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Discussion, tips, pictures, reviews and peer to peer support for current and future Epson Brand SureColor garment printer owners.



EPSON SC F2000 dtg real price not 20k

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Old October 16th, 2013 Oct 16, 2013 5:18:13 AM -   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: EPSON SC F2000 dtg real price not 20k

Having done this for nearly 9 years now I will make an educated observation - charging the same price for a dual CMYK machine as you do for a CMYK4W machine means one of two things:
A - you are overcharging for the dual CMYK machine
B - you are undercharging for the CMYK4W machine
90% of the support and training on DTG machines focuses on the dark garment printing aspect of the machines. Epson is either positioning themselves to make really good money on the Dual CMYK machines or in for a rather harsh awakening when they recognize the level of support, service & training associated with printing dark garments.
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Old December 11th, 2013 Dec 11, 2013 4:58:22 PM -   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: EPSON SC F2000 dtg real price not 20k

Simple. The CMYK will print white shirts twice as fast as the CMYK-W. A 10x8 image will print in 27sec vs 54sec on the CMYK-W. There would be no reason to buy the CMYK only version unless you are using multiple printers and need the speed for your light shirts.
 
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Old December 28th, 2013 Dec 28, 2013 9:21:27 AM -   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: EPSON or other dtg real price not 20k

Hi everybody I have to give my opinion about DTG printers in general. First I have Brother GT-541 with over 55000 prints still using same heads. It is strong and reliable printer but it cant print on dark garments. When I say dark I mean anything that is not white. Yes it is possible to print on yellow, light pink or light blue but with colors that are more dark then base color. So that mean limitation and in this business mean you loosing costumers. Because of that I start looking for alternative to print on dark color shirts without limitation. That is point where I realize that is hard to make money with digital printers because of ink and cost of printers and there maintenance. All DTG printers have high demands on maintenance including Brother and Kornit that are rated best in this industry. Brother printer is cheaper then Kornit but Kornit have 4 times chipper prints than Brother. What I want to say is one or other way you will have to spend lots of money on printer and than you will need lots of money for ink than come pretreatment for dark and on top of that is not that simple as it looks. After all prints are impressive only before you wash them several times after that they start fading same as your hope that you will make some money. Actually now you are in fight to recover your money at least so you are ready to work for nothing. I don't want to be negative there is people and companies that make money this way but average Jo will have to learn hard way. I have been looking in to cheaper options at machines with Epson heads and I found lots of issues with performance and often clogged lines and nuzzles. That mean more work on maintenance more parts les productivity big frustrations. Now I see Epson finally decided to make printer for this purpose that have competitive price, or just looks like that. They don't talk about pretreatment , cost of inks , maintenance and finally nobody talks about real cost of prints. What I really care if I can make money and be competitive to screen printing. So I am looking at DTG to be affordable to have prints that are comparable to screen prints that will not start fading after several washes and to be in that price range. I don't se that any of this DTG printers can do that and thy price is astronomical. I don't say that DTG is bad in all aspects but there is long way before that technology will produce results that will be appealing to average Jo and in same time to be good for person that is behind all investments and work to produce this results. Thanks for understanding my comment and I apologies to everybody if I said something that is offending this is just my experience ( and may bi some more people that will agree with me).
 
 
Old December 28th, 2013 Dec 28, 2013 10:17:45 AM -   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: EPSON SC F2000 dtg real price not 20k

There is a new light at the end of the tunnel with new chemistry and New printers. The new Epson ink cost are high, just like brother, but maintenance promises to be low with reduced in waste. A lot better than u make it sound. But only time will tell, as for you comments on Kornit, let's just say IMHO I would have to say just the opposite. I rank them at the bottom of my list. 2014 the year of DTG come back!

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Old December 29th, 2013 Dec 29, 2013 9:07:42 AM -   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: EPSON SC F2000 dtg real price not 20k

Yes you are right time will tell who will bring printer that can compete and make money. For now we have to deal with what we have. I am personally on way to make something that will give me option to print on dark with my printer. If I make positive results I will post that for sure. Until then keep searching for better options and price of 20 000 for any DTG printer is ridiculous you can buy good car for that money. Just compare them side by side all technology and size . Yes somebody will say that is not same ok there is many CNC machines that have 4 axes and there cost is in range between 5k and 8k for really big one. Difference is only in print heads and I don't agree on price of 15 000 extra for them only. Take a look et carve wright it is small CNC I did have one. It works on same principal as printers and can carve in wood and some other materials. That one brand new is only couple thousand. So somebody here in this industry is able to sell good story about this printers and that is most what costumers get. Keep looking ad comparing you will understand what I am talking. Al the best and have happy new year.
 
Old January 2nd, 2014 Jan 2, 2014 10:30:30 AM -   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: EPSON SC F2000 dtg real price not 20k

The Epson and Brother printers are industrial machines hence the price tag. It doesn't make sense to compare them to a mass produced car.

Look at it this way; one BMW 3 series costs x hundred million dollars to design and manufacture. Projected sales of z million units is what makes the project viable.

These dtg machines have high design, manufacture and on going warranty/service costs but the amount of units they expect to sell are low due to it being a niche product. Unless everyone suddenly decides to start printing clothes at home prices for the proper industrial machines will stay high.

I hope and can't see the price of a machine such as this decreasing any time soon.

Worth the money imo and these are cheap as chips compared to the likes of Kornit and Aeoon.

Also I dont understand; surely you expect your garments to fade slightly after a few washes. From what i've noticed this depends on the garment being used as much as the printer or the inks. Plastisol cracks and peels and DTG prints fade slightly but in my opinion DTG is still a much better looking print and does things which screen will never be able to do.

Theres no competition really; you need to offer both options. Screen for single colour cheap and cheerful high quantity designs and dtg for a more complex higher quality product.
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Old January 2nd, 2014 Jan 2, 2014 10:34:57 PM -   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: EPSON SC F2000 dtg real price not 20k

Ok I am sorry I did compare car to printer, and price. Still you have to admit that care get better value because it make sense. We can compare printer cutters that have ability to print in full color on many different materials, can make banners and signs and like Roland BN20 Versa Studio and that one can print white or metallic and cost less then $9000 so that is more then half price. Don't take mi wrong I like some features that direct to garment printers offer but my opinion is they way overpriced. I remember 23 years I bought my first color ink jet printer HP desk jet 500c and I paid that one $1300 . Today you can buy 50 times better printer for $130 . So if I understand we are approximately about 8 years from official starting point of DTG printers. By my calculation if this industry make same progress as paper printing some time in 2028 we will be able to purchase DTG that will print on almost anything will be much faster and will cost about $2300. That is only theory and I hope somebody will lough on my comment. All the best in New Year to everybody here .
 
Old January 3rd, 2014 Jan 3, 2014 3:20:37 AM -   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: EPSON SC F2000 dtg real price not 20k

Well you have to look at the number users of desk top printers vs DTG. So 300 million vs 45 thousand, numbers are example only but..... U get the point. Desk top ink if bought in carts, $1500 per liter. DTG ink $225-$400 per liter. Mfg of desktop make money from ink not the printer it is sold at cost, MOL. Mfg of DTG don't have the consumable sales of Qty to sell the DTG at cost, and that cost is much higher due to amortization thru numbers. Then the tech support cost, which are very high in DTG world. So it maybe longer than 2028. Then there is inflation etc. The affect of Epson hitting the market was a drop in DTG sales price of 20% MOL.
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Old January 3rd, 2014 Jan 3, 2014 3:30:27 AM -   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: EPSON SC F2000 dtg real price not 20k

Randy has a very good point.

You can see how other vendors with cheap priners are doing - bad support, cash flow problems, missed deadalines, problem with parts avaibility.

Running a business cost. The money dosen't go just to the pocket.
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Old January 5th, 2014 Jan 5, 2014 8:07:55 AM -   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: EPSON SC F2000 dtg real price not 20k

Yes I agree , printer manufacturers make more money on ink then on printers. I learn that long time ago. And price for DTG ink is lower than paper ink because you need much more ink to make print on fabric. And that is point where we loosing fight against screen printing. We cant compete on large orders. The cost of print is at least 10 times lower than on DTG. And as I said before large orders are where you make money. It is more easy to find 4 costumers that need 250 shirts than 100 costumers that need 10 shirts. Even you can charge this small orders more money it is hard to find locally big number of costumers. That is reason why is cafepress.com successful they approaching costumers all over the world. And you need good website and lots of marketing and many people don't know how to do that properly. I don want to discourage anybody in this business I just want to tell what is obstacle and to motivate people to find solution and make better way in order to be more successful in there business and make more money then they invest.
 
Old January 20th, 2014 Jan 20, 2014 1:05:52 PM -   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: EPSON SC F2000 dtg real price not 20k

Hi!

I am about to order a direct t-shirt printer but like to read reviews from people with experience. I like the epson but it is new and it hasn't proved itself yet (am I wrong?). I like the quality of Brother but think the ink and accessories are quite expensive. I also like the Freejet because if I am informed well it is using a printer head and other elements of Epson.

Somebody who can give me advice?

Marieke
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Old January 20th, 2014 Jan 20, 2014 1:17:37 PM -   #27 (permalink)
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Default Re: EPSON SC F2000 dtg real price not 20k

Quote:
Originally Posted by mamamarieke
Hi!

I am about to order a direct t-shirt printer but like to read reviews from people with experience. I like the epson but it is new and it hasn't proved itself yet (am I wrong?). I like the quality of Brother but think the ink and accessories are quite expensive. I also like the Freejet because if I am informed well it is using a printer head and other elements of Epson.

Somebody who can give me advice?

Marieke
If you like Brother quality you will love Epson more.
Freejet is based on 2880 or 4880. Yes it is using Epson printer and modified. Nothing wrong with that. 2880 base cannot be compare with F2000. 4880 base could be. ***Check machine price and check ink price.***
We just finish show in Long Beach with Epson and NeoFlex.
Quality is there on Epson quality is not doubtable. Get samples from dealers. All are free. If you use your own art it will be better way too.
Read all posts here before you open your wallet.
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Old January 20th, 2014 Jan 20, 2014 4:09:30 PM -   #28 (permalink)
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Default Re: EPSON SC F2000 dtg real price not 20k

Quote:
Originally Posted by mamamarieke
Hi!

I am about to order a direct t-shirt printer but like to read reviews from people with experience. I like the epson but it is new and it hasn't proved itself yet (am I wrong?). I like the quality of Brother but think the ink and accessories are quite expensive. I also like the Freejet because if I am informed well it is using a printer head and other elements of Epson.

Somebody who can give me advice?

Marieke


Peter had some very good points on comparing different printer brands. i also just got back from the ISS Long Beach show where we were displaying the Epson and the Veloci-Jet Printers. (Wow - what a weather change - 80 degrees in Long Beach and come back to New Jersey to a snow storm tomorrow)

It is a very good idea to send your own artwork to each printer seller and have them send you a sample of a printed shirt from their machine. Using your own artwork allows to to more accurately gauge the different print qualities you get from each seller. It's even a good idea to get sample prints from each Epson F2000 dealer as there are differences in the RIP's each is offering. Compare maximum print area sizes, cost of consumables, warranty specifics. Also find out what if any additional services are available such as onsite training and later support services.

_
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Old January 20th, 2014 Jan 20, 2014 5:07:33 PM -   #29 (permalink)
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Default Re: EPSON SC F2000 dtg real price not 20k

Quote:
Originally Posted by equipmentzone
Also find out what if any additional services are available such as onsite training and later support services.
Harry, you are so funny. You say this because you offer this at show. LOL. I took picture.
This stands for you will scarify travel expense from Profit. Same time you did cut all other dealer's too. Lol.
Well all Dealers must follow. LOL. I am in. What else can we throw in?
Does this necessary? Probably thre are many different views.
Better benefit should be offered to end user than at on site training. Many none sense but hey if that's the game you call then we have o play.
I guess all dealers has to offer same as you do. Well~. I am in and will top you, lol. and others will follow.
I will offer as "if buyer wants to, because it is so easy as 123 abc." I rather give real worth benefit than no weigh benefit.
Drop ship fom Epson: Free shipping.(waiting, maybe no inventory)
Ship from dealer: free shipping?(no waiting, more stock more sell)
B said at show to me "Harry will be a starter". He was right.
Well, Harry you did many email forwarding these days too. Lol.
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Last edited by allamerican; January 20th, 2014 at 05:12 PM..
 
Old January 20th, 2014 Jan 20, 2014 5:37:24 PM -   #30 (permalink)
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Default Re: EPSON SC F2000 dtg real price not 20k

Quote:
Originally Posted by allamerican
Harry, you are so funny. You say this because you offer this at show. LOL. I took picture.
This stands for you will scarify travel expense from Profit. Same time you did cut all other dealer's too. Lol.
Well all Dealers must follow. LOL. I am in. What else can we throw in?
Does this necessary? Probably thre are many different views.
Better benefit should be offered to end user than at on site training. Many none sense but hey if that's the game you call then we have o play.
I guess all dealers has to offer same as you do. Well~. I am in and will top you, lol. and others will follow.
I will offer as "if buyer wants to, because it is so easy as 123 abc." I rather give real worth benefit than no weigh benefit.
Drop ship fom Epson: Free shipping.(waiting, maybe no inventory)
Ship from dealer: free shipping?(no waiting, more stock more sell)
B said at show to me "Harry will be a starter". He was right.
Well, Harry you did many email forwarding these days too. Lol.
Cheers! Beers are on me always.
Please know that in my dealings with Harry and Terry at EZ they had nothing but kind words to say about AA and yourself (in fact all the other dealers/manufactures). That says a lot for a competitor. EZ offered to come to my location to set up. Easy decision when there will be 3 of us here to train. I was at LB this weekend. Spent most of my time with Larry at Epson. He is the product manager so the buck stops there imho. Must of impressed him because I showed him a couple of new things and he gave me his direct line to stay in contact. Good things to come for sure..... Really was impressed with Cadlink RIP.
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