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Discuss the various aspects of dye sublimation printing: printer selection, press time, durability, new technologies, etc.



Dye Sub Newbie Needs Some Input from Experience

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Old November 12th, 2015 Nov 12, 2015 7:44:09 PM -   #1 (permalink)
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Question Dye Sub Newbie Needs Some Input from Experience

Before deciding to post, I have been doing A LOT of reading, but would like some feedback, and maybe some tips from those experience "dye subbers" out there... A little about me (quickly) -- I have been using inkjet transfers (primarily JPSS) since it first came out in 2006 or 2007, and had a hobby/micro biz mainly doing custom photo shirts. I was out of "the biz" for quite a few years, and have come back within the past year. I recently purchased a Cameo cutter and have been doing HTV and outdoor vinyl, and now I would like to learn more about dye sub. I have always appreciated the quality of dye sub, and the array of substrates is very exciting!

I would like to purchase a sub printer, and have decided to buy through Cobra Ink. I have an Epson WF3520 with CIS that I purchased a year and a half ago, and I love it. It has been pretty trouble-free. I would like the simplicity of a CIS in a dye sub printer, but I also understand that the ink expires? I also understand that I would need to print often to avoid clogs -- but how often? Daily? Weekly? What has other people's experience been with Cobra Ink Dye Sub CIS? Any specific issue?

The alternative is refillable carts. I admit that I did this once before with pigment ink (they were NOT Cobra Ink refillable carts though), and I hated it. This option would afford me the ability to switch back and forth, between sub and pigment, with just a head-cleaning, which is great -- but my last experience was dreadful because the printer was not recognizing the cart, and while I was trying to get that issue resolved, the refillable cart actually let loose in my printer, and completely destroyed it. I was so frustrated, I actually stopped doing shirts and walked away from it. Just too much frustration. So yes, refillable carts may give me more options, but I'm getting anxiety just thinking about it. Additionally, I did read a poster recently that said, "Due to the problems that Cobra has been having with refillable carts..." What problem is this specifically? I'd really like to know before making a decision.

The two wide-format printers I am considering, are the 7110 and 7610. I do not need another scanner, so the fact that the 7110 doesn't have that, doesn't bother me. What I do want, is a reliable printer that can handle sub. Which printer would YOU choose, if it were YOUR money buying it?

Also, with inkjet transfers and HTV, we mirror the image, and there is always one side of the paper that the design goes on -- is this true for dye sub transfer paper? Is there some type of pattern on the paper to let you know which is the back?

Any other tips you can give someone that is new to this genre?

Many thanks,
Melissa
 
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Old November 13th, 2015 Nov 13, 2015 8:27:14 AM -   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dye Sub Newbie Needs Some Input from Experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelicEndeavour
Before deciding to post, I have been doing A LOT of reading, but would like some feedback, and maybe some tips from those experience "dye subbers" out there... A little about me (quickly) -- I have been using inkjet transfers (primarily JPSS) since it first came out in 2006 or 2007, and had a hobby/micro biz mainly doing custom photo shirts. I was out of "the biz" for quite a few years, and have come back within the past year. I recently purchased a Cameo cutter and have been doing HTV and outdoor vinyl, and now I would like to learn more about dye sub. I have always appreciated the quality of dye sub, and the array of substrates is very exciting!

I would like to purchase a sub printer, and have decided to buy through Cobra Ink. I have an Epson WF3520 with CIS that I purchased a year and a half ago, and I love it. It has been pretty trouble-free. I would like the simplicity of a CIS in a dye sub printer, but I also understand that the ink expires?

All inks expire eventually, so it is true for sublimation. If you do CIS then it is good practice to keep a minimum fill at all times so you need a decent amount of inks. Without any orders you don't have a feel yet for your ink volume consumption. So a bit of a dilemma.

But starting out you should get a decent amount of blank substrates for samples to show and also for learning. You can easily use up a decent amount of ink prior to getting orders in your learning phase.

Unless you are getting expensive Sawgrass inks maybe the worse case is maybe you ending up throw away 50 bucks worth of unused inks, if that?


I also understand that I would need to print often to avoid clogs -- but how often? Daily? Weekly? What has other people's experience been with Cobra Ink Dye Sub CIS? Any specific issue?

The issue of printing frequently has a lot to do with the humidity in your environment. So that can also be seasonal. You also have the same concerns with pigment inks, you need to print fairly often.

I can't say how much more you have to print to keep the inks from clogging pigment vs. sublimation. Not sure I have seen anyone quantify that.

I'm in Phoenix and it is very dry here, the longest I go without printing is around 3 days.

The issue of inks clogging from the printer sitting idle is the same irregardless of whether you are using CIS or refillable carts. That is a function of inks drying up in the print head as the capping station isn't perfect and let's some air still get in to the print heads underneath while sitting idle.



The alternative is refillable carts. I admit that I did this once before with pigment ink (they were NOT Cobra Ink refillable carts though), and I hated it. This option would afford me the ability to switch back and forth, between sub and pigment, with just a head-cleaning, which is great -- but my last experience was dreadful because the printer was not recognizing the cart, and while I was trying to get that issue resolved, the refillable cart actually let loose in my printer, and completely destroyed it. I was so frustrated, I actually stopped doing shirts and walked away from it. Just too much frustration. So yes, refillable carts may give me more options, but I'm getting anxiety just thinking about it. Additionally, I did read a poster recently that said, "Due to the problems that Cobra has been having with refillable carts..." What problem is this specifically? I'd really like to know before making a decision.

The only issue I am aware of with Cobra's carts are the Code 252xl used in 3620,3640,7110,7610,7620. According to Cobra Epson has jacked with the firmware so those carts need to be reset a lot more often than previous carts do.

I use a WF7110 and unless someone else has a better cart then the only way to fix is to get a CIS with "always full" chips for those models. Or you have to live with frequent resetting.


The two wide-format printers I am considering, are the 7110 and 7610. I do not need another scanner, so the fact that the 7110 doesn't have that, doesn't bother me. What I do want, is a reliable printer that can handle sub. Which printer would YOU choose, if it were YOUR money buying it?

If you don't like carts in general, or don't like the issue with the 252xl carts, then the WF7110 with the CIS might be your best bet.

I think you need 4 oz. of inks to fill their CIS, but if you are worried about your ink expiring before you can use then your other choice at least starting out is carts, which you have concerns about.


Also, with inkjet transfers and HTV, we mirror the image, and there is always one side of the paper that the design goes on -- is this true for dye sub transfer paper? Is there some type of pattern on the paper to let you know which is the back?

Not all papers are marked with a pattern, in lieu of a printed pattern on the back of the sub paper, in most cases (not all) the sublimation print side is the "whitest" white. You can also wet your fingers and pinch the paper between your fingers, the side that sticks best is the print side.

Having said that I recommend you at first buy your paper from whoever you buy inks from (if you can) or use their recommendations. Do this starting out then you can try other papers later. It's important you get setup correctly in terms of color management.


Any other tips you can give someone that is new to this genre?

Another option you have is to just buy the printed transfers from someone like SKDave. He runs an ad at the left of the page (it rotates in and out).

Many thanks,
Melissa
Melissa, I made mark-ups in your text above.
 
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Old November 13th, 2015 Nov 13, 2015 11:26:15 AM -   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dye Sub Newbie Needs Some Input from Experience

Thanks so much, Mike -- I was hoping you'd answer! You really know your stuff!!

I had been hoping to use the carts so I could switch back and forth between pigment and dye sub -- I have been using pigment with JPSS and opaque for almost 10 years now, and only have a 8.5 x 11 printer -- there have been a few instances where I wished I had a wide-format printer... However, my previous experience with carts was sooo bad, and hearing that there are current issues with the new refillables from Cobra, I think I'll get the CIS. I had their CIS for their pigment ink, and it's been great. Occasionally, the ink will run back into their tanks, and I have to use the syringe to suck it back into the cartridge, but that's it... I think that printer was worth every penny I paid for it. I guess I will go the same route with the dye sub printer. Does Cobra have the "always full" chips in their CIS? I do remember getting an "ink low" once or twice on that printer, but not for a long time...

I did find several outsourced dye sub transfer websites -- that's where I got the samples from to press -- but my only problem with that is, turn-around time. People are inherently inpatient and want their stuff NOW. Additionally, having my own printer, I could then take my stuff to various holiday flea markets and such, and create cellphone cases and Christmas ornaments on demand. Everyone has pictures in their cellphones that they would like on some type of substrate! All I would need is laptop, printer, press and paper... I'm pretty sure my husband won't like transporting my 15 x 15 press, but oh well. Time to get the "fat boy" moving, LOL.

I took the advice I read on the Forum and bought the transfer paper through Conde - DyeTrans Multi-Purpose. It was the same paper as on the Cobra Ink site, just cheaper through Conde (everything was cheaper thru Conde, actually). I got it in 3 different sizes -- cellphone size for those flea market sales, 8.5 x 11 and 13 x 19. Another question: if I print something on 13 x 19, and then need to press it, say onto a fleece blanket that's 12 x 16, and my press is only 15 x 15, can I just leave a portion out of the press, and then without moving the transfer, press that area originally missed? Will that create ghosting to the first image pressed bc the transfer is not being removed?

I also bought from Conde all kinds of goodies: cellphone cases and inserts, Christmas ornaments (several different types), heat tape, the tape dispenser, Pro-Spray, sub wallet and checkbook cover, etc. About $250 worth of small items. I will be printing plenty, believe me. This array of sublimatable items makes my creative juices explode, LOL! I plan to do pillows, sports bras, you name it! And of course, I will posting plenty of pics on Facebook and will be opening an Etsy account. Maybe I won't have to worry about having ink expire, ha ha. How long is it good for, anyway?

At this time, I do not have the funds for a mug press, and my clamshell, 10 year old heat press, does not have any option for attachments, so I am considering purchasing mug wraps for both mugs and for dog bowls. I have a good outlet to the "dog world" so a lot of my items will be tailored to that market. I watched the Conde videos, and they say the wraps cannot be used in your home oven?? Why not?? Is the sublimation ink toxic? They do theirs in a Cuisinart toaster oven. So is that something I will need to buy too?? People want mugs. It's just that simple. I hadn't been planning to do that YET -- but I just showed a friend some of the things I will be able to sublimate, and she went right from the christmas ornaments, to asking if I can do mugs! Sigh. I guess I will be doing them sooner than I originally thought, ha ha...
 
 
Old November 13th, 2015 Nov 13, 2015 12:04:56 PM -   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dye Sub Newbie Needs Some Input from Experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelicEndeavour
Thanks so much, Mike -- I was hoping you'd answer! You really know your stuff!!

I had been hoping to use the carts so I could switch back and forth between pigment and dye sub -- I have been using pigment with JPSS and opaque for almost 10 years now, and only have a 8.5 x 11 printer -- there have been a few instances where I wished I had a wide-format printer... However, my previous experience with carts was sooo bad, and hearing that there are current issues with the new refillables from Cobra, I think I'll get the CIS. I had their CIS for their pigment ink, and it's been great. Occasionally, the ink will run back into their tanks, and I have to use the syringe to suck it back into the cartridge, but that's it... I think that printer was worth every penny I paid for it. I guess I will go the same route with the dye sub printer. Does Cobra have the "always full" chips in their CIS? I do remember getting an "ink low" once or twice on that printer, but not for a long time...

I'm not sure on the Cobra CIS as I don't use it, suggest to call or email Richard on that one, unless someone else here has the 7110.7610,7620 CIS from Cobra and can chime in.


I did find several outsourced dye sub transfer websites -- that's where I got the samples from to press -- but my only problem with that is, turn-around time. People are inherently inpatient and want their stuff NOW. Additionally, having my own printer, I could then take my stuff to various holiday flea markets and such, and create cellphone cases and Christmas ornaments on demand. Everyone has pictures in their cellphones that they would like on some type of substrate! All I would need is laptop, printer, press and paper... I'm pretty sure my husband won't like transporting my 15 x 15 press, but oh well. Time to get the "fat boy" moving, LOL.

Yes, I used to print in real time .... on demand live retail. Be careful with cell phone pictures, some may have low DPI, depends on the model and if the user knows what they are doing really.


I took the advice I read on the Forum and bought the transfer paper through Conde - DyeTrans Multi-Purpose. It was the same paper as on the Cobra Ink site, just cheaper through Conde (everything was cheaper thru Conde, actually). I got it in 3 different sizes -- cellphone size for those flea market sales, 8.5 x 11 and 13 x 19. Another question: if I print something on 13 x 19, and then need to press it, say onto a fleece blanket that's 12 x 16, and my press is only 15 x 15, can I just leave a portion out of the press, and then without moving the transfer, press that area originally missed? Will that create ghosting to the first image pressed bc the transfer is not being removed?

Doing an overlap transfer is not recommended. Hard to align and then if the previous sublimated area gets heated again (from the overlapping) then you can distort that otherwise OK image. It's possible but not practical, hard to repeat with success.

I also bought from Conde all kinds of goodies: cellphone cases and inserts, Christmas ornaments (several different types), heat tape, the tape dispenser, Pro-Spray, sub wallet and checkbook cover, etc. About $250 worth of small items. I will be printing plenty, believe me. This array of sublimatable items makes my creative juices explode, LOL! I plan to do pillows, sports bras, you name it! And of course, I will posting plenty of pics on Facebook and will be opening an Etsy account. Maybe I won't have to worry about having ink expire, ha ha. How long is it good for, anyway?

I'm not sure exactly, for those that mark inks they put a "use by" date. So that depends on the date the batch was manufactured. How long they sit on the shelf before they get to you would be your time remaining.

And inks don't just "rot" the day they expire, you have some time beyond that, just the vendors won't guarantee beyond the use by date.

That would really be vendor specific question for what you should expect typically. I would think Cobra has probably has a "rotation" scheme in his inventory to be mindful of not storing inks to long.



At this time, I do not have the funds for a mug press, and my clamshell, 10 year old heat press, does not have any option for attachments, so I am considering purchasing mug wraps for both mugs and for dog bowls. I have a good outlet to the "dog world" so a lot of my items will be tailored to that market. I watched the Conde videos, and they say the [B][I]wraps cannot be used in your home oven?? Why not?? Is the sublimation ink toxic?

I don't know exactly about toxicity but I do know with food processing that unless you test and certify a substance to be safe it should not be used, no matter if it really is safe or not. Unless someone tested and certified then you don't know. Food goes in your body so err on the side of caution.


They do theirs in a Cuisinart toaster oven. So is that something I will need to buy too??

You can use either a toaster over or a mug press. Ovens and wraps are easier to setup and typically has less of a learning curve than a mug press does. But a mug press works much faster and can make a difference in production if you are print on demnad live retail. I have both, but haven't done live retail in some time.

Wraps will typically let you get closer to the top and bottom rim and closer to to the mug handle.

Also wraps in an oven heat the mug slower and more even, so you have few issues with dye migration as you might with a mug press. Depending on the press and the mug, some people have to dunk the mug in warm water to "check" the migration once the mug comes out of the press. Migration shows up as bluring of the inmage, the dye is actually traveling and loses it's sharpness.


People want mugs. It's just that simple. I hadn't been planning to do that YET -- but I just showed a friend some of the things I will be able to sublimate, and she went right from the christmas ornaments, to asking if I can do mugs! Sigh. I guess I will be doing them sooner than I originally thought, ha ha...
Mark up in your text above.
 
Old November 13th, 2015 Nov 13, 2015 1:44:21 PM -   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dye Sub Newbie Needs Some Input from Experience

Again Mike, THANK YOU. Your responses are detailed and knowledgable. You have helped me immensely.

Just one more question. You said that sometimes the mug has to be dipped in water to cool and to stop the ink from blurring the image -- and I have seen this in several Conde videos too -- but I did read somewhere on the forum that doing that can craze the glazing on the mug and that it shows up after use and the coffee or whatever stains the cracks. So the question is, to dip or not to dip?

Again, thanks so very much!
 
Old November 13th, 2015 Nov 13, 2015 3:43:14 PM -   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dye Sub Newbie Needs Some Input from Experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelicEndeavour
Again Mike, THANK YOU. Your responses are detailed and knowledgable. You have helped me immensely.

Just one more question. You said that sometimes the mug has to be dipped in water to cool and to stop the ink from blurring the image -- and I have seen this in several Conde videos too -- but I did read somewhere on the forum that doing that can craze the glazing on the mug and that it shows up after use and the coffee or whatever stains the cracks. So the question is, to dip or not to dip?

Again, thanks so very much!
If the water is too cool yes the mugs can crack. You have to use warm water. It's best to avoid, however, but depending on the mug coating and the mug press you might not have any choice.

Wraps and ovens heat evenly, presses effectively "heat shock" the mug and the heating is focused on the heater element area where the mug goes into the press.

Even using a very nice expensive mug press (Novachrome) and Cactus mugs I had no choice than to dunk, otherwise I got migration.

Never had any cracks and I still have several mugs done that way I have had for years and use them, but I'm very careful about the water being warm.

Some people with some presses and some mugs don't have to dunk, others do.
 
Old November 13th, 2015 Nov 13, 2015 9:50:44 PM -   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dye Sub Newbie Needs Some Input from Experience

Warm water noted. Will do just to be safe. Thanks again.
 
Old November 14th, 2015 Nov 14, 2015 2:42:38 AM -   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dye Sub Newbie Needs Some Input from Experience

In reference to the ink carts I got a set from here Inkproducts.com they are carts that are all joined together and the company says to fill them while still in the printer but I didn't have good luck doing that so I take them out to fill however......they have a little button on them that you just "push" to reset them and they have been working really good for me in my epson 1430
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Old November 14th, 2015 Nov 14, 2015 3:12:31 AM -   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dye Sub Newbie Needs Some Input from Experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelicEndeavour
Before deciding to post, I have been doing A LOT of reading, but would like some feedback, and maybe some tips from those experience "dye subbers" out there... A little about me (quickly) -- I have been using inkjet transfers (primarily JPSS) since it first came out in 2006 or 2007, and had a hobby/micro biz mainly doing custom photo shirts. I was out of "the biz" for quite a few years, and have come back within the past year. I recently purchased a Cameo cutter and have been doing HTV and outdoor vinyl, and now I would like to learn more about dye sub. I have always appreciated the quality of dye sub, and the array of substrates is very exciting!

I would like to purchase a sub printer, and have decided to buy through Cobra Ink. I have an Epson WF3520 with CIS that I purchased a year and a half ago, and I love it. It has been pretty trouble-free. I would like the simplicity of a CIS in a dye sub printer, but I also understand that the ink expires? I also understand that I would need to print often to avoid clogs -- but how often? Daily? Weekly? What has other people's experience been with Cobra Ink Dye Sub CIS? Any specific issue?

The alternative is refillable carts. I admit that I did this once before with pigment ink (they were NOT Cobra Ink refillable carts though), and I hated it. This option would afford me the ability to switch back and forth, between sub and pigment, with just a head-cleaning, which is great -- but my last experience was dreadful because the printer was not recognizing the cart, and while I was trying to get that issue resolved, the refillable cart actually let loose in my printer, and completely destroyed it. I was so frustrated, I actually stopped doing shirts and walked away from it. Just too much frustration. So yes, refillable carts may give me more options, but I'm getting anxiety just thinking about it. Additionally, I did read a poster recently that said, "Due to the problems that Cobra has been having with refillable carts..." What problem is this specifically? I'd really like to know before making a decision.

The two wide-format printers I am considering, are the 7110 and 7610. I do not need another scanner, so the fact that the 7110 doesn't have that, doesn't bother me. What I do want, is a reliable printer that can handle sub. Which printer would YOU choose, if it were YOUR money buying it?

Also, with inkjet transfers and HTV, we mirror the image, and there is always one side of the paper that the design goes on -- is this true for dye sub transfer paper? Is there some type of pattern on the paper to let you know which is the back?

Any other tips you can give someone that is new to this genre?

Many thanks,
Melissa
Isnt this a re-post?
 
Old November 14th, 2015 Nov 14, 2015 5:23:29 AM -   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dye Sub Newbie Needs Some Input from Experience

I don't think so...
 






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