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Epson DTG printer hits the market and what does it mean for Epson based printers?

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Old August 25th, 2013 Aug 25, 2013 10:20:15 AM -   #31 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson DTG printer hits the market and what does it mean for Epson based printers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedigiguy
There is always something new just around the corner. If you wait you will have the latest for today but not for the next.
As same as wait for iPhone10. Good point.
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Old August 25th, 2013 Aug 25, 2013 10:25:07 AM -   #32 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson DTG printer hits the market and what does it mean for Epson based printers?

thanks, I just got start up business jitters, I still think I selected the best printer just needed reassurance I guess.
 
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Old August 25th, 2013 Aug 25, 2013 10:29:23 AM -   #33 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson DTG printer hits the market and what does it mean for Epson based printers?

So you bought a Brother G3 then? :-)

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Old August 25th, 2013 Aug 25, 2013 10:33:33 AM -   #34 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson DTG printer hits the market and what does it mean for Epson based printers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoBud
thanks, I just got start up business jitters, I still think I selected the best printer just needed reassurance I guess.
I am 99% sure your choice was NeoFlex because i can tell by your ID. If I am wrong I will buy you barrel of beers LOL.
Welcome to NeoFamily. Your success is our Success.
Epson can not love you as much as NeoFamily will.
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Last edited by allamerican; August 25th, 2013 at 10:43 AM..
 
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Old August 25th, 2013 Aug 25, 2013 11:23:42 AM -   #35 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson DTG printer hits the market and what does it mean for Epson based printers?

I think that Peter is right that this Printer will aim at the middle segment with anajet and brother as main competitors. Of course if its the same technology as everyone has now, not something fancy like pretreatless white ink.

I belive that we will see nothing extraordinary. If so this printer will not be for the entry level market because the operation will still be to dificult fot the average user and also the cost of the service would be tremendous for epson (remember that only few current epson services centers carry out their sublimation and solvent printer).

My bet is this:

1. Price range 15 - 25k $
2. The ink will be thier own manufacturing (thats pretty confirmed right now).
3. Ink cartridges, sealed as always without ink circulation
4. a2 print size

The questions is latter:

1) the printhead - dx5 ot the new 10 channel one. In my understanding the problem with 4900 converting to dtg was not the viscosity level of ink for the printhead but extreamly small maximum dot size that 4900 can generate. I was told that the wide format Espon solvent printer can generate now 24 picoliter dot, which in my understanding will be enugh for the number on nozzles that this printhead has to be able to generate sufficient white undebrase. So it's very likely that we will se the new 10 channel printhead in this printer.

2) number of heads. We already see dual head configuration in Epson solvent printers. If the DTG was was in double printhead configuration I think it could top and even beat the Ricoh print speed. Also one pass in line printing wouldnot be a problem than.

Also this printer was showed at FESPA at closed presentation. I wonder If any one will have some balls to share something. The official launch is so close so I think there is no need to wory about the non disclosure documents
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Old August 25th, 2013 Aug 25, 2013 12:12:18 PM -   #36 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson DTG printer hits the market and what does it mean for Epson based printers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smalzstein
In my understanding the problem with 4900 converting to dtg was not the viscosity level of ink for the printhead but extreamly small maximum dot size that 4900 can generate.
Smaller dot size = less viscous ink required for printing..... The Brother and Kornit printers use much bigger dot sizes, ergo they use much more viscous ink.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smalzstein
2) number of heads. We already see dual head configuration in Epson solvent printers. If the DTG was was in double printhead configuration I think it could top and even beat the Ricoh print speed. Also one pass in line printing wouldnot be a problem than.
The problem with "one pass" printing is not the amount of ink we are currently able to lay down, but rather the dry time required for the white ink to properly "gel" before the CMYK layer is printed..... Unless they create a white ink that gels instantly, I doubt we'll be doing one-pass printing any time soon (regardless of number of heads in the unit).
 
Old August 25th, 2013 Aug 25, 2013 12:15:06 PM -   #37 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson DTG printer hits the market and what does it mean for Epson based printers?

neo for sure
 
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Old August 25th, 2013 Aug 25, 2013 12:20:44 PM -   #38 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson DTG printer hits the market and what does it mean for Epson based printers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoBud
just sent money for dtg printer, now I read this and wondering if I should have waited
I am assuming you are getting the NeoFlex and if you there is no need to wonder if you should wait. NeoFlex has been proven itself more than once.

Remember the Epson printer is making its debut no information on sales or when they will be available.
 
Old August 25th, 2013 Aug 25, 2013 12:39:10 PM -   #39 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson DTG printer hits the market and what does it mean for Epson based printers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Walker
Smaller dot size = less viscous ink required for printing..... The Brother and Kornit printers use much bigger dot sizes, ergo they use much more viscous ink.
Yes but in 4900 the dot size was restricted by firmware not printhead limitations. Same as 4880 versus R1900.


[QUOTE=The problem with "one pass" printing is not the amount of ink we are currently able to lay down, but rather the dry time required for the white ink to properly "gel" before the CMYK layer is printed..... Unless they create a white ink that gels instantly, I doubt we'll be doing one-pass printing any time soon (regardless of number of heads in the unit).[/QUOTE]

I thing that one inch distance between white printhead and color printhead would be suffiecient to get acceptable results (and the result would be pretreatment method.
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Old August 25th, 2013 Aug 25, 2013 12:49:33 PM -   #40 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson DTG printer hits the market and what does it mean for Epson based printers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smalzstein
I thing that one inch distance between white printhead and color printhead would be suffiecient to get acceptable results (and the result would be pretreatment method.
Which DTG machine are you currently using? I can tell you that I have several, and on some models we actually let the white ink layer SIT before the CMYK layer is laid down.... This is the only way to give the Dupont ink enough time to gel, IF you are pouring enough white on the shirt to achieve the quality that we expect in my shop. On the Neoflex, it takes 20 minutes for the CMYK layer to come across, which allows us to print without delay or additional gel time.

A one inch gap isn't gonna cut it in my opinion - at least, without a major shift in chemical formulation, it will never get the crisp vibrant quality that we are able to achieve with proper gel time.
 
Old August 25th, 2013 Aug 25, 2013 3:12:28 PM -   #41 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson DTG printer hits the market and what does it mean for Epson based printers?

DTG Kiosk 3, Viper, had texjet for some time, couple of DIY ones

I tested Resolute and one different off brand low TO2 ink and gelling is almost instant. But I always use pretreat machine so I can get just the right amount of ink to not to puddle and get propper coverage.

But your right it its hard to do one pass with Dupont. But this trade is about Epson and their going to have their own ink so there is a good posibility that it will work propperly with it.
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Old August 25th, 2013 Aug 25, 2013 3:22:06 PM -   #42 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson DTG printer hits the market and what does it mean for Epson based printers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Walker
Which DTG machine are you currently using? I can tell you that I have several, and on some models we actually let the white ink layer SIT before the CMYK layer is laid down.... This is the only way to give the Dupont ink enough time to gel, IF you are pouring enough white on the shirt to achieve the quality that we expect in my shop. On the Neoflex, it takes 20 minutes for the CMYK layer to come across, which allows us to print without delay or additional gel time.

A one inch gap isn't gonna cut it in my opinion - at least, without a major shift in chemical formulation, it will never get the crisp vibrant quality that we are able to achieve with proper gel time.
Did I read your post correctly? 0n your Neoflex you wait 20 minutes after printing white before you print CMYK?
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Old August 25th, 2013 Aug 25, 2013 3:31:06 PM -   #43 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson DTG printer hits the market and what does it mean for Epson based printers?

This thread is about
"Epson DTG printer hits the market and what does it mean for Epson based printers?"
IMHO is not much to Epson modifiers.
It will effects more to Brother, Anajet and extend to low end Kornit.
Epson is a Giant, Giant can over power decent size but too big to catch smalls. Smalls are fast and find opening well to survive. This is nature No one can against the nature. Storm break big trees but never grasses.
But does Brother and Anajet is decent size for Epson? This is interesting point.. Maybe Brother but I am not sure on Anajet. IMHO.
If they are and ready to accept challenge, I foresee big changes are the must to against Tsunami.
So? Should we change the Title? LOL. IMHO.
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Last edited by allamerican; August 25th, 2013 at 03:46 PM..
 
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Old August 25th, 2013 Aug 25, 2013 3:38:52 PM -   #44 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson DTG printer hits the market and what does it mean for Epson based printers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedigiguy
Did I read your post correctly? 0n your Neoflex you wait 20 minutes after printing white before you print CMYK?
Lol no - due to the fact that there are 3 shirts printed in a row (all 3 get a white layer, then the printer goes back for color layer), there is about 15-20 minutes from the time the white goes down on the first shirt to when the print head returns for the color layer.... This built in delay (even though the printer is still printing, each white layer has plenty of time to gel) allows us to get unmatched results in many cases.
 
Old August 25th, 2013 Aug 25, 2013 4:40:50 PM -   #45 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson DTG printer hits the market and what does it mean for Epson based printers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by allamerican
IMHO is not much to Epson modifiers.
It will effects more to Brother, Anajet and extend to low end Kornit.
Epson is a Giant, Giant can over power decent size but too big to catch smalls. Smalls are fast and find opening well to survive.
Peter,

Is this what you really think? How long did you spend at the 19th hole today?

If Epson has known for more than a year now they are going to release a dtg printer, do you think all the games / restrictions / price increases they have been playing with getting replacement parts is a totally unrelated subject?

In my opinion, Epson is looking at anything under $50,000 as competition. For years, they have had to deal with their equipment / parts being used for dye sublimation and dtg printing. In many cases, the users have been blaming their equipment for the printing problems. If Epson has their own brand of ink (which is what most of the post above are saying), why would they not want to try and eliminate any competitor that could possibly take away ink sales - which is where the money is at? Especially when the "smaller" competitors for the most part are using their R&D / technology. Not to mention that Epson has to compete against those dtg manufacturers that are using other print heads / components that are not Epson technology. I expect some of the "smalls" to either close shop or join the Epson team. In either case, the market is likely to consolidate.

Smalzstein, I don't think anyone that has a signed NDA is going to openly release information about the new printer. If they got an NDA, they are probably want to be a distributor and don't want to do anything to jeopardize that. Not to mention that Epson probably has a team of lawyers at their disposal.

The next several weeks will be very interesting as more information comes out about the printer.

Mark
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