clear. So, here is the process:
Apply the Dark Transfer to the Garment and press for 5 seconds (enough to get it to stick),
Apply the Plastisol Clear over the transfer, and press for 30 seconds at 385 degrees.
The plastisol melts on and around the transfer, and gives a Screen Printed look and feel that is glossy and instantly wearable. This shirt does not even need to be pre-washed before it is worn because you will not get any running of the colors. However, I always ask my customers to wash the shirt before wearing it."

It's obvious you are sealing the transfer to check the ink bleed. This is what happens when you use dye inks. It's not a case of too much ink, dye inks are always water soluble even heat pressed in a transfer paper. Pigment inks are solids albeit very tiny tiny solids. While it may appear they are liquids these are particles just "floating" inside the ink fluid, the fluid is really a carrier of sorts. Dye inks are dissolved in water while they are in the printer cart and remain always able to be thinned by water.

Pigments when heat pressed will actually melt and bind together and into the transfer paper. When this is done they cannot be "cut down" or diluted by water, it's physically impossible. Since you need a certain amount of ink to get a good image if you lose anything from water dilution then your image is weaker. Pigments can't dilute. Hence your mention of

"With any transfer, you are going to get a little color fade from the first washing. This is just normal for any Dark Heat Transfer Material because some ink is left on the surface."

Sorry but that is not true, never had wash issues period with pigments, the first wash should never loose inks at all, or the second, third ....

The reality is that transfer paper is actually somewhat pourous due to layering and inks are mostly absorbed inside the paper, if those were pigments any inks on the top are able to cling to the pigments underneath and to the transfer paper, all these tiny little solids just melts into one solid once heat pressed. Ink jet pigment ink is made from resins mostly.

I could print a paper using dye inks and laminate it on my laminator on both side and make it completely water proof. Since the laminator plastic is not pourous the dye inks are still water soluble but now protected where water cannot get to them. More or less this is what your seal coating is doing.

Enough theory, in actual usage you can search here about all the horror stories about the 1400 and bleed fade issues. When the 1400 printer first came out a lot of people got them since the lowest cost Epson tabloid model and the next step up was a $500 1800 8 color model.

Part of the problem is that some heat transfer vendors and most of the paper manufacturers claim you can use either dye or pigment with the papers.

Since a lot of people got the 1400 without sufficient research some vendors didn't want to lose a paper sale so they wouldn't encourage the customer to throw away their printer and get a pigment printer .. they could lose paper sales that way or the customer would just go somewhere else and some salesman would tell them what they wanted to hear ... "you can use dye inks with our paper". Reality is yes you can use them, but should you use them? No.

Anyway, don't take my word for it you can research here. I did a search here on "Claria Ink Bleed" and in the first few pages this is what came up. You can spend hours reading the issues so the evidence is overwhelming, dye inks are not good for tshirts.

Pigments transfers only have fade problems when the paper is either too thin or poor material, the inks won't dissolve but the paper eventually deteriorates and is slowly removing from the tshirt. mostly due to abrasion after numerous wash dry cycles. Using good papers and pigment inks, I have zero issues.

These are just the tip of the iceberg, most of these posters with issues had no idea that the ink chemistry they were using was wrong, so all kind of workarounds were being tossed around.

*************************************
Claria ink bleeding when wet
https://www.t-shirtforums.com/printer...tml#post409201
Original poster garydman

"Hello, This is my first post, so HELLO Everyone!! I just bought an Epson Stylus Photo 1400 to use for larger prints on my shirts. The claria Ink bleeds when it gets wet when I use Iron All light transfer papers.(I haven't tried any other paper with it yet) Is this normal? Has anyone had this problem? If so what ink system is best for transfers with this printer. I generally only do white shirts and use Iron All lights for 99% of my stuff. Any help would be appreciated. Man, I wish I would have known about this before buying this monster.... Geeeesh!! lol."

Girlzndollz

"Hi Gary, sorry your Q got missed.
Yes, some people experience bleeding with Claria ink, the red and black seems to be the ones reported. For most cases, reducing the saturation of ink printed on the transfer paper seems to solve the issue"

garydman
OK thanks for the reply!! I ordered a Heat Transfer, Pigment Ink CISS from Inkjetfly over the weekend.

garydman
OK Thanks for the replies!! An update: I received the CISS from Inkjetfly with the Heat Transfer, pigment ink and it is working fine. No bleeds with IronAll Lights and this ink in the Epson 1400. And after washing, you can't even tell it's a transfer. It feels exactly the same as the shirt.

Epson Printers Bleeding with claria inks
https://www.t-shirtforums.com/printer...tml#post438567

jackson808
I am using a epson photo 1400 with claria inks and transjet ink jet paper from best blanks. I just did my first sample using a low (170) DPI and I got alot of bleeding.

splathead
Yes, there have been a number of posts on Claria ink bleeding issues. Do a search at the top of this page on 'claria ink bleed'.


https://www.t-shirtforums.com/heat-pr...tml#post464598

Grizzle044
Help!! Claria ink running & transfer peeling

I need help I know I haven't posted that much but I made some safety vests for a company and just got a call saying that after a week out on the job site that the transfer has started to bleed and peel.

[email protected]

The bleeding of the ink sounds like it is because Claira is a dye based ink and for best results you need a pigment based ink. If the transfer is peeling is must be something with the time/temp/pressure on the vest. What time/temp did you use?
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https://www.t-shirtforums.com/inkjet-...tml#post457489
Wash Test Results Epson 1400/Claria/JPSS
JohnLarkin

Hi all,
OK the results are in. The conclusion is good. The results are I think excellent.
Epson 1400 using factory Claria inks, JPSS paper for lights.
First press, looked great, good color depth and contrast. Wash Test, colors bled into shirt in some places, the darker the area the worse it was. Overall color faded very little to none. Conclusion, too much ink going on the paper causing excessive bleeding after washing.
Second press, changed the settings in the preferences from "photo best-photo glossy paper" to "text and image-plain paper bright white". The file printed out much quicker telling me immediately it was laying down less ink on the paper. Overall color still pretty darn nice, no bleeding, colors still looked very nice after washing. I even let it sit damp in the washer for a bit before taking it out and hanging it to dry. Conclusion, this works great after adjusting the amount of ink going on the paper. I would be very comfortable selling these shirts with this "recipe".
It looks like a MUST that you make wash tests on these materials before you sell the first shirt. If not you run a big risk of unhappy customers if the shirts have any bleeding/fading issues.
Hope this will help anybody using this system.

fredtoram
Hello john,
I have same configuration as you : epson 1400, claria ink and jpss. Yesterday i press a shirt 100% coton but the washing was a desaster...
Do you think that it 's so important to wait 24 hours before washing ?

fredtoram
hi Katrina
The shirt just go out of the dryer and........great deception : about 50 % fading.
But, before going to the dryer, it looked better, so i'm going to make a test without hot dryer.
I don't understand what happened. Some member seems to say that claria ink is so good.
Ok it's good for me when i print and when i press but not to the wash. I have to learn more on that ink....

Tshirtguy
I was using the Epson 1400 with Claria and JPSS for a while and then I got a complaint about ink running in a shirt. I thought it was just a one time problem but I did so more tests myself and found that the magenta would run. Especially when the design had a lot of it, like solid red thick text.
Initially when I tested this configuration the designs didn't have a lot of magenta and I had no problem.
Anyway, I switched to an Epson Workforce 1100 and Durabrite inks. It just wasn't worth
the risk of ink running for me. Now my 1400 has refill carts with pigment ink in it also.

ogre8799
It is definitely hard after the press with or without the siliconized parchment. I got it through Bestblanks monster roll for about $12. Apparently the silicon helps to not get ink on the sheet when you double press. There is still a little ink that comes off each shirt when I repress with it so I use a new piece for every transfer. Again, based on my results, I don't know if it helps at all. I really don't know if there is a difference or not. Last night I used a few transfers that are for shirts for our adoption fundraiser that I had cured for 24 hours, we cut them out with an xacto knife as close to the lines/edges as possible, it took 15 min trimming, and 2 of the three shirts turned out nice, the third one was a huge mess. The ink bled more than any other I've ever done.
***********************

Anyway, good luck whatever you end up doing.

Last edited by mgparrish; October 10th, 2012 at 09:58 PM..
 
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Old October 11th, 2012 Oct 11, 2012 11:45:43 AM -   #90 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heat transfer sealant spray?

You cannot run clear coat through an air brush . You would need a compressor and a decent spray gun . The Krylon is more like laquer 1k clear coat . What my friend sprays on vinyl is Simonz car laquer . Don't think you can buy laquer in the USA ? . We can't get Krylon here .
I am guessing its very thin as if not it would set very hard and be stiff . Clear coat is a mare to spray also . Trash in your line , in the air etc .
I am looking forward to the video an images . I thank you for sharing this .
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This is a discussion about Heat transfer sealant spray? that was posted in the Inkjet Heat Transfer Paper section of the forums.

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