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Discuss the various inks available for direct to garment printers. Wash tests, pictures and comparisons are all welcome.



My Firebird DTG Ink Review and Experiences

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Old May 16th, 2014 May 16, 2014 4:32:51 PM -   #16 (permalink)
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Default re: My Firebird DTG Ink Review and Experiences

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostofmedusa
For sure - I intend to be extremely detailed with this topic... I really want to like this FB White. I doubt a big chem company would just make claims without knowing for sure if the washability is congruent with claims. I am sure they spent a lot of money researching and launching. I just know I am not new to DTG anymore. Prints are outstanding before washes...

Would love to hear from some other FB users as well...
Thank you. These updates also help others who may be interested now or in the future.
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Old May 16th, 2014 May 16, 2014 5:36:24 PM -   #17 (permalink)
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Default re: My Firebird DTG Ink Review and Experiences

I use Freejet 330 as well. still on dupont, not sure if i will change anytime soon. DTG is so much pain already. I dont want any worse.
 
Old May 16th, 2014 May 16, 2014 6:18:00 PM -   #18 (permalink)
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Default re: My Firebird DTG Ink Review and Experiences

Quote:
Originally Posted by woohooguy
I use Freejet 330 as well. still on dupont, not sure if i will change anytime soon. DTG is so much pain already. I dont want any worse.
Stick with it WooHoo, Freejet is a great machine..

Wash results posted soon, Philly shirt in dryer on regular heat - print side out as I would with DuPont
 
 
Old May 16th, 2014 May 16, 2014 6:40:47 PM -   #19 (permalink)
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Default re: My Firebird DTG Ink Review and Experiences

Hey T,

Like you, I switched to FB this week. Both White and CMYK. I am having a hard time achieving good whites using Image Armor. I am hoping it is a matter of pretreatment. so I am ordering FB pretreatment next week to make sure. I will let you know what happens. Thanks for the posts.
 
Old May 16th, 2014 May 16, 2014 8:36:30 PM -   #20 (permalink)
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Default re: My Firebird DTG Ink Review and Experiences

OK - wash test comlete on Philly shirt..

Details:

FreeJet330TX Printed at 2880x1440/ 2 passes (even though "color" pass seemed to just print white over top of WUB)

Pretreated with Image Armor. Medium coverage with Wagner Flexi. I am pretty even with this process but would have to show a vid of how I do this, since everybody has a different method they swear by..

Heat Press - GeoKnight 16x20 Clamshell

Pressure - 6 (because light pressure was used on shirts with cracking, so I turned that up for 'Philly'

Press Duration - 1:30 (1 min/30secs) because shirts at 60 secs showed significant cracking without stretch test

Philly Shirt sat over over night (about 17 hours after heat press) then went into wash.

__________________________________________________ __

Results:

*Note: I stretched the absolute hell out this shirt after the wash, as this is/was the whole purpose of my post.

Significant improvement on all lettering on shirt (See photos). I would imagine that this is because the aqueous vapor can escape a lot easier from underneath the smaller surface area the lettering makes. Only very little "splitting" vs "cracking", and only affecting about 10% of the lettering portion of the print. Significant improvement from the 90+% that cracking that effected shirts that received only 60 second press. Also used more pressure on this Tee.

The 'Bell' portion of the shirt... This yielded significant cracking underneath all larger protions of WUB. This is another story.. A lot of veterans will be quick to blame pre-treating style for this.. And the only thing I can tell you is that I have a lot of confidence in my PT ability. Have a very steady hand and am very considerate and 'even' regarding PT application. I've pretty much mastered an Image Armor PT Technique which work great for us (on DuPont), not that difficult to achieve after a year of tweaking this process daily...

Now, after hours of thinking about why one part of the shirt would be amply cured, while another portion would suffer from cracking is this: 60 seconds was simply not enough to expel all of the water/liquid vapors out from under the larger WUB printed sections... Meaning this, 60 seconds was enough for the smaller lettering, however, It might take a longer heatpress period for the larger white areas to lose enough moisture to properly cure... I am not 100% committed to this theory about this little phenomenon, but this is what I've arrived at tonight..

I am doing the same exact print with 2 minute curing times tonight (divided into 1 min and 1 min). And same level 5 pressure on the Geo. And as Billy Lazo suggested, I am leaving them alone for 24 hours before wash/destruction/update happens again, to allow the chems in the drying print to do what they do over night...

Let me know your thoughts. I will try to upload a vid here

Edit* I just noticed you can zoom up on some these photos, it gets very close to the fibers FYI.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20140516_202712.jpg (2.24 MB, 114 views)
File Type: jpg 20140516_202702.jpg (2.60 MB, 106 views)
File Type: jpg 20140516_202727.jpg (2.31 MB, 118 views)
File Type: jpg 20140516_202857.jpg (2.72 MB, 92 views)

Last edited by ghostofmedusa; May 16th, 2014 at 09:33 PM..
 
Old May 16th, 2014 May 16, 2014 9:13:08 PM -   #21 (permalink)
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Default re: My Firebird DTG Ink Review and Experiences

I welcomed myself to the 21st Century and posted an extremely shabby vid of the 'Philly' shirt in this post. I'll do a much better one on Sunday, but this should show what I am talking about... I think its 1080P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hO8q...ature=youtu.be
 
Old May 16th, 2014 May 16, 2014 11:35:39 PM -   #22 (permalink)
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Default re: My Firebird DTG Ink Review and Experiences

Quote:
Originally Posted by estrada
Hey T,

Like you, I switched to FB this week. Both White and CMYK. I am having a hard time achieving good whites using Image Armor. I am hoping it is a matter of pretreatment. so I am ordering FB pretreatment next week to make sure. I will let you know what happens. Thanks for the posts.

Yes - please us all know how it goes with the Firebird PT. In the mean time I will experiment with IA and cure times. It took me around 20 prints to defect from the 60 second curing time, and broke new ground. With the IA pretreat mind you... This might be totally different with the Firebird PT. I would order some of the FB PT but I am sitting on 4 gals of Image Armor at the moment, and have to make do with what I've got...
 
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Old May 16th, 2014 May 16, 2014 11:53:59 PM -   #23 (permalink)
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Default re: My Firebird DTG Ink Review and Experiences

i cant thanked the people in this forum enough. I can see a lot of $$ and energy is being spent on experimenting with this new ink. I'll buy you a beer the next time you drop by my shop down here in Indonesia.
 
Old May 17th, 2014 May 17, 2014 2:44:31 AM -   #24 (permalink)
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Default re: My Firebird DTG Ink Review and Experiences

i have a freejet too

plz keep testing, im planning too switch too.... but still afraid the trouble it gets me

im currently very comfortable with dupont now.... but i want that 60 sec cure that firebird has..

plz try using Firebird pretreatment, see if there your crack still occurs
 
Old May 17th, 2014 May 17, 2014 3:13:16 AM -   #25 (permalink)
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Default re: My Firebird DTG Ink Review and Experiences

I don't have freejet but have been using firebird inks since November. My best results have been when using Firebird pretreat and all inks as firebird (switch all at once, not just white or select colors). At this point we have probably printed 10,000+ shirts with Firebird and are very satisfied with the results. Nothing but praise from customers.
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Old May 17th, 2014 May 17, 2014 7:45:57 AM -   #26 (permalink)
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Default re: My Firebird DTG Ink Review and Experiences

When I switched to FB W and CMYK i was initially using IA Dark and getting horrible results. Once I moved to the FB PT the dark prints improved considerably.

This is by no means a knock on IA as they have a great product, it just didn't work well for the dark with FB.

I still use IA light for light garments but i use the FB PT for my dark.
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Last edited by metalbone; May 17th, 2014 at 08:04 AM..
 
Old May 17th, 2014 May 17, 2014 7:53:11 AM -   #27 (permalink)
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Default re: My Firebird DTG Ink Review and Experiences

Great to hear that it may be a simple as using the FB PT instead of IA... Thanks for adding
 
Old May 17th, 2014 May 17, 2014 8:05:02 AM -   #28 (permalink)
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Default re: My Firebird DTG Ink Review and Experiences

Quote:
Originally Posted by bakedts
I don't have freejet but have been using firebird inks since November. My best results have been when using Firebird pretreat and all inks as firebird (switch all at once, not just white or select colors). At this point we have probably printed 10,000+ shirts with Firebird and are very satisfied with the results. Nothing but praise from customers.
So great to hear. And congratulations on the success. I read your post a few times, it definitely had a role in our decision to switch over to Firebird...

I am not giving up on Firebird at all, am just documenting my experience with Firebird using Image Armor, and trying to be very technical in my description. I think Firebird are doing a great thing considering that DuPont had a monopoly on the ink industry (and no one can say for sure who has the 'real' dupont as they all get relabeled). Besides, I always tend to gamble and go with the pioneers. I respect innovation.
 
Old May 17th, 2014 May 17, 2014 12:31:05 PM -   #29 (permalink)
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Default re: My Firebird DTG Ink Review and Experiences

Quote:
Originally Posted by metalbone
This is by no means a knock on IA as they have a great product, it just didn't work well for the dark with FB.
I agree. The Dupont white / Image armor combo is amazing. Very opaque white, great washability.
 
Old May 17th, 2014 May 17, 2014 2:47:06 PM -   #30 (permalink)
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Default re: My Firebird DTG Ink Review and Experiences

i really think the key to all of this has been stated regarding the need for FB pretreat to go along with their inks. but i just want to add that, generally, a cracking print (but still on the shirt) is often due to under-curing. 2880x1400 white is a TON of white ink, and it would make sense to me that it would need a longer cure time to fully remove the moisture.

however, since others (who have been successful with FB) have stated that they too had poor results with IA pretreat and FB inks, i suspect that is the real issue. i would go back to DuPont white ink until your IA pretreat is gone, and then try FB again, but switch 100% to FB product.

for full disclosure, i'm still happy with IA and DuPont inks, and my cost is very similar to FB, so i don't see the need to go through the testing process again. but i am keeping a close eye on all the the research being done here. thanks to all who are testing and posting!
 






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