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Double-Strike help on F2100

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Old June 8th, 2019 Jun 8, 2019 7:11:51 AM -   #1 (permalink)
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Question Double-Strike help on F2100

Hi. I've found a great setting for my prints. Using Level 3 Quality and +100 on white and +35 on colour. I just started trying to use Double-Strike print for the white sections but it doesn't seem to add any more white on the colour pass. Is there anything I can do to boost the white on the 2nd pass? Really need a little more white so it's solid. I tried Level 6 with +35 White but it takes 4 minutes to print. The Level 3 with +100 White is only 2 minutes to print. Just need more white on the 2nd pass/double-strike.

Using Level 5 Pretreat on SpeedTreater with Bella 52/48 3001 CVC shirts. Some colour shirts have more solid whites than other. Rather not use more pretreat. Really want more white ink. I find more pretreat is hard to get out of the shirts.

Thanks!
Mark
 
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Old 4 Weeks Ago Jun 11, 2019 8:40:00 AM -   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Double-Strike help on F2100

Don't confuse white ink "opacity" with pre-treatment management. If your pre-treatment isn't laid down properly (too little, too much, uneven, etc.) this is what you'll get.

You should never have to print your white ink +100. That is way too much and it will cost you a ton and your white ink will go fast. If you want more white ink to print bump up your quality settings on the white.

As an experiment pretreat a shirt normally, heat press it dry and then repeat on maybe an 8 setting. See if that proves my point.
 
Old 4 Weeks Ago Jun 12, 2019 6:54:12 AM -   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Double-Strike help on F2100

Thanks for the reply! I am with you on adding more pretreat, but any more than we are using now does not wash out. We have Equipment Zone's SpeedTreater. They recommend a setting of 4.5. That's not enough for me for the white to be solid.

I use level 5.0-5.2. When I get up to 5.5 for pretreat, it permanently stains dark shirts. I've tried washing them multiple times, hot, cold, with/without detergent, etc. Just can't use that much.

I'm drying the pretreat at 330°F for 45 seconds with a DK20A on pressure level 3.0 medium. Then for ink cure, I am hovering for 90 seconds, then pressing on level 1.5-2.0 light pressure for 90 seconds.

When I print higher quality on F2100 (level 6 w/ white +35), the ink is solid but it takes 8 minutes to print 1 shirt because of the necessary drying times between passes, or the white bleeds on the shirt. On level 2 or 3 with white +100, it's litterally 1/3 of the time.

50/50 and triblends are less susceptible to the staining though they need less pretreat anyhow. This is more of a problem on 100% cotton shirts.

As a side note, printing the shirts on level 2 or level 3 with +100 white actually uses less ink than level 6 at +35. I was surprised to learn this.

Any other insights? I am grateful for the help!
 
 
Old 4 Weeks Ago Jun 12, 2019 10:16:53 AM -   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Double-Strike help on F2100

I offered something for you to try. Did you not read the whole post maybe?

Two mild applications of pretreatment is way better than one huge application by far.
 
Old 4 Weeks Ago Jun 12, 2019 12:42:01 PM -   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Double-Strike help on F2100

Didn't quite get the "Repeat" part. Thought it was try again using level 8. Level 8 must be a "light" pretreat setting then on your machine? I will give it a try and see. Post back shortly.

Thanks
 
Old 4 Weeks Ago Jun 12, 2019 2:47:50 PM -   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Double-Strike help on F2100

I have a first Gen SpeedTreater so my dial is different than yours. I usually pretreat normally, heat press dry and then prtreat again at about 1/2 of the first pass.
 
Old 4 Weeks Ago Jun 13, 2019 8:09:19 AM -   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Double-Strike help on F2100

Hey Geno,
I have seen you post a lot of great information and I value your opinions on DTG. That being said I was curious about this.



What are the benefits of Pretreating the garment twice? I typically run it through one time on 5-5.5 in my speedtreater and get good results. Was curious about this post and thinking about trying it. Do you get a better lay down of the ink? Better quality? Thanks for any information. I am relatively new to DTG and still working out the kinks.
 
Old 4 Weeks Ago Jun 13, 2019 8:25:39 AM -   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Double-Strike help on F2100

Well, since I am a printer and not a scientist I don't really know. I did it once out of desperation a few years ago when I was getting bad prints on some black tees and it worked. I have since varied the way that I do it over time and it seems to work pretty well for me. I don't always do it but I will when I think I need to.

You have to know that a DTG isn't just a magical print box (like the dealers would have you believe) where you run any t-shirt through a speed treater, heat it dry and then run it through a DTG and like magic you hav e a perfect print. There are a lot of variables going on. How good your artwork is, what brand of tee that you are printing, how well you've mixed your pretreatment and so on.

It takes time and experience and some smart experimenting on your own to figure out what is best for you. Folks like me that try and offer help in this forum should really be used as a base to start since every shop has different things going on and no one is exactly the same.
 
Old 4 Weeks Ago Jun 13, 2019 11:49:26 AM -   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Double-Strike help on F2100

I might offer some insight that was explained to me by a fellow that made pretreat. I too will sometimes double pretreat this is a good technique and one that has been around for a good long time I think there maybe even an old post somewhere of Geno and I talking about the merits of double pretreating. Any who what was explained to me a while back was think of a shirt as a net. Without pretreat the ink will pass right through it. When you pretreat it you fill in some of those holes in the net with pretreat. However there are still holes and pretreating again fills in more of those holes and the ink will sit more on the surface. Again you need to be careful here while it will give you a more vivid print it is more on the surface so it may not wash as well as it would have if you used less or a single pass of pretreat because the ink is binding more into the shirt as opposed to on it.
For me the finer the knit on a shirt the less I need to pretreat to get a good print as opposed to one that has a looser knit where I need to use more pretreat.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago Jun 13, 2019 1:25:15 PM -   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Double-Strike help on F2100

Well said!

Most dealers also push high dollar ring spun tees and that is all fine and dandy but for me right now my "go to" t-shirt for DTG is the Gildan 5000 5.3 .oz. Soft to the touch, not too thick and you can't beat the price or availability in adult as well as youth sizes. Most colors print well with only one moderate pretreatment pass also.
 
Old 4 Weeks Ago Jun 13, 2019 1:56:09 PM -   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Double-Strike help on F2100

[QUOTE=gatorGRAFIX;4434051]Well said!

Most dealers also push high dollar ring spun tees and that is all fine and dandy but for me right now my "go to" t-shirt for DTG is the Gildan 5000 5.3 .oz. Soft to the touch, not too thick and you can't beat the price or availability in adult as well as youth sizes. Most colors print well with only one moderate pretreatment pass also.

I have to say this is my go to as well unless a customer specifies anything different.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago Jun 17, 2019 7:22:38 AM -   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Double-Strike help on F2100

Thanks James and Geno for your responses. I just happened to stumble on this thread and figured I would ask! Appreciate your information as always!
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Old 3 Weeks Ago Jun 18, 2019 7:43:04 AM -   #13 (permalink)
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Default

Logged in as my other biz account... You were right GatorGRAFX. Double pretreating did improve the print for me. You can tell the difference. However, as you point out it's no magic box. It's still not very white. It also takes an extra minute per shirt.

With some shirts, the only way I can get the white I want is to pretreat on 5.5 (high) or double-pretreat, and then print Level 6 print with white boosted to +35 and pause 60 seconds between each of the 3 passes in order for the ink to dry.

Just can't seem to get excellent solid white without doing that on most shirts. Guess I will just have to charge more for the time, or use the Bella Triblend shirts and just charge the extra for the "perfect canvas" shirts which are fabulous at white print without boosting the pretreat or the white ink.

Thanks again for the tip!
 
Old 3 Weeks Ago Jun 18, 2019 8:44:35 AM -   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Double-Strike help on F2100

Quote:
Originally Posted by saltwatercolours
Logged in as my other biz account... You were right GatorGRAFX. Double pretreating did improve the print for me. You can tell the difference. However, as you point out it's no magic box. It's still not very white. It also takes an extra minute per shirt.

With some shirts, the only way I can get the white I want is to pretreat on 5.5 (high) or double-pretreat, and then print Level 6 print with white boosted to +35 and pause 60 seconds between each of the 3 passes in order for the ink to dry.

Just can't seem to get excellent solid white without doing that on most shirts. Guess I will just have to charge more for the time, or use the Bella Triblend shirts and just charge the extra for the "perfect canvas" shirts which are fabulous at white print without boosting the pretreat or the white ink.

Thanks again for the tip!
The pretreat you are using matters some give much better vibrancy over others for example I use Firebird's epson pretreat when I do a double hit I do 15gs and dry it then another 15gs for only 30gs on the shirt. Other pretreats you may have to spray double that to get a solid white.
 
Old 3 Weeks Ago Jun 18, 2019 2:15:46 PM -   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Double-Strike help on F2100

Well, having spouted off about double hitting white tees with no pretreatment (which I have always done) I was printing some Gator Grafix Zombie "give away" tees the other day and my results were kind of ho-hum with just a double strike. My red was too dark and my black wasn't rich enough. My details were all closing up too.

I gave each tee a quick pass with Epson pretreament (55 on the dial of a gen one SpeedTreater) and my prints came out FAB U LOUS! The latest Epson pretreat is for white OR just color. Still double printed it.

The details really pop now too with the distress.

Man, crow tastes yukky.

No pretreatment:



With pretreatment:

 






This is a discussion about Double-Strike help on F2100 that was posted in the Epson SureColor DTG Printers section of the forums.

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