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Epson WF7110 - Need CIS system or Cartridges that work reliably (or an alternative comparable system)!

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Old May 26th, 2017 May 26, 2017 2:55:13 PM -   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson WF7110 - Need CIS system or Cartridges that work reliably (or an alternative comparable system)!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgparrish
Dude, I have 2 13 x 19 printers and many carts, which I rotate in and out. Your math is wacko , and SG inks are 5x as expensive.

I sell mostly tiles and larger items, I make more than 4 bucks an item or I wouldn't be doing this AND I sell wholesale, hence the volume.

And your wide format reasoning doesn't fit me. I do what I do with sub $200 printers, WHY should I use a wide format printer that cost >$5K. I run 2 printers at a time real often.

I see why you struggle with your printers, you don't have a clue about economics or this business.
We get $20 for a pre-printed canvas (retail). Though the classes are $50 and includes the pre-printed canvas. The canvas costs about a little over a buck and the transfer paper about a buck and then a little for the ink, so the markup is good. The big advantage of the large format printer is speed. I print them two up (24" media) and it spits them right out. I usually do batches of 20 to 30 and this is not my day job, so I have to squeeze it into my schedule. I can do 20 in about an hour, including pressing and sizing and framing the photos.
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Old May 26th, 2017 May 26, 2017 2:58:52 PM -   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson WF7110 - Need CIS system or Cartridges that work reliably (or an alternative comparable system)!

SG 7100DN SubliJet-R HC Ink Cartridge - Yellow

SG ink on comparable Ricoh = $131.00 / 60 mL = 2.183333333333333

https://www.cobraink.com/store/#!/4-...egory=21215012

Cobra inks 8 OZs (236.58 mL) $58.00 / 236 mL = $0.245 per mL

Now if I had to buy SG @ 131 per color x 4 = $524 a month then one can see how easy I save at least $300 a month not having to buy their ripoff carts. I use more than 60 mL per color a month
 
Old May 26th, 2017 May 26, 2017 3:01:15 PM -   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson WF7110 - Need CIS system or Cartridges that work reliably (or an alternative comparable system)!

Quote:
Originally Posted by john221us
We get $20 for a pre-printed canvas (retail). Though the classes are $50 and includes the pre-printed canvas. The canvas costs about a little over a buck and the transfer paper about a buck and then a little for the ink, so the markup is good. The big advantage of the large format printer is speed. I print them two up (24" media) and it spits them right out. I usually do batches of 20 to 30 and this is not my day job, so I have to squeeze it into my schedule. I can do 20 in about an hour, including pressing and sizing and framing the photos.
If I had the demand for sublimation items larger than 13 x 19 I would use a different printer.

I have a 4880 that is 17 inches wide but I keep pigments in it.
 
 
Old May 26th, 2017 May 26, 2017 3:04:58 PM -   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson WF7110 - Need CIS system or Cartridges that work reliably (or an alternative comparable system)!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgparrish
SG 7100DN SubliJet-R HC Ink Cartridge - Yellow

SG ink on comparable Ricoh = $131.00 / 60 mL = 2.183333333333333

https://www.cobraink.com/store/#!/4-...egory=21215012

Cobra inks 8 OZs (236.58 mL) $58.00 / 236 mL = $0.245 per mL

Now if I had to buy SG @ 131 per color x 4 = $524 a month then one can see how easy I save at least $300 a month not having to buy their ripoff carts. I use more than 60 mL per color a month
Actually I hadn't looked at SG prices for the Ricoh in a while, it's substantially more than 5X
 
Old May 26th, 2017 May 26, 2017 3:12:45 PM -   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson WF7110 - Need CIS system or Cartridges that work reliably (or an alternative comparable system)!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgparrish
If I had the demand for sublimation items larger than 13 x 19 I would use a different printer.

I have a 4880 that is 17 inches wide but I keep pigments in it.
Yeah, not sublimation. Like I mentioned before, I use the Epson WF-7610 for that (mostly mugs once or twice a week). We don't make a lot on the mugs. We sell logo mugs for $6 and custom mugs for $12. The logo mugs are good advertising, though and we give one away to groups of 10 or more (a picture of the group on the mug with an inscription and our logo on the other side) and they can buy more for $6 each. It is pretty low volume though. Maybe 12 mugs a week. This is all supplemental stuff for an art studio/wine bar/restaurant.
 
Old May 26th, 2017 May 26, 2017 3:22:35 PM -   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson WF7110 - Need CIS system or Cartridges that work reliably (or an alternative comparable system)!

Quote:
Originally Posted by api
Just thinking:

  • If you can save $300/month using Cobra ink, you have to spend at least $250/month on Cobra ink (or $550/month SC) because SC ink is appr. 2.2 times as expensive as Cobra.
  • $250/month of Cobra ink is appr. 1.2 liter/month = 1200 ml/month.
  • If one image needs e.g. 1 ml (1 cc) of ink, you have to print 1200 images/month.
  • If you have 4 refillable cartridges in your EPSON printer, you have 3 standard (4 ml) and 1 XL (10 ml) cartridge. That is 22 ml ink altogether.
  • If you have to print 1200 ml ink per month, you have to refill your cartridges at least 1200/22=54 times/month.
  • If you sell 1200 images/month for e.g.: $4 profit/image, you make more than $4.8K/month = $57.6K/year.
  • With the $300/month saving on ink, you save $3600/year.
For this saving, you are using a desktop EPSON printer and refilling your cartridges 54 times/month...

Am I misunderstanding something?

With a wide format printer, you would have 700 ml or 1000 ml cartridges, that is 2.8-4 liter/printer, so you would have to touch the cartridges max. 4 times/year (!). You could use cheaper roll paper, you could have built in paper cutter, you could print larger images than 13"x19", etc.. For less than 10% of your 1-year profit, you could have the wide format printer and - if you'd still want to save extra on ink - you could still start messing with refillable cartridges and using other than SC ink.

I am not selling wide format printers!

Just thinking...
Here is where your logic is flawed.

Why would I have to buy an equivalent dollar amount of Cobra inks versus Sawgrass inks to save over $300 a month? And then produce that amount of product as you seem to think I would need to do.

Please "splain" that to me.

... just thinking
 
Old May 26th, 2017 May 26, 2017 3:46:30 PM -   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson WF7110 - Need CIS system or Cartridges that work reliably (or an alternative comparable system)!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgparrish
Dude, I have 2 13 x 19 printers and many carts, which I rotate in and out. Your math is wacko , and SG desktop inks are 5x as expensive.

...
First of all, not "Dude", you can call me "api". I am really surprised how aggressive you became...

It is very rare, but also your answer now is way off:

  • Cobra ink - $0.25/ml (8 o.z, for $58)
  • Sawgrass - $0.47/ml (700 ml SubliJet-E for $330)

0.47/0.25=1.88 (not even 2.2 what I wrote, and definitely not 5x)

I really don't know what happened with you.
Have a nice weekend...
 
Old May 26th, 2017 May 26, 2017 4:08:34 PM -   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson WF7110 - Need CIS system or Cartridges that work reliably (or an alternative comparable system)!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgparrish
Here is where your logic is flawed.

Why would I have to buy an equivalent dollar amount of Cobra inks versus Sawgrass inks to save over $300 a month? And then produce that amount of product as you seem to think I would need to do.

Please "splain" that to me.

... just thinking
I didn't want to answer to you anymore in this topic, but I really appreciate your general contribution on this forum, so I answer one last time.

My logic was this. If you REALLY want to save at least $300, you need some $ figures to work with: SG price vs. Cobra price for example.

If you are not buying Cobra ink for at least $250 (which would have been 2.2 x $250=$550 if you bought the same amount of ink from SG) you cannot REALLY save $300. The difference between $550 and $250 is $300 so you can say:

"SG would have been $550, Cobra was $250 so I saved $300."

NOW! Have a nice weekend...

Last edited by api; May 26th, 2017 at 04:11 PM.. Reason: Typo: SC=SG
 
Old May 26th, 2017 May 26, 2017 4:36:48 PM -   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson WF7110 - Need CIS system or Cartridges that work reliably (or an alternative comparable system)!

After all of my research and all of the frustrated and disappointed Epson users I've read about, I bit the bullet and just ordered a SG400 from Conde. I hate to pay so much but I need a product that works consistently for me. I'm really sad about it, because I wanted a large format for the same price range, but I am done messing around with stuff that doesn't work right. Crossing my fingers that SG lives up to their relatively good image.
 
Old May 26th, 2017 May 26, 2017 5:34:56 PM -   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson WF7110 - Need CIS system or Cartridges that work reliably (or an alternative comparable system)!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brieja
After all of my research and all of the frustrated and disappointed Epson users I've read about, I bit the bullet and just ordered a SG400 from Conde. I hate to pay so much but I need a product that works consistently for me. I'm really sad about it, because I wanted a large format for the same price range, but I am done messing around with stuff that doesn't work right. Crossing my fingers that SG lives up to their relatively good image.
I hear you, but having been a user of Epson for over 16 years I can say that a lot of what I read and issues people have and had were in my opinion (but truthfully, not all of them) were actually what we old timers call "operator head space" Unpack it plug it in, shove the carts in and turn it on...instructions? Naw...it's just a printer. Here, I'll show you. . . . 20 minutes later they are on a forum like this bashing the product, frustrated and disappointed like you say and can't figure out why it's not operating the way they "thought" it should after all we are the "plug and play" generation. In the mean time they try things that make matters worse all while the instructions sit quietly in the box....ignored. Fact of the matter, some machines though very few are defective....and the problem can usually be solved easily enough but the operator is either new to this equipment and process, got in a hurry being excited or whatever and didn't read or follow the instructions or proper guidelines and took shortcuts. Operator Head Space is a distant cousin of Murphy. . . . . If something can go wrong .....it will.
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Old May 26th, 2017 May 26, 2017 5:53:57 PM -   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson WF7110 - Need CIS system or Cartridges that work reliably (or an alternative comparable system)!

It really comes down to a simple fact - CIS are horrible. 90% of the people will never get them to perform properly. It does not matter the brand on who makes it they just suck for the vast majority of users that have tried one.
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Old May 27th, 2017 May 27, 2017 8:09:09 AM -   #27 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson WF7110 - Need CIS system or Cartridges that work reliably (or an alternative comparable system)!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Signature Series
It really comes down to a simple fact - CIS are horrible. 90% of the people will never get them to perform properly. It does not matter the brand on who makes it they just suck for the vast majority of users that have tried one.
In my opinion, the real issue is the "war" between EPSON and the sublimation ink user. EPSON sells the printer for peanuts, hoping that they will make money on the EPSON ink. The "clever" customer however takes advantage of the low price of the printer and uses cheap, non-EPSON sublimation ink. EPSON fights back!

The result: "Ink cartridge is not recognized", "Warranty is voided", etc.

Some people are lucky with the "work around" others are not. The bottom line: The "war" between the printer manufacturer and the customer makes the relationship difficult and "unhealthy". Win-win would be much better but - of course - more expensive.

Nonetheless, serious business models cannot afford this endless fight and this unreliability. Those are the folks, who write this frustrated "enough is enough" type of posts.

I was lucky enough changing my mindset, and upgraded to a problem-free system. I practically jumped out from a 15 years old Yugo to a new BMW more than a year ago. No issues since then and the extra investment has been returned multiple times.

Of course, I understand the fact that some business models need to take advantage of the cheap printer with cheap ink, and if they are also lucky in the fight with EPSON, they made a really good deal. Unfortunately however, the intentionally placed software "landmines" (by EPSON) in the printer's firmware, makes the whole printing process unreliable. Some people can live with that, others just cannot...
 
Old May 27th, 2017 May 27, 2017 9:50:59 AM -   #28 (permalink)
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Again, you don't know these printers. You cannot get Epson branded sublimation ink for a desktop printer, only large format Epson and specific models. Also, yes Epson does try and thwart the after market, but they have been doing this now for 2 decades. The "cart not recognized" is due to a defective chip or a bad pin contact. The firmware does give you a " non- genuine" warning, but will allow you to print with a couple of button presses. I know this because I actually use these desktop printers.
 
Old May 27th, 2017 May 27, 2017 9:59:58 AM -   #29 (permalink)
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My larger point is that there is no war or struggle with the firmware, it gives us a non- genuine warning then we proceed. That is unless the after market chip is defective. The only thing one has to concerned with is doing a firmware upgrade after installing the printer. Then sometimes this causes issues. So doing a firmware upgrade should be avoided.
 
Old May 27th, 2017 May 27, 2017 12:52:47 PM -   #30 (permalink)
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Default Re: Epson WF7110 - Need CIS system or Cartridges that work reliably (or an alternative comparable system)!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgparrish
My larger point is that there is no war or struggle with the firmware, it gives us a non- genuine warning then we proceed. That is unless the after market chip is defective. The only thing one has to concerned with is doing a firmware upgrade after installing the printer. Then sometimes this causes issues. So doing a firmware upgrade should be avoided.
1.) Do you see the total contradiction between the green and the red sentences?

2.) Why should somebody "avoid the firmware update" if there is "no struggle with the firmware"? (For lots of people the EPSON firmware update is set to automatic and just happens for them.) Don't you suspect that a new firmware - what you have to avoid at all costs - is the very reason of the "cart not recognized" error messages, and it is also the part of the "'war" between EPSON and its customers?

3.) How can you be sure that the "cartridge not recognized" message is caused by a wrong contact or a defective chip only? If this would be the case, Richard, from Cobra, could simply send a few new cartridges (with good, tested chips) and the problem would be solved forever. I actually did purchase a few sets of extra cartridges for my WF1100 and WF7610 from him - hoping that the new chips will work - but they didn't. After that, Richard couldn't help at all...

4.) Why do you mix in your post the "non-genuine" warning message with the "cartridge not recognized" message? Everybody knows that the previous can be solved with a few button presses, but the "cartridge not recognized" is an unsolved issue for lots of customers, and even for Cobra.

5.) I have no proof, and I don't care anymore, but it is very logical, that the newer firmware comes with a newer, more sophisticated chip authentication algorithm, and the existing, old, non-genuine aftermarket chips cannot always "deceive" it. That's why people have so many problems with this EPSON desktop sublimation "work around". It's time to acknowledge this possibility and solving it, instead of denying it to the "last ditch"...
 






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