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-   -   What are your thoughts on FOREVER Subli-Light (first hand experience only) (https://www.t-shirtforums.com/dye-sublimation/t883183.html)

Brandonttech January 17th, 2020 10:27 AM

What are your thoughts on FOREVER Subli-Light (first hand experience only)
 
I LOVE the idea of sublimating onto cotton. Mainly because i want to make onesies and cotton is the most breathable fabric for babies. BUT its hard finding reviews of FOREVER Subli-Light with this being such a new thing. Also i can tell there are A Lot of hate/biases against cotton sublimation. I'm wondering if people just haven't been trying the new technology and still have old opinions, or if cotton sublimation is fine only for hobbies and not for business purposes.

PedalJustPedal January 17th, 2020 11:00 AM

Re: What are your thoughts on FOREVER Subli-Light (first hand experience only)
 
So you think cotton is more breathable for babies? There is your first mistake.
Second maybe there is a reason there are not reviews for Forever or any of the other so called solutions to dye sub on cotton. You would be lightyears ahead using Vapors Onesies.

Brandonttech January 17th, 2020 11:14 AM

Re: What are your thoughts on FOREVER Subli-Light (first hand experience only)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PedalJustPedal (Post 4457697)
So you think cotton is more breathable for babies? There is your first mistake.
Second maybe there is a reason there are not reviews for Forever or any of the other so called solutions to dye sub on cotton. You would be lightyears ahead using Vapors Onesies.


What would you say is more breathable? Also I googled vapors onesies and im not 100% sure what you meant by your last comment. Is it a way to make a shirt or a website? I found both haha.

PedalJustPedal January 17th, 2020 11:21 AM

Re: What are your thoughts on FOREVER Subli-Light (first hand experience only)
 
Cotton is not breathable. There is a reason virtually every sports attire is NOT cotton. Now even sheets, pillowcases etc are moving off of cotton. Vapor Apparel is probably the top dye sub apparel manufacturer and have onesies.

sublial January 17th, 2020 12:23 PM

Re: What are your thoughts on FOREVER Subli-Light (first hand experience only)
 
The reason you aren,t seeing cotton as much is because it is less costly to make shirts with plastic recycled soda bottles. And who ever said polyester is more breathable? The New athletic manufacturers conning the gullable customers. You couldn,t give polyester apparel away years ago. Why because it is to hot to wear.
AL

PedalJustPedal January 17th, 2020 01:36 PM

Re: What are your thoughts on FOREVER Subli-Light (first hand experience only)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sublial (Post 4457717)
The reason you aren,t seeing cotton as much is because it is less costly to make shirts with plastic recycled soda bottles. And who ever said polyester is more breathable? The New athletic manufacturers conning the gullable customers. You couldn,t give polyester apparel away years ago. Why because it is to hot to wear.
AL

How long have you been in this business as your information is so incorrect it makes one wonder. First, cotton shirts are much much less expensive then a moisture wicking poly shirt. Add to that if you want to be green and get a poly shirt made from recycled plastic it will cost you even more. New athletic manufacturers? 95% of all sports apparel is poly now. Why? Because it breathes. You truly are void of facts and stating such does nothing but misinform new people.

WalkingZombie January 22nd, 2020 12:04 PM

Re: What are your thoughts on FOREVER Subli-Light (first hand experience only)
 
I regret not reading this post when it was first posted, but you noted "first hand experience only", so I stayed away LOL.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandonttech (Post 4457687)
I LOVE the idea of sublimating onto cotton. Mainly because i want to make onesies and cotton is the most breathable fabric for babies. BUT its hard finding reviews of FOREVER Subli-Light with this being such a new thing. Also i can tell there are A Lot of hate/biases against cotton sublimation. I'm wondering if people just haven't been trying the new technology and still have old opinions, or if cotton sublimation is fine only for hobbies and not for business purposes.

There's nothing wrong with these dyesub-to-cotton transfers. People just get upset when others believe it's true sublimation when it's not. It's the same concept as using Heat Transfers for cotton, except the dyesub-to-cotton transfers sublimate the inks to the transfer fibers and then the transfer adheres to the cotton, whereas, Heat Transfers use pigment inks (recommended) to dye the transfer fibers and then the transfer adheres to the cotton.

The only difference is the dyesub inks permanently adhere to the transfer's fibers, whereas, the pigment ink does not, and over time pigment transfers will fade. Well, another difference is most Heat Transfers need to be trimmed and the light dyesub-to-cotton transfers don't.

But they BOTH use a transfer that adheres to the cotton. Whether one lasts longer than the other (long term), is still in the air. Depends how the garments are washed. Although, I use JetPro Soft Stretch with pigments inks and have created many designs for my wife's shirts and still look great, well after a year.

Sidenote: Most of these dyesub-to-cotton transfers (that I've read), recommend using Vector art only; not Raster. Dyesub-to-cotton transfers have trouble transferring raster gradients or lighter color areas. They need full-toned colors. Regular Heat Transfers can use Vector and/or Raster art and transfer with no problem.

As far as your concern for the breathability for babies, cotton is the best choice. MOST babies don't drown in sweat, so they don't need polyester to wick sweat away. And if a baby was to sweat in a polyester onesie, I bet they'll be cold because MOST polyester has a tight knit, which will keep the sweat close to its body. It's not like they are out running around where the sweat can wick out and dry fast. LOL

Quote:

Originally Posted by PedalJustPedal (Post 4457697)
So you think cotton is more breathable for babies? There is your first mistake.
Second maybe there is a reason there are not reviews for Forever or any of the other so called solutions to dye sub on cotton. You would be lightyears ahead using Vapors Onesies.

First off, MOST cotton is more breathable than polyester. Depends on the knit used, but cotton has a more open knit than almost ANY polyester.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PedalJustPedal (Post 4457703)
Cotton is not breathable. There is a reason virtually every sports attire is NOT cotton. Now even sheets, pillowcases etc are moving off of cotton. Vapor Apparel is probably the top dye sub apparel manufacturer and have onesies.

Secondly, again, cotton IS breathable. The reason sports teams moved to polyester jerseys is because they stretch helluva lot more than cotton and cotton/poly jerseys, they are lighter in weight and they wick the sweat away from the body to the outside, therefore, dries faster. Cotton on the other hand, is heavier and when you sweat, it absorbs the sweat instead of wicking it out, and dries a lot slower and makes the jersey heavier. Believe me, I still have original baseball jerseys that were 100% cotton and when I used to sweat, woowee it was harder to move, got hotter and felt heavier. I also have these newer polyester authentic jerseys, and they are awesome. The only negative is they can freaking snag and rip easy. The older jerseys started to transition to open holes in the cotton/poly, and now they are like an open-knit mesh polyester to help with breathability.

I believe the reason people think they are more breathable than cotton, is because when you sweat, it keeps you cool, so you think air is flowing through the garment when in fact it's your sweat touching the skin. LOL

LancerFlorida January 22nd, 2020 12:37 PM

Re: What are your thoughts on FOREVER Subli-Light (first hand experience only)
 
" i can tell there are A Lot of hate/biases against cotton sublimation"
As Walking Zombie explained, if we can't stay true to the lexicon or dictionary, how can there be meaningful discussion of any kind?

Sublimation is the fusing of the ink into the polyester fiber...a permanate, last forever outcome.
AND...and this is real important. sublimation results in NO HAND.
Those who chatter about sublimating on cotton lose those attributes that make sublimation so incredibly desirable. How many characteristics of sublimation must be lost before it is recognized as an imposter?

My experieince with FOREVER SUBLI and other suggested solutions delivered a product that failed in every way to meet my expectations. So the 'hate' you suggest is the product of repeated disappointment, and the head-slap that follows, "I should have known better. IT IS NOT SUBLIMATION!"

Now YMMV and your expectations and needs much different than mine. So go buy some stuff, press it and wear it about and let us know of your experience.....before to impose the outcome on a helpless child.

And let me add point #3. Poly garments do not absorb sweat. So after wearing the tee for a year and running 25 miles a week, it does not smell like a lost sock in the locker room. Cotton will absorb and retain odor and as soon as the heat RH increases, you know you are wearing a stinky shirt.

WE all have different expectations. For you Faux Poly may be perfectly acceptable and honestly, I hope that it does and you can start providing product in which you can take pride. After all, infants are not going to put the garment to much of a test.

sublial January 22nd, 2020 01:43 PM

Re: What are your thoughts on FOREVER Subli-Light (first hand experience only)
 
PS, My White Sublimation Printers process to Dark cotton shirts is sublimated ONTO not into dark cotton shirts.
And Cotton is breathable more so then polyester.
I use to print 20 to 40,000 cotton shirts a month.
AL

PedalJustPedal January 22nd, 2020 02:23 PM

Re: What are your thoughts on FOREVER Subli-Light (first hand experience only)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sublial (Post 4458197)
PS, My White Sublimation Printers process to Dark cotton shirts is sublimated ONTO not into dark cotton shirts.
And Cotton is breathable more so then polyester.
I use to print 20 to 40,000 cotton shirts a month.
AL

key word is "use". Tell me how breathable a cotton shirt is soaked in sweat?

splathead January 22nd, 2020 06:56 PM

Re: What are your thoughts on FOREVER Subli-Light (first hand experience only)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PedalJustPedal (Post 4457731)
How long have you been in this business as your information is so incorrect it makes one wonder.


You just can't help yourself from insulting & talking down to people. Have you noticed you're the only one on the forum doing it? You need to stop.

Lnfortun January 22nd, 2020 06:58 PM

Re: What are your thoughts on FOREVER Subli-Light (first hand experience only)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by WalkingZombie (Post 4458185)
I regret not reading this post when it was first posted, but you noted "first hand experience only", so I stayed away LOL.



There's nothing wrong with these dyesub-to-cotton transfers. People just get upset when others believe it's true sublimation when it's not. It's the same concept as using Heat Transfers for cotton, except the dyesub-to-cotton transfers sublimate the inks to the transfer fibers and then the transfer adheres to the cotton, whereas, Heat Transfers use pigment inks (recommended) to dye the transfer fibers and then the transfer adheres to the cotton.

The only difference is the dyesub inks permanently adhere to the transfer's fibers, whereas, the pigment ink does not, and over time pigment transfers will fade. Well, another difference is most Heat Transfers need to be trimmed and the light dyesub-to-cotton transfers don't.

But they BOTH use a transfer that adheres to the cotton. Whether one lasts longer than the other (long term), is still in the air. Depends how the garments are washed. Although, I use JetPro Soft Stretch with pigments inks and have created many designs for my wife's shirts and still look great, well after a year.

Sidenote: Most of these dyesub-to-cotton transfers (that I've read), recommend using Vector art only; not Raster. Dyesub-to-cotton transfers have trouble transferring raster gradients or lighter color areas. They need full-toned colors. Regular Heat Transfers can use Vector and/or Raster art and transfer with no problem.

As far as your concern for the breathability for babies, cotton is the best choice. MOST babies don't drown in sweat, so they don't need polyester to wick sweat away. And if a baby was to sweat in a polyester onesie, I bet they'll be cold because MOST polyester has a tight knit, which will keep the sweat close to its body. It's not like they are out running around where the sweat can wick out and dry fast. LOL



First off, MOST cotton is more breathable than polyester. Depends on the knit used, but cotton has a more open knit than almost ANY polyester.



Secondly, again, cotton IS breathable. The reason sports teams moved to polyester jerseys is because they stretch helluva lot more than cotton and cotton/poly jerseys, they are lighter in weight and they wick the sweat away from the body to the outside, therefore, dries faster. Cotton on the other hand, is heavier and when you sweat, it absorbs the sweat instead of wicking it out, and dries a lot slower and makes the jersey heavier. Believe me, I still have original baseball jerseys that were 100% cotton and when I used to sweat, woowee it was harder to move, got hotter and felt heavier. I also have these newer polyester authentic jerseys, and they are awesome. The only negative is they can freaking snag and rip easy. The older jerseys started to transition to open holes in the cotton/poly, and now they are like an open-knit mesh polyester to help with breathability.

I believe the reason people think they are more breathable than cotton, is because when you sweat, it keeps you cool, so you think air is flowing through the garment when in fact it's your sweat touching the skin. LOL

Well said. So true:).

PedalJustPedal January 23rd, 2020 07:00 AM

Re: What are your thoughts on FOREVER Subli-Light (first hand experience only)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by splathead (Post 4458209)
You just can't help yourself from insulting & talking down to people. Have you noticed you're the only one on the forum doing it? You need to stop.

Simply stated facts and not insulting at all. When you state poly is so much cheaper then cotton shirts because they are made from recycled plastic, etc it simply is not factual. A forum should be for people with experience on the topic to help educate others and themselves. When people post information that is simply not accurate it does nothing but misinform new people. There is so misinformation that is on the dye sub forum now basically due to the majority of truly experienced dye sub'ers leaving.

TABOB January 23rd, 2020 08:39 AM

Re: What are your thoughts on FOREVER Subli-Light (first hand experience only)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PedalJustPedal (Post 4458245)
Simply stated facts

People want cotton... That's the actual fact!
This is also why cotton tees are cheaper than polyester (economy of scale).

PedalJustPedal January 24th, 2020 08:42 AM

Re: What are your thoughts on FOREVER Subli-Light (first hand experience only)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TABOB (Post 4458249)
People want cotton... That's the actual fact!
This is also why cotton tees are cheaper than polyester (economy of scale).

Maybe in your market but we have never been asked for cotton.


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