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Gator Grafix's Epson F2000 + Garment Creator w/Knockout Black

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Old March 17th, 2016 Mar 17, 2016 1:41:20 PM -   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gator Grafix's Epson F2000 + Garment Creator w/Knockout Black

Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorGRAFIX
Blah blah blah.



Just the same-o same-o Whooly reteric. Kinda preachy.



Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z

Lol you guys need to calm down, just ignore mammoth, he is a self confessed god father of dtg, Gator I love what you do, keep sharing your work, its awesome, Seems like kothari pays him royalty for every time he mentions about them, yes it's a great rip but not for everyone, everyone has different business models, some people create art work to work for dtg, not everyone needs a rip, I personally got a cadlink because the que system sounds perfect for me, But on a serious note, just agree to disagree, both of you print great work and do whats great for you, As for getting extended warranty seems like a wise idea, I would do the same thing, whether I need it or not,


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Old March 17th, 2016 Mar 17, 2016 1:48:40 PM -   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gator Grafix's Epson F2000 + Garment Creator w/Knockout Black

Well said and thank you very much.
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Old March 17th, 2016 Mar 17, 2016 3:24:05 PM -   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gator Grafix's Epson F2000 + Garment Creator w/Knockout Black

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Originally Posted by Arthustle
...not everyone needs a rip...
Here I'm strongly disagree. Everyone needs a good RIP, mainly for the ink and printing time saved.
Considering all the costs (printer, press, pretreatment machine etc etc) the rip price is a very small investment but one of the most important to do
 
 
Old March 17th, 2016 Mar 17, 2016 3:40:12 PM -   #19 (permalink)
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Default Gator Grafix's Epson F2000 + Garment Creator w/Knockout Black

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Originally Posted by Amelion
Here I'm strongly disagree. Everyone needs a good RIP, mainly for the ink and printing time saved.
Considering all the costs (printer, press, pretreatment machine etc etc) the rip price is a very small investment but one of the most important to do

You maybe right, but I've seen Jerid post amazing prints using gc, but also as Eric pointed out Epson are working on improving the gc, Not saying it's not a good investment, I am very new to this game, but I am sure I'll learn


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Old March 18th, 2016 Mar 18, 2016 12:13:08 AM -   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gator Grafix's Epson F2000 + Garment Creator w/Knockout Black

**Arthustle, you say new to the game, how many prints have you actually done on the Epson?

GC is awesome for CMYK, a RIP is a must for all printing, I dont understand some people bagging out the two main RIP's each has its place in the market, I use DFA and I find it great, I will always use GC for CMYK as it produces the best results.

But when a customer brings you a JPG with black background and dark details you will never get the same results with GC. happy to be proven wrong.

Also Arthustle I think your too new to go up against Mammath he will own you with the prints he produces, maybe in 6mths after you make some mistakes and learn from them

I know Mammath doesnt get any kickbacks he just loves what he does and loves helping people that show the same desire and passion to produce the best prints DTG can produce.
 
Old March 18th, 2016 Mar 18, 2016 7:51:28 AM -   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gator Grafix's Epson F2000 + Garment Creator w/Knockout Black

Aw come on. That's just nutz. If you think that the print that I posted above doesn't prove that GC is a legit contender than you obviously don't kow how to use it.

I have printed a handful of things with the new GC KnockOut Black and it's great.

GC may not be as versatile as DF and I still love my DF program but it is for sure more than suitable for all but maybe the most hard core F2000 owner.

I know that if it had been available when I bought my F2000 I would not have bought DF at all. The program is that good. For the new F2000 owner is the most simple to use to, hands down.

The only small draw back that I see with the new GC is that when printing color t's other than black it still may lay down a little too much white under the black for my tastes and that is when I go back to DF for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by r81
Arthustle I think your too new to go up against Mammath he will own you with the prints he produces, maybe in 6mths after you make some mistakes and learn from them
Seriusoly dude??? This isn't Berkley or Harvard where as someone has seniority. He has a right to express his opinion on his F2000 experience just the same as you just did right here. Who are you anyway, the "Opinion Manager" here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by r81
I know Mammath doesnt get any kickbacks he just loves what he does and loves helping people that show the same desire and passion to produce the best prints DTG can produce.
Awwww! How sweet. I hear that he also wants world peace and a totally clean global environment. I say that's a plus too!

Last edited by gatorGRAFIX; March 18th, 2016 at 07:58 AM..
 
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Old March 18th, 2016 Mar 18, 2016 9:51:39 AM -   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gator Grafix's Epson F2000 + Garment Creator w/Knockout Black

Quote:
Originally Posted by r81
**Arthustle, you say new to the game, how many prints have you actually done on the Epson?

GC is awesome for CMYK, a RIP is a must for all printing, I dont understand some people bagging out the two main RIP's each has its place in the market, I use DFA and I find it great, I will always use GC for CMYK as it produces the best results.

But when a customer brings you a JPG with black background and dark details you will never get the same results with GC. happy to be proven wrong.

Also Arthustle I think your too new to go up against Mammath he will own you with the prints he produces, maybe in 6mths after you make some mistakes and learn from them

I know Mammath doesnt get any kickbacks he just loves what he does and loves helping people that show the same desire and passion to produce the best prints DTG can produce.
Very new, only few prints on the demo, I am not here telling people I am an expert, I am just expressing my opinions, I am starting out DTG but never judge someone , I have been printing using different methods for a very long time, DTG is just something I want to add, my background is in design and photography, so I understand what a rip is and what it's for, My opinions are based on research I've done, I am not here going up against anyone here, If he produces better prints than me than I congratulate him on his brilliant achievements, but I am running a business, and I am more concerned about selling and productivity, If mamoth or anyone produces better prints than me, it makes no difference to my business what so ever, I don't understand why people have a pissing contest, there are very big personalities here who think its okay to say what they want, but when someone replies back or makes a comment on the post, its like "you have not been printing longer than me, there by you can't have an opinion" It's very nice of you to say I will learn in 6 months, I really hope I do, its nice that you can that you can predict, Good luck to mamoth and your self who have been in DTG, for so long, and great work on helping others, wish you all the best
 
Old March 18th, 2016 Mar 18, 2016 10:05:01 AM -   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gator Grafix's Epson F2000 + Garment Creator w/Knockout Black

Quote:
Originally Posted by r81
**
But when a customer brings you a JPG with black background and dark details you will never get the same results with GC. happy to be proven wrong.

Not for nothing, but if a customer brings you a file like that the first thing you should be telling them is that is not going to print well. A .jpg is not a file I would print from even though DFA and GC will let you. It is a lossy format developed for screen graphics, not printing. Manipulating it only makes it worse and my bet is that you are going to see higher ink usage trying to make it look good.

That's from my experience in both DTG and Offset printing.
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Old March 18th, 2016 Mar 18, 2016 10:41:59 AM -   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gator Grafix's Epson F2000 + Garment Creator w/Knockout Black

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthustle
Lol you guys need to calm down, just ignore mammoth, he is a self confessed god father of dtg, Gator I love what you do, keep sharing your work, its awesome, Seems like kothari pays him royalty for every time he mentions about them...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthustle
Good luck to mamoth and your self who have been in DTG, for so long, and great work on helping others, wish you all the best
Actually if you new anything about me you would know that I have spent well over 2 decades screen printing t-shirts than I have using DTG. So many less variables to get right using DTG. As for your unfounded accusation that I receive royalties for mentioning Kothari, no, unlike other RIP manufacturers, Kothari does not offer discounted or free software to in return for users plugging how good the product is.
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Old March 18th, 2016 Mar 18, 2016 11:07:21 AM -   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gator Grafix's Epson F2000 + Garment Creator w/Knockout Black

Quote:
Originally Posted by danslave
Not for nothing, but if a customer brings you a file like that the first thing you should be telling them is that is not going to print well. A .jpg is not a file I would print from even though DFA and GC will let you. It is a lossy format developed for screen graphics, not printing. Manipulating it only makes it worse and my bet is that you are going to see higher ink usage trying to make it look good.

That's from my experience in both DTG and Offset printing.
Not sure if I agree with that one (no offense Dave). The Hawg T-shirt that I posted was a cell phone jpeg picture taken of the guy's race car hood. I took it into Photoshop, drew in some of the missing area and enhanced the rest and saved as a .psd and eventually a .png file. It started out not too good but I was happy with the results.

No one WANTS to fiddle with a jpeg file but the general public all thinks that us t-shirt printers are also part time magicians (and sometimes maybe we have to be) and on the other end of it we printers want the money so sometimes we have to settle for what is given to us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mammath
As for your unfounded accusation that I receive royalties for mentioning Kothari, no, unlike other RIP manufacturers, Kothari does not offer discounted or free software to in return for users plugging how good the product is.
Wow, are you kidding me matey?

I am sure he was just funnin' around because his accusation of you receiving a royalty or special favor for your shameless NeoRIP "product plugging" (no offense NeoRIP) isn't any different than you accusing someone else of the very same kind of "product plugging". If you go back and read his post again I would think that you would pick up a hint of fondness that he in fact probably has for you but you're just to grumpy to see it. That is how I took his comments.

For me I bought my DF when I was a green noob at the beginning of my DTG experience and the EZ folks didn't know me from Adam (any more than the caLink guys did) so I cannot see how I got any "favors" when I purchased it. Maybe I got a good deal because I bought the whole package up front but again, this just shows that you don't know anything about me and are willing just to spout off any ole BS to show how clever that you might think that you are.

If I buy something from someone that works exceptionally well and I get treated just as good from the folks that I bought it from then I am going to sing their praises. Just as I would hope my customers (or you with yours) would do the very same thing with your products that you peddle too. My F2000, GC and DF are no different.
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Last edited by gatorGRAFIX; March 18th, 2016 at 11:20 AM..
 
Old March 18th, 2016 Mar 18, 2016 11:14:49 AM -   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gator Grafix's Epson F2000 + Garment Creator w/Knockout Black

Sorry guys but here it seems that someone is missing the point.
Is not possible to express a judgment without testing in deep all these three software (GC, neorip and cadlink). You can't tell that a program is good only because you have seen a well printed image.
From my point of view (and what I have done before choosing the rip) you need to compare them on the following basis:
1) Overall quality output with at least a dozen pics with different characteristics (fading, contrast, colors etc etc).
2) ink consumption (using the report printed in the log print directly from the F2000, no rips estimation tools. They are very different one from another)
3) printing times. Saving 1,5-2 minutes on a dark garments is a lot of time. I'm currently working until the 22 pm every day because I have a lot of work to do and with the GC I would need from 3,5 to 5 hours more every day for the same amount of prints.
4) how much easy to use is the tool (I mean how many passages you need to do before that the output print is similar to the image that you have printed)

I spent 3 months using cadlink for testing and production (I think to have done more than 3000 prints with it). When I received the test dongle for neorip I compared a lot of prints made before with cadlink with it and I started to use neorip for production (in 15 days I think to have done about 600-800 prints with it).
Only after these steps I choose to buy the neorip.

My results in the upper points are these:
point 1: GC quite incomparable. Horrible fading to black features. Cadlink really improved with the specific fading queue, but not good as the neorip and also have problems to reproduce faithfully some colors (especially red and violet based)
point 2: GC of course the worst of these three, but what has suprised me is that neorip consume from 15% to 35% less ink per print of the cadlink. In quite all prints cadlink use really more white ink and a little bit less colors ink for print compared to neorip.
point 3: GC is really too slow. Cadlink and neorip are quite the same (assuming that you use the direct drivers of the cadlink and not the espon drivers)
point 4: the only one that in the 95% of cases doesn't need adjustment to the image is the neorip.

When I read similar conclusions times ago, I have preferred to check them from myself.

Sorry for the long post, but from a business point of view, for me is incomprehensible that GC is considered a viable way when exists software like cadlink and neorip.
 
Old March 18th, 2016 Mar 18, 2016 11:33:05 AM -   #27 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gator Grafix's Epson F2000 + Garment Creator w/Knockout Black

Nice post sir.

I would say that both the GC and the DF programs have been upgraded and updated here very recently so some of the test results that you have accumulated may indeed now be different.

No doubt that Df and NeoRIP are big players in the RIP area. I just think that GC is getting better and better. I think that for big production cats like you a 3rd party RIP can be very important. I just don't think that most folks that want to get into DTG fall into this big player category and the GC would be more attractive to them for it's ease of use and no money spent.

I do believe however that practice with the GC will give excellent results for most F2000 owners for sure. It's like any other program (including Photoshop, Illustrator, etc.), the more you use it the better you'll be with it.

I find that I get excellent results with GC and it is very very simple to understand and print with.
 
Old March 18th, 2016 Mar 18, 2016 12:21:10 PM -   #28 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gator Grafix's Epson F2000 + Garment Creator w/Knockout Black

Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorGRAFIX
I took it into Photoshop, drew in some of the missing area and enhanced the rest and saved as a .psd and eventually a .png file. It started out not too good but I was happy with the results.

I guess what I should have said is that a jpg file would not print well without manipulation, which is what you did practically creating a new file which I am going to assume you did not do for free (I don't).

Given what you did with it, the file probably would have printed great regardless of the rip you used. Good work on your end and having a happy customer is its own reward.

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Old March 18th, 2016 Mar 18, 2016 12:22:07 PM -   #29 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gator Grafix's Epson F2000 + Garment Creator w/Knockout Black

Ha ha. I stand corrected. Thanks Dave.
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Old March 18th, 2016 Mar 18, 2016 12:36:03 PM -   #30 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gator Grafix's Epson F2000 + Garment Creator w/Knockout Black

Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorGRAFIX
I would say that both the GC and the DF programs have been upgraded and updated here very recently so some of the test results that you have accumulated may indeed now be different.
Could be possible, also could be nice that cadlink users share these changings. I haven't found anything on the forum about this. Neorip is the same from when I bought it and here we discuss about GC.
I'm really interested in any improvement because I haven't married Neorip for example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorGRAFIX
No doubt that Df and NeoRIP are big players in the RIP area. I just think that GC is getting better and better. I think that for big production cats like you a 3rd party RIP can be very important. I just don't think that most folks that want to get into DTG fall into this big player category and the GC would be more attractive to them for it's ease of use and no money spent.
Considering a really conservative 20% of ink saved using a RIP, my ROI for the neorip is set to about 2500 prints.
If you don't print this amount in an year, I don't know if dtg is feasible for your business because the maintenance costs are too high
 






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