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Garment Creator Capabilities

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Old December 20th, 2013 Dec 20, 2013 3:47:34 PM -   #1 (permalink)
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Default Garment Creator Capabilities

Garment Creator may have its limitations, but these 3 images were the exact same file. After looking at the final prints, I'd say the limitations are not extreme. I call them, Good, Better, Best! No RIP, all Epson's Garment Creator out of the box. It's still in Beta, but improving every day. The first one was 2 passes of white, 1 color and the 2nd 2 were 1 pass white, 1 pass color.
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Old December 20th, 2013 Dec 20, 2013 7:24:05 PM -   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Garment Creator Capabilities

Two pictures are worth two thousand words....
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Old December 20th, 2013 Dec 20, 2013 7:39:34 PM -   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Garment Creator Capabilities

My goal is to attempt to achieve the best possible print from what is out of the box. Garment Creator is extremely simple to use, and as you can see, does a more than adequate (in other words, very good) job. The purpose of a RIP is to achieve great results and give more control, but with results like these, Garment Creator may very well be all that most people will need or even want. I'm not saying we won't provide a RIP solution, I'm saying why try to sell everyone on a RIP if it's not necessary. Some people may want one and others may not. Use the tools that best fit the needs of the person or company printing.
 
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Old December 20th, 2013 Dec 20, 2013 8:18:34 PM -   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Garment Creator Capabilities

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeridHill
My goal is to attempt to achieve the best possible print from what is out of the box. Garment Creator is extremely simple to use, and as you can see, does a more than adequate (in other words, very good) job. The purpose of a RIP is to achieve great results and give more control, but with results like these, Garment Creator may very well be all that most people will need or even want. I'm not saying we won't provide a RIP solution, I'm saying why try to sell everyone on a RIP if it's not necessary. Some people may want one and others may not. Use the tools that best fit the needs of the person or company printing.
I understand your points.
Epson as is better than many out there but optimize capability to max isn't a bad idea too. This is why you said "I'm not saying we won't provide RIP solution" in future. Why?
Rip also extremely easy to use. 4 clicks and print.
With very inexpensive/cheap price tag there are no reason to not look for better result if there are betters. IMHO.
How will you take out black ink while you print black shirts?
As Dave(RIP writer)said on other thread, if we use Garment Creator "image will get edged(? Not good, right?)". I thought this was AA's printing skill shortage but when Dave(very respectable) said this I realized it was not AA printing skill.
Any solution? It is shame we cannot show by picture. Black ink on black shirts wasn't look good at all (kind a smudged look). Also Dave said "use photoshop to do so". Photoshop is the hard one to use/learn than any rip out there.
I hope your RIP will be ready soon. My door is open always.
Cheers!
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Last edited by allamerican; December 20th, 2013 at 08:35 PM..
 
Old December 21st, 2013 Dec 21, 2013 6:01:13 AM -   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Garment Creator Capabilities

Quote:
Originally Posted by allamerican
I mean pictures like this big and clear.
Peter,

In my opinion, the forum picture upload is better because it does not require me to scroll left and right to read the text written in all the threads on the page. When you post the image the way you did, it requires people to scroll. The forum upload feature allows people to click on the thumbnail to see a medium size picture. From there, you can click on the medium size picture in the lightbox and see the full size picture in a different tab / window. Thus, forum members get the benefit of seeing a larger picture if they want without having to scroll.

Mark
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Old December 21st, 2013 Dec 21, 2013 6:15:14 AM -   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Garment Creator Capabilities

I do want to bring clarification to the three prints. The first one was printed the day before the other two and before I did a head alignment. Doing a head alignment is as simple as selecting it in the menu, the printer prints bars and you indicate which set of bars has the least amount of gaps. The second set was done the following day and playing around with settings in Garment Creator. Once you have what you want, you can save it as a preset. The simplicity of Garment Creator is importing your file, select the preset and hit print, nothing else needed.
 
Old December 21st, 2013 Dec 21, 2013 12:08:55 PM -   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Garment Creator Capabilities

Quote:
Originally Posted by allamerican
I understand your points.
Epson as is better than many out there but optimize capability to max isn't a bad idea too. This is why you said "I'm not saying we won't provide RIP solution" in future. Why?
Rip also extremely easy to use. 4 clicks and print.
With very inexpensive/cheap price tag there are no reason to not look for better result if there are betters. IMHO.
How will you take out black ink while you print black shirts?
As Dave(RIP writer)said on other thread, if we use Garment Creator "image will get edged(? Not good, right?)". I thought this was AA's printing skill shortage but when Dave(very respectable) said this I realized it was not AA printing skill.
Any solution? It is shame we cannot show by picture. Black ink on black shirts wasn't look good at all (kind a smudged look). Also Dave said "use photoshop to do so". Photoshop is the hard one to use/learn than any rip out there.
I hope your RIP will be ready soon. My door is open always.
Cheers!
Actualy Photoshop and DTG is not that hard even for people not familiar with graphic design.

I personally made couple of photoshop actions for my employes to use since I'm not running the printers personaly anymore.

For example I'm testing now one of the RIPS which standard output is not as desirable but with one click photoshop action and the use of this RIP I have even better quality on blacks than with my R1900 Kothari.

DTG delaers could provide this type of actions sets, for removing background, for color correction and such to their customers.

In this case Garment Creator could do the job just right.
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Old December 21st, 2013 Dec 21, 2013 12:49:23 PM -   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Garment Creator Capabilities

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smalzstein
DTG delaers could provide this type of actions sets, for removing background, for color correction and such to their customers.
that's the one of biggest parts of RIP's job, am I wrong? You just described RIP in another good words.
Also color profiling on other color shirts. So many colors out there. This is one of the reasons why requires 100s of hours labor have to put in to provide the best quality to end users.
We all start cooking with same beef. Some one will make hamburger, stew, steak, or 5* Restraunt dish. Which Beef dish are you prefer to get served at same price tag?
I read Jerid said GC is Good Enough to normal users. Are you a one of normal users? How many of us want to be a normal? You? Especially knowing your sharp taste? Pls don't tell me you are one of them. You seems very proud of you are using same rip as AA. I said this because your post more than often saying this. I understand why~.
Cheers! Merry Christmas.
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Last edited by allamerican; December 22nd, 2013 at 04:35 AM..
 
Old December 26th, 2013 Dec 26, 2013 8:11:01 PM -   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Garment Creator Capabilities

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeridHill
My goal is to attempt to achieve the best possible print from what is out of the box. Garment Creator is extremely simple to use, and as you can see, does a more than adequate (in other words, very good) job. The purpose of a RIP is to achieve great results and give more control, but with results like these, Garment Creator may very well be all that most people will need or even want. I'm not saying we won't provide a RIP solution, I'm saying why try to sell everyone on a RIP if it's not necessary. Some people may want one and others may not. Use the tools that best fit the needs of the person or company printing.
There in lies the problem, attempting to achieve the best results with what is out of the box. This is what people want to avoid and what a RIP will provide for them.

There will be those who are satisfied with what is out of the box and those who won't find those results acceptable. Personally I find that using a RIP software makes the process easier. Yes a RIP software provides more ways to adjust imaging, however when the software works properly there are very few cases in which you need to adjust any settings.

That being said the Garment Creator software is very easy to use hopefully they add some more functionality and better color management and it should be adequate for the general public.
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Old December 26th, 2013 Dec 26, 2013 8:38:27 PM -   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Garment Creator Capabilities

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnL
There in lies the problem, attempting to achieve the best results with what is out of the box. This is what people want to avoid and what a RIP will provide for them.

There will be those who are satisfied with what is out of the box and those who won't find those results acceptable. Personally I find that using a RIP software makes the process easier. Yes a RIP software provides more ways to adjust imaging, however when the software works properly there are very few cases in which you need to adjust any settings.

That being said the Garment Creator software is very easy to use hopefully they add some more functionality and better color management and it should be adequate for the general public.
Strange choice of words. The results I achieved versus what was shown by AA was night and day. The settings I used for Garment Creator can easily become standard, so I'm not sure how people wouldn't want it out of the box. They wouldn't have to find what settings are best to use, that's what our job as dealers would be. If someone wants to spend more to buy a RIP, then they see the value in it, but the results I have shown are easily achieved and once again can be set as standards. I have a hard time believing these results are only for the "general public". I didn't realize achieving the best results with what's out of the box was a negative thing.

The purpose of this thread wasn't to get into a dueling match with other dealers, it was to show what Garment Creator was capable of, in fairness to what Epson has achieved, let's try to keep it that way.
 
Old December 26th, 2013 Dec 26, 2013 9:15:46 PM -   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Garment Creator Capabilities

This may of been answered before, but whats the ink cost on the Epson? Also do they have a bulk ink option?
 
Old December 27th, 2013 Dec 27, 2013 12:59:24 AM -   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Garment Creator Capabilities

We buy salt for better taste food. RIP is **very cheap** when/who look for better result.
GC is good but can be better with effortless cost/help? No reason to be negative.
Ink saving along worth for "Cheap RIP" before better image. Imagine if save is 10-20%, depends on image~ still~.
***$385.25/liter*** All colors by 600ml cart.
***$477.00/liter by 250ml cart.
We will face results at ISS show in Long Beach. I encourage future buyers should bring **own art work** to ISS show and test all 6 dealers output.
Why Jerid said and leave room for future possible RIP offer. Conflict? I like consistency
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeridHill
I'm not saying we won't provide a RIP solution

MP5 Hacker, ink price was addressed many times here. Bulk ink is not available for now. Will it in future?
Who knows? Will you hack it? Lol. Do not make any sense for now.
Cheers! Beers are on me always.
Question left is
Does Brother will announce Surprise Shock at ISS or maintain position? Ball is in their court. Lol, I love foresee things.
Epson sent ball to their court couple months ago. Result was ink price went down and rebate for any OLD Dtg trade in for $5000. Aggressive but is it enough?
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Last edited by allamerican; December 27th, 2013 at 06:14 AM..
 
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Old December 28th, 2013 Dec 28, 2013 2:12:45 AM -   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Garment Creator Capabilities

Garment Creator can do soft edges, but it doesn't do this if you remove black from within Garment Creator. You have to setup the transparency in something like Photoshop first, save as a TIF or PNG an then import.

It can produce good output when everything is setup correctly that can rival a RIP output. But it does take more steps and more skill that a RIP would take. For example a good RIP will offer printing onto a black shirt that shouldn't be anything more than import and print.

A good RIP can also offer a lot of other features / benefits over Garment Creator (not just print quality), such as tools for background removal, templates for automatic sizing and positioning, multiple queues (presets), automatic black removal for black shirts, PSD support CMYK support.
All these things mean you can get better output with less skilled operators.

I am sure there will be users who will buy the machine and wont want to spend any more on 3rd party RIP software, I am also sure there will be users who will consider the small % for the RIP in comparison to the $20K for the printer as a good investment.

Garment Creator should push the RIP companies like us to make further improvements to make bigger differentiation between the RIP and the bundled software, the end users will be the ultimate winners.

I would hope that the end users will see our RIP as a small cost in comparison to the machine that can easily justify the benefits it brings to running the machine daily.

Best regards

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Old December 30th, 2013 Dec 30, 2013 1:58:35 PM -   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Garment Creator Capabilities

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeridHill
Strange choice of words. The results I achieved versus what was shown by AA was night and day. The settings I used for Garment Creator can easily become standard, so I'm not sure how people wouldn't want it out of the box. They wouldn't have to find what settings are best to use, that's what our job as dealers would be. If someone wants to spend more to buy a RIP, then they see the value in it, but the results I have shown are easily achieved and once again can be set as standards. I have a hard time believing these results are only for the "general public". I didn't realize achieving the best results with what's out of the box was a negative thing.

The purpose of this thread wasn't to get into a dueling match with other dealers, it was to show what Garment Creator was capable of, in fairness to what Epson has achieved, let's try to keep it that way.
Sorry Jerid, i didn't mean to come off negative. The two pictures posted by Peter were default settings with our software and Epson's Garment Creator. He posted them to show the difference between default settings right out of the box.

In other word both prints were the first to come off the machine the only difference being the software. We were able to achieve much better results after another print or two with a color tweak here and there with the Garment Creator but utilizing our software it was near perfect from the first print with the default settings.

From my experience in the past just because a certain setting worked well for us with this image does not mean it will work well for another image. This caused me many headaches in the past and I'm sure you can relate to this.

Its great that you want to show the capabilities of the Garment Creator or what is straight out of the box, but personally as a consumer I appreciate a pros and cons approach. Hopefully I'm not just speaking for myself here but I think a pros and cons approach allows me to see the advantages and the short comings of a particular product. Taking into account the pros and cons would allow me to make a better decision.
 
Old January 3rd, 2014 Jan 3, 2014 5:09:37 PM -   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Garment Creator Capabilities

Now we think we mastered F2000 Epson.
Another pictures. Focus hair color.
Garment Creator driver One pass white CYMK one pass.


3rd party BETA RIP used.



GC. Orange block appeared. Shouldn't be there.




All are 1x1. Epson Pretreat.
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