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NeoRip 2000 vs Garment Creator on Epson DTG

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Old March 29th, 2014 Mar 29, 2014 10:07:29 PM -   #61 (permalink)
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Default Re: NeoRip 2000 vs Garment Creator on Epson DTG

Quote:
Originally Posted by lazographics
Where did you get the idea that I was going to one up you? I was just curious to know if the example shown was used with two different Rips and which versions. There is a significant difference between the two. Thats what this thread is about. Comparing Rips.
I didn't think you were going to one up me, or anything. My point is it doesn't matter to the core of my question, and it didn't want the responses to break away from generic RIP analysis and overall what makes a quality image.

The examples are different RIP's and printers. I was just using the pictures as a visual example of my question. But, if it's important to you, neoflex & neorip on left, brother 782 and brother driver (no rip) on the right.
 
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Old March 30th, 2014 Mar 30, 2014 3:09:08 AM -   #62 (permalink)
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Default Re: NeoRip 2000 vs Garment Creator on Epson DTG

Quote:
Originally Posted by Printzilla
Dave - awesome reply! I have a follow up, with an example.

In the pic below, focusing on the area to the left of the upper neck, is it the white under base management, or a more restricted color LUT(look up table), that causes the print on the right to not transition as smoothly at the edges as the print on the left? Or is it both? If both, which do you deem more critical in getting the smooth gradients and transitions?

Thanks for taking the time to help us "cavemen" understand fire........

Zilla
The difference between the Left and Right hand print to me would be the different between having created an ICC profile based on a black removal and at the same time taking into account the white underbase (its separation curve), so that the ICC profile can do its thing accurately and on the right where the black removal, White separation curve have not been used in the creation of the ICC profile. The problem on the right hand print is the white underbase is to strong (to much white) going down and hiding the shirt.

You could fix the left hand image by adjusting the white separation curve (if it has that option), but that isn't a good fix as it means you need to make adjustments for each job (you could probably improve 90% of images with a better separation curve for white). But its really not the right approach.

If you create the ICC profile using the black removal and your white separation curve it will avoid this and you can just print the job and everything should just work, everything should be taken into account.

There are some (well quite a few) tricks to this, as you have to create the ICC in CMYK and black removal in CMYK is different to RGB and there are other issues you need to think through.

How you actually do this (create the ICC etc..) depends on the RIP and the options available.

As I have said several times on this discussion board create print modes / profiles for Apparel printing is much more difficult than normal paper printing.
But if you are looking to do this, hopefully this will put you on the right trail.

Best regards

-David
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Old March 30th, 2014 Mar 30, 2014 4:33:26 AM -   #63 (permalink)
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Default Re: NeoRip 2000 vs Garment Creator on Epson DTG

Thanks again Dave - I have zero interest in attempting this myself. I hate doing it on vinyl with my Eye-one spectro. I will leave the shirts to you. I just always wondered why some RIP's just really outshine others.
 
 
Old March 30th, 2014 Mar 30, 2014 11:24:20 PM -   #64 (permalink)
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Default Re: NeoRip 2000 vs Garment Creator on Epson DTG

This thread have many Great questions and Answers.
Marc, you did not get changed bit. You always have that point cross technique. You used to make Tsf members eyes glued on you posts about Brother machine you used to own.
Welcome back! You seem more active here than before.
DTG is made by 3 components.
Hardware + Software + Chemical
We are talking about 3 Softwares here.
One is Firmware software. Which tell machine what to when to moves. .
2nd is RIP software which tell machine We have xxx color shirts so Machine need this much inks to make best image.
3rd is "Profile which is add on RIP software later time.
Most RIP softwares are similar on/to every Hardware. While we have 100's different hardwares plus include DIY and made in China.. It is tuff to RIP writer can profiling every single Hardwares. David said one time he need 1000 plus patches to do right on single color Profiling. So, it is more responsible to in Resellers hand. All Resellers were distributed by same Tool and same Gem stone. Who does have best Shiny Stone will be determined by END users. Similar as Mac vs. Window. Imho.
Suffering Jet lag. 3:15AM here Aeoon Austria. Need sleep for tomorrow's meeting. I mean today~
Cheers! RIPs are on me always.
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Old April 2nd, 2014 Apr 2, 2014 1:29:00 PM -   #65 (permalink)
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Default Re: NeoRip 2000 vs Garment Creator on Epson DTG

Quote:
The examples are different RIP's and printers. I was just using the pictures as a visual example of my question. But, if it's important to you, neoflex & neorip on left, brother 782 and brother driver (no rip) on the right.
My above post was referring to this quote. Chad, your demo RIP was sent.
If you can please post your opinion here to share with TSF members.
Cheers! Inks are on me always.
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Last edited by allamerican; April 2nd, 2014 at 01:40 PM..
 
Old April 3rd, 2014 Apr 3, 2014 2:49:20 AM -   #66 (permalink)
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Default Re: NeoRip 2000 vs Garment Creator on Epson DTG

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeridHill
We are waiting for our printer to come back from Epson. Once it's back, I'll print some samples and show both ways the white can be generated.
What is going on? I am waiting to see your RIP vs GC white ink layer.
At least once we could agree I hope Didn't you just received Stock shipping? I thought AA received last. Do you have only one printer?
Many are waiting include who gave you pre Thanks.
If you want I will send same file.
Good chance to proof I am wrong. If so not the first time.
If you reduce white forcefully, CYMK will not print Nice. Black will starting to print which should not. Touch feeling also very important factor. Card board feeling is no no No.
Use scale to analyze ink saving and let us know.
Cheers! Beers are on me always.
Quote:
Originally Posted by allamerican
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Last edited by allamerican; April 3rd, 2014 at 03:42 AM..
 
Old April 7th, 2014 Apr 7, 2014 2:09:17 PM -   #67 (permalink)
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Default Re: NeoRip 2000 vs Garment Creator on Epson DTG

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeridHill
We are waiting for our printer to come back from Epson. Once it's back, I'll print some samples and show both ways the white can be generated.
Any idea when you are getting your printer back?
 
Old April 7th, 2014 Apr 7, 2014 2:11:54 PM -   #68 (permalink)
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Default Re: NeoRip 2000 vs Garment Creator on Epson DTG

Quote:
Originally Posted by Printzilla
Any idea when you are getting your printer back?
We got it back Thursday and I've been too busy to print. I'll print tomorrow and post my results. Sorry for the delay.
 
Old April 8th, 2014 Apr 8, 2014 5:54:17 AM -   #69 (permalink)
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Default Re: NeoRip 2000 vs Garment Creator on Epson DTG

This is a different design, but this is using the newest GC software.
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Old April 8th, 2014 Apr 8, 2014 1:53:22 PM -   #70 (permalink)
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Default Re: NeoRip 2000 vs Garment Creator on Epson DTG

Thanks Jerid. I would like to see the same image. While this print looks great, there is nothing to compare it to. Peter can you get this image and print it with NeoRip?
 
Old April 8th, 2014 Apr 8, 2014 1:55:57 PM -   #71 (permalink)
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Default Re: NeoRip 2000 vs Garment Creator on Epson DTG

Actually, Jerid can you post a link to the image? I would like to print it myself on several machines with several RIP's and settings.
 
Old April 8th, 2014 Apr 8, 2014 2:00:54 PM -   #72 (permalink)
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Default Re: NeoRip 2000 vs Garment Creator on Epson DTG

Marc, here is the link to the file I used. The only thing I did was crop off the little 7 in the upper right. I also sent it in to print and after it printed the white layer, I trashed the color layer. So this is only the white layer. I didn't want to print the color layer to "hide" all of the additional areas where white would print. As you can see, there is depth, much like a RIP would produce, whereas if you look at the 2 images posted prior to mine, there is depth in the second image, but quite a bit of "mid-tone" in the first, in other words, no depth.

Also, if there was no file prep for this image, the current version of GC would print white in a large square, whereas this version dropped out the black and didn't print white under it. I can guarantee the image I am linking to is the same image, even with the black background, that the version of GC soon to be released handled. It would not have printed black ink if I would have allowed it to finish the color printing.

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/or...20227a1465.jpg

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Old April 8th, 2014 Apr 8, 2014 3:11:39 PM -   #73 (permalink)
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Default Re: NeoRip 2000 vs Garment Creator on Epson DTG

I've been trying for YEARS to get some kind of a standard set of images for DTG comparison, but to no avail.

There are 4 types of items I'd love to see as a standard -- maybe @Rodney would be willing to release the old annual DTG contest images for re-purposing?

1. Solid color jobs -- the most typical of DTG jobs we do, with 3-4 solid colors used for a logo or event piece
2. Photographic jobs (like the watch). Something with gradients and even "metallic" shines to it.
3. Tight and small detailed images like vector illustrations and small fonts
4. Popular Pantone colors from popular logos (Coca Cola red, McDonalds yellow, BP green and T-Mobile magenta) -- without the logos, naturally.

The challenge for a RIP is doing all of these well, without a lot of manipulation in Photoshop.
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Old April 8th, 2014 Apr 8, 2014 3:47:01 PM -   #74 (permalink)
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Default Re: NeoRip 2000 vs Garment Creator on Epson DTG

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeridHill
This is a different design, but this is using the newest GC software.
Even though this isn't the same image as what Peter had posted, it's pretty clear that your version of GC does a nice job in creating soft transitions from shadow to highlight. It's also nice when you can produce an underbase where fine texture is visible in it. The final print with color will obviously look 3 dimensional. Nice job!
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Old April 8th, 2014 Apr 8, 2014 4:47:51 PM -   #75 (permalink)
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Default Re: NeoRip 2000 vs Garment Creator on Epson DTG

Jerid,
Once a customer purchases and downloads GC how are they notified of software update availability?

Good post by the way

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