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Epson Garment Creator Software

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Old May 9th, 2014 May 9, 2014 2:38:34 PM -   #61 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson Garment Creator Software

Weighing the ink carts would give an average usage only if having done a lot of same prints. What did the printer do during the print. Spit in tray a quick auto clean. Weighing is not as simple as it seems. The cost calculators count pico liters fired. Once again as accurate as programmed. But most will be in the neighborhood if ink cost is entered correctly. Weighing the shirt after printing and before pressing might give a better and easier way to verify ink. Ink itself may weigh different depending on brand etc. But 1 ml to 1g is close. On average of cmykw mix. Just an estimate.
GC will continue to improve as so will the 3rd party rips. But really the trials are free to test. It's not only the ink but time invovled. Color profiles loaded. What's the odds of first shirt sellable? $1500 for rip, who is selling at that price?
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Old May 10th, 2014 May 10, 2014 3:14:09 AM -   #62 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson Garment Creator Software

GC cost calculation includes a very large contingency, so unless you put in the same contingency into the cost calculator of the RIP software you are not comparing apples to apples.

Our experience (and we have been using the F2000 since August) is that you will use around $150-200 US a month in ink from general maintenance.
Sounds a lot but really depends how many shirts you print a month, if you only do 200, its a buck a shirt, but if you do 1000, its 25c a shirt. You need to factor this in.

For this reason I don't think GC cost calculator is very good as the contingence is fixed and in reality its not fixed, its very much based on the number of shirts you produce in a month.

I have said this before (and I work and represent a RIP company), but beware ink saving claims of RIP vs GC. You will notice I don't go around pushing this and that's because I don't want to miss lead anyone. When you use White ink, if you don't pre process the image in Photoshop (to setup transparency), then a RIP will save you money, but if you do the pre processing there is no reason GC should cost you more than a RIP in terms of ink usage.
You also have more control in a RIP on how much white you put under dark areas (and on Color shirts black areas), so in theory you can always save on white with a RIP vs GC, but according to Epson if you don't put white between a color and a pre treatment then it will fade more in when washed. So beware.

The reason to consider a RIP is ease of use (its actually easier than GC) and consistently better print quality.


Best regards

-David
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Old May 10th, 2014 May 10, 2014 5:37:16 AM -   #63 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson Garment Creator Software

Hey David,

What do you mean pre-process in Photoshop. (Sorry noob here)

-Aj
 
 
Old May 10th, 2014 May 10, 2014 6:13:05 AM -   #64 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson Garment Creator Software

He means taking the image into Photoshop and spending minutes to hours manually creating the transparency channel. This is all fine and good but not always practical in a retail environment. The artwork that walks thru the door is so unpredictable and you would be amazed at what people bring in!
 
Old May 10th, 2014 May 10, 2014 6:13:24 AM -   #65 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson Garment Creator Software

Quote:
Originally Posted by cavedave
GC cost calculation includes a very large contingency, so unless you put in the same contingency into the cost calculator of the RIP software you are not comparing apples to apples.

Our experience (and we have been using the F2000 since August) is that you will use around $150-200 US a month in ink from general maintenance.
Sounds a lot but really depends how many shirts you print a month, if you only do 200, its a buck a shirt, but if you do 1000, its 25c a shirt. You need to factor this in.

For this reason I don't think GC cost calculator is very good as the contingence is fixed and in reality its not fixed, its very much based on the number of shirts you produce in a month.

I have said this before (and I work and represent a RIP company), but beware ink saving claims of RIP vs GC. You will notice I don't go around pushing this and that's because I don't want to miss lead anyone. When you use White ink, if you don't pre process the image in Photoshop (to setup transparency), then a RIP will save you money, but if you do the pre processing there is no reason GC should cost you more than a RIP in terms of ink usage.
You also have more control in a RIP on how much white you put under dark areas (and on Color shirts black areas), so in theory you can always save on white with a RIP vs GC, but according to Epson if you don't put white between a color and a pre treatment then it will fade more in when washed. So beware.

The reason to consider a RIP is ease of use (its actually easier than GC) and consistently better print quality.


Best regards

-David
David,
With respect of your knowledge I have mixed signal from your post. Read twice. My English? Maybe~.
So does your RIP save ink or not? Yes or Not?
Condition:
without modify on Photoshop. (Any way who wants to this on every art?) As is art in and click print.
Be Aware on total truth? Or your RIP is not doing it?
We used RIP used prints so many thousand? Not one reported washed out. What does this mean to you? Or am I on be aware list again?
Well~ enjoy Mother's Day. See u in FESPA.
Cheers! Beers are on me always.
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Last edited by allamerican; May 10th, 2014 at 06:18 AM..
 
Old May 10th, 2014 May 10, 2014 6:18:16 AM -   #66 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson Garment Creator Software

One end user reported me yesterday he saved 68%(depends on design). Be Aware!
Cheers! Inks are on me always.
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Old May 10th, 2014 May 10, 2014 6:22:10 AM -   #67 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson Garment Creator Software

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekay317
I just got the new Garment Creator v1.8 - Still can't beat the NeoRIP!! Crappy cell phone doesn't show the vibrancy difference but look at how GC handles color fading out into the shirt compared to NeoRIP.





So does Eric is on "Be aware Lists"?
Sounds like Wanted.
He is one of most straight fellows I know.
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Old May 10th, 2014 May 10, 2014 6:30:11 AM -   #68 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson Garment Creator Software

Epson is good image producing printer(compare to many out there) and it will shines more with reasonable and controllable consumable cost. Which everyone can do this. Except who does not care few bulks on each print.
Cheers! Inks are on me always.
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Old May 10th, 2014 May 10, 2014 6:35:21 AM -   #69 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson Garment Creator Software

Peter I didn't accuse your RIP of not washing well and our RIP can save you ink, especially if you are not going to setup the transparency for Garment Creator in something like Photoshop first.

I really don't want to get into a who's RIP is better, this is a discussion about Garment Creator and I was trying to point out that GC ink usage has a very high contingency, so you cant use that and just compare it to a RIP costing. That was the main point I was trying to make.

When it comes to a RIP saving ink in practical terms, as you know its about how you remove the background and setup the transparency (as that is what we all do to create the white) and while GC doesn't do this well, it can be done separately just as well in Photoshop first. If this is done then GC becomes more efficient in its ink usage.
After that the only difference between a RIP and GC will be how its pre processed (so how much white you use behind a color on dark shirts) and all I am saying is that Epson say you need white between Color and the pre treatment, Brother say the same thing and so does Dupont.
You don't always have to put down 100% white under these dark areas, but they all claim (and I have seen examples) where the black fades when there is no white used (for example on a grey shirt).
So there is a limit to what a RIP can do.

The difference in ink you can save if you use GC correctly vs a RIP, is not as much as the difference you can save between using a good shirt and a bad shirt.

Me I would rather convince people to use our RIP because its easier, produces consistently better output and has a whole host of features such as Supersize (for blowing up low res images) and Fluidmask (for removing complex backgrounds). There is much more important features in a RIP than the ink saving and I don't want to miss lead anyone about potential ink saving.


Best regards

-David

Best regards

-David
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Old May 10th, 2014 May 10, 2014 6:50:37 AM -   #70 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson Garment Creator Software

Peter there is no Be aware list and this is not a school play ground.
We don't need to try and organise people on to sides (which sometimes you seem to be trying to do), I wasn't having a dig at Eric or anybody and don't like the way you try and make out I was.
I make posts and stick to facts as much as I can that's all I am doing.

My Beware on the ink saving wasn't aimed at anyone or any specific comment only that if someone makes a claim it needs to be looked at closely and if for example its based on the costing from GC vs the ink estimate usage from a RIP, its unlikely to be an equal comparison.

I printed a 2x2" white area at 1440x1440dpi using GC, now I know exactly what the ink was in terms of volume on the page as I have the pl dot size from Epson In the programmers guide and can do the basic maths. Based on the costing from GC it was 35% higher than the actual ink that would be printed on the shirt.
I took this up with Epson and they said my calculations were correct in terms of ink used, but that they couldn't tell me how GC calculations were made.
Now for all I know Eric didn't use GC or Neorip to do the calculation (my post wasn't aim at anyone or any specific post). My point is simple if you are using GC costing, then its got a very big contingency.

That is all.

I know you want to sell your RIP and I want to sell mine, but I was trying to make a construct post about GC and its ink calculation / costing feature.

Best regards

-David
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Old May 10th, 2014 May 10, 2014 7:01:24 AM -   #71 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson Garment Creator Software

David,
As you know we sold many thousands of NeoFlex which used DuPont ink all day long.
None reported washout issue.
And all NeoFamily 100% are using same RIP as Katari offers to Epson F2000.
I experienced and saying "will not washout, while you said "they(Eposn, DuPont, Brother) said". It is quite a difference there.
I sold xx tons of DuPont ink in 2013. All users are SAME RIP users. Not one complained about washout.
DuPont never notified AA Be Aware(your favorite word?) notice. I sell DuPont ink while you are not selling also.
Please erase washout part from your post.
Cheers! Inks are on me always.
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Old May 10th, 2014 May 10, 2014 7:10:06 AM -   #72 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson Garment Creator Software

I want to add one more fact.
As you said Epson does not share info which was put into their ink calculator.
AA uses scales. Which cannot be "Be Aware".
If you did not do this try it. Most accurate and there are no mistakes and plays.
This is why USA Justice Department logo is Scale. what's yours?
Cheers! Inks are on me always.
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Old May 10th, 2014 May 10, 2014 7:20:37 AM -   #73 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson Garment Creator Software

Quote:
Originally Posted by cavedave
Peter there is no Be aware list and this is not a school play ground.
We don't need to try and organise people on to sides (which sometimes you seem to be trying to do), I wasn't having a dig at Eric or anybody and don't like the way you try and make out I was.
I make posts and stick to facts as much as I can that's all I am doing.

My Beware on the ink saving wasn't aimed at anyone or any specific comment only that if someone makes a claim it needs to be looked at closely and if for example its based on the costing from GC vs the ink estimate usage from a RIP, its unlikely to be an equal comparison.
-David
David,
I know you did not named "Peter" and "Eric".
I am the only one who keep singing "Ink Saving" in this forum. Tell me one more who you know..
Then I will agree on your above post which wasn't aimed
Let's say
You said in class "I hate Chinese" while only one Chinese in class.
You turn around and told that Chinese guy "I am not aiming to you or talking about you" LOL.
.
Make lots of sense, isn't it?
I know your English skill is way ahead of me but my sense is not behind you.
Thank you for not mentioning about WASHOUT Be Aware part again.
Cheers! Beers are on me always.
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Last edited by allamerican; May 10th, 2014 at 07:41 AM..
 
Old May 10th, 2014 May 10, 2014 7:48:35 AM -   #74 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson Garment Creator Software

Quote:
Originally Posted by allamerican
David,
I know you did not named "Peter" and "Eric".
I am the only one who keep singing "Ink Saving" in this forum. Tell me one more who you know..
Let's say
You said in class "I hate Chinese" while only one Chinese in class.
You turn around and told that Chinese guy "I am not aiming to you or talking about you" LOL.
Make lots of sense, isn't it?
I know your English skill is way ahead of me but my sense is not behind you.
Thank you for not mentioning about WASHOUT part again.
Cheers! Beers are on me always.
You really do talk a load of old bollocks at times Peter.

Its Sat and I am working, I added a post that I thought would be useful for those working on the F2000 and looking at or using GC.

Take it for what it is (or not) I don't care. It honestly wasn't an attack on you, your products or anyone in your family (regardless of you might be thinking, you are reading to much into my post).


This board isn't a place for us to argue (we can do that at Fespa if you want).

If you think that I said some fact that was wrong, then say it.
If you think that you don't need white between Pretreament and Color on the Epson or that Epson say you do, but in reality you don't. Just say it.
That would be useful information.


Best regards

-David
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Old May 10th, 2014 May 10, 2014 8:01:34 AM -   #75 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson Garment Creator Software

Useful information? I can dig it.
Light color pretreat and CYMK works FINE better than without.
Argue? Or debate? Paper thin different.
You did open possible Argument points and you aimed someone without Named.
Now you want to this disappear. Typical~
I was working until I read your post. Actually I am working with posting this. Lol.
Can I say "If there are no ink saving 40-60% I will give triple money back?" Then Am I in deeper aware list? In RED?
Please post some useful infos you really experienced not by others.
LOL, David let's end it here.
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Last edited by allamerican; May 10th, 2014 at 03:15 PM..
 






This is a discussion about Epson Garment Creator Software that was posted in the Epson SureColor DTG Printers section of the forums.

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