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Crap Colours on White Shirts

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Old January 7th, 2015 Jan 7, 2015 7:56:20 PM -   #1 (permalink)
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Default Crap Colours on White Shirts

At the moment I'm struggling to get strong vivid matching colours on pretreated white garments. Especially greens and blues! Check out the pics.

The design printed on pretreated Grey Marle shirts with White Base looks like it should.
Same design printed on pretreated White looks dull and the green/teal is not even close to matching what it should look like. Basically in comparison it looks like crap on white!

Not the first time I've experienced this either this is just one clear example of my issue because the design is going onto lights and darks.

I'm using Epson pretreat with a 3:1 mix on white, (which is what's recommended for white), and 1:1 on darks.

It's enough of a pain having to pretreat white in order to improve vibrancy and wash fastness, but when the results aren't their, it defeats the whole purpose.

Anyone else experiencing this issue? Any suggestions on a fix?

Edit: Oh, and I'm using Garment Creator, (for now).
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File Type: jpg Haddos Grey.jpg (654.8 KB, 183 views)
File Type: jpg Haddos White.jpg (585.5 KB, 185 views)

Last edited by Mammath; January 7th, 2015 at 09:34 PM..
 
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Old January 8th, 2015 Jan 8, 2015 3:35:58 PM -   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Crap Colours on White Shirts

I've experienced this same issue when printing on whites vs darks. Vibrant colors on darks, but muted, almost half-way colors on whites. Would love to hear other's experience/fixes for this.
 
Old January 8th, 2015 Jan 8, 2015 5:52:23 PM -   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Crap Colours on White Shirts

Kind of glad I'm not alone in this but also disappointed to hear others are having the same issue. It's been bothering me for sometime but this week it really pissed me off with a couple of jobs. That's why I'm posting because I need a fix for this.

I've sent the pics to my dealer but haven't heard back yet.

In Aus' this is a $25K machine and if it can't print descent spot colours on white shirts it's not worth a pinch of sh*t!

I've also been struggling with printing basic blues and greens straight onto white shirts. Always seems to come out dirty green and the blue is purple, and I mean really purple!

Here's a pic of a rush job on 4 shirts I had earlier in the week. This was a simple green and navy blue design going onto white. I used the same vector Ai file they had for signage and check out how it printed.

I'm not expecting exact colour reproductions but this result was way off! I mean WTF?
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File Type: jpg APC Logo.jpg (1.71 MB, 93 views)
File Type: jpg APC Purple.jpg (319.9 KB, 106 views)
 
 
Old January 8th, 2015 Jan 8, 2015 7:50:34 PM -   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Crap Colours on White Shirts

Are you pretreating the white shirts? I normally do not pretreat my white shirts nor some of the light colors depending on the price point the customer is looking at.

I no longer use GC..but use the NeoRip (Kothari) from All American...I did experiment the first week with GC and white shirts..

I always do a two pass on my shirts that I do not put pretreatment on...so I normally dial back the amount of ink and do two passes...I just finished some jobs doing two passes at 60%..with a 20% color boost and will be doing two 75% with a 20% color boost on all my future jobs. You do have to watch your colors though, applying more ink will darken your colors at some point..you just have to balance.

In GC have you tried the 16 pass setting?

will try to post a few pictures..but working late on a few orders tonight.

hope this helps some
 
Old January 8th, 2015 Jan 8, 2015 8:04:21 PM -   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Crap Colours on White Shirts

Thanks for the input.

Yes I've been pretreating all the white shirts I print because the results are better than without. When I say better I mean not as bad.

I mostly use setting 3 for print colour quality in GC which is the 16 pass and I double strike to get better coverage even on pretreated shirts when I have a design with mainly bold areas of colour.

My struggle with the hotdog print is the difference between the print on the white garments compared to the black. I expect their to be some differences but not as much I got. I only did a single 16 pass on that white shirt print because when I backed off the colour did a double strike the reds became to heavy and went brown.

I did manage to get that last print I posted looking better by spending a lot of time printing swatches of blues and greens and going with the ones that best matched the colours I needed. Fair bit of messing around though and the green still wasn't a great match and remained dirty. (See pic)

I'm sure there's a file of printable swatches somewhere here on this forum to help match colours but haven't been able to find it yet.
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File Type: jpg APC Back.jpg (308.4 KB, 100 views)

Last edited by Mammath; January 8th, 2015 at 08:12 PM..
 
Old January 8th, 2015 Jan 8, 2015 8:17:37 PM -   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Crap Colours on White Shirts

understand...color matching is a pain...I used to have to fight color matching with my rip on my first DTG...We spent a lot of time doing the color swatch method to find the color that would come out of the printer.....it was a real pain the first few jobs with the Epson...being I had to match some of my old jobs....but now my wife designs in RGB the colors that we are wanting and the RIP does the rest. I have had great luck with pictures and even clipart as well.

Check out DTG Ready facebook page...Chuck just did a post of a RGB color chart..if you do not find it let me know and I will get it to you




I am having great experience with the NeoRip and color matching..
 
Old January 8th, 2015 Jan 8, 2015 8:31:39 PM -   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Crap Colours on White Shirts

The F2000 seems do the difficult stuff (well like photo reproductions on white tees look amazing), full colour on black, amazing, but it's frustrating when it struggles to do the simple stuff like basic spot colours on white.

The amount of time I spent getting the colours right for a 4 shirt job was stupid. But DTG is a new frontier for me after screen printing for the last 27 years so I understand there's a learning curve. But I certainly didn't figure the hardest part to DTG would be printing easy stuff on white shirts! Thought that would be a no-brainer!

Anyway, I'll have a look for that colour chart and let you know how I get on.

My Neorip Demo should be on it's way by now...
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Old January 9th, 2015 Jan 9, 2015 12:26:38 AM -   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Crap Colours on White Shirts

Thanks Roy, got the colour chart from DTG Ready's FB page. (See attachment for those new to DTG that are feeling the frustration reproducing the simplest of sh*t on the F2000).

Anyone else with printable RGB charts that expand on this feel welcome to respond. More the merrier.

I'll run out some prints tomorrow to see how the F2000 interprets these colours.
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Old January 9th, 2015 Jan 9, 2015 4:16:05 AM -   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Crap Colours on White Shirts

White shirts have the smallest gamut and because of this are the hardest to get the colors to pop.

I think the rendering intent that GC uses causes some of the problem, but I don't think you can change it in GC.
I am sure you would find a 3rd party RIP gives you better results.

We found that printing the white shirt it two passes CY first and then MK produced a much more vibrant print, GC cant do this, but can do Y then CMK, although that helps with bleed it doesn't seem to help much with the colors.

Have you tried increasing the saturation and / or the color density in Garment Creator ?

Best regards

_David
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Old January 9th, 2015 Jan 9, 2015 8:19:21 AM -   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Crap Colours on White Shirts

Quote:
Originally Posted by cavedave
White shirts have the smallest gamut and because of this are the hardest to get the colors to pop.

I think the rendering intent that GC uses causes some of the problem, but I don't think you can change it in GC.
I am sure you would find a 3rd party RIP gives you better results.

We found that printing the white shirt it two passes CY first and then MK produced a much more vibrant print, GC cant do this, but can do Y then CMK, although that helps with bleed it doesn't seem to help much with the colors.

Have you tried increasing the saturation and / or the color density in Garment Creator ?

Best regards

_David
I agree splitting the CMYK print process makes a very noticeable difference when printing on white and I use it regularly.
 
Old January 9th, 2015 Jan 9, 2015 2:17:01 PM -   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Crap Colours on White Shirts

Quote:
Originally Posted by cavedave
White shirts have the smallest gamut and because of this are the hardest to get the colors to pop.

I think the rendering intent that GC uses causes some of the problem, but I don't think you can change it in GC.
I am sure you would find a 3rd party RIP gives you better results.

We found that printing the white shirt it two passes CY first and then MK produced a much more vibrant print, GC cant do this, but can do Y then CMK, although that helps with bleed it doesn't seem to help much with the colors.

Have you tried increasing the saturation and / or the color density in Garment Creator ?

Best regards

_David
Thanks David, it's good to know why there is an issue when printing on white.

The hotdog print on white in my opening post was run out with +20% ink density and +5 saturation. I do tend to use those settings with complex designs going onto white. For bold spot colour designs on white tees I have to double strike to get the coverage as with the chiro' print example.

I think these levels of saturation and density could be further increased because the sampling I've done indicates there's not a great deal of difference in comparison to standard settings.
 
Old January 9th, 2015 Jan 9, 2015 2:24:09 PM -   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Crap Colours on White Shirts

you will see an incredible difference with a 3rd party RIP. my guess is that the NeoRIP from AA will greatly improve your happiness.
 
Old January 9th, 2015 Jan 9, 2015 2:29:39 PM -   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Crap Colours on White Shirts

Quote:
Originally Posted by 23spiderman
you will see an incredible difference with a 3rd party RIP. my guess is that the NeoRIP from AA will greatly improve your happiness.
I've ordered and paid for the NeoRIP demo, (haven't heard if it's even been despatched yet). When it arrives downunder I'll then download the Digital Factory Demo and begin sampling all over again.

Edit: I'll certainly have plenty of crap Garment Creator reproductions to use as a comparison!

Last edited by Mammath; January 9th, 2015 at 02:35 PM..
 
Old January 9th, 2015 Jan 9, 2015 5:35:20 PM -   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Crap Colours on White Shirts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mammath
I've ordered and paid for the NeoRIP demo, (haven't heard if it's even been despatched yet). When it arrives downunder I'll then download the Digital Factory Demo
Paid for the demo? Cadlink with Cavedave's support has been awesome. Great guy.... Great company... Great RIP.
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Old January 9th, 2015 Jan 9, 2015 5:55:20 PM -   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Crap Colours on White Shirts

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4u2bSeen
Paid for the demo?
Yes. $50.00 usd for the dongle key, plus shipping to Aus'. I was given a discount so the freight ended up costing more than the dongle.
 






This is a discussion about Crap Colours on White Shirts that was posted in the Epson SureColor DTG Printers section of the forums.

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