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[DTG Brand] Post your experience with the DTG Viper here

 
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Old November 26th, 2009 Nov 26, 2009 7:58:06 PM -   #181 (permalink)
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Default Re: Post your experience with the DTG Viper here

hey Gortz,
No, I have a Brother 541. I don't think white ink technology is there yet to justify the extra expense. The Brother is a solid, simple, proven machine for lights. I use transfers or contract screen printing for darks depending on the # of shirts. In researching the machines these kinds of comments on this machine seemed common, so I eliminated it from my options.
 
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Old November 27th, 2009 Nov 27, 2009 5:18:25 PM -   #182 (permalink)
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Default Re: Post your experience with the DTG Viper here

CMYK inksets are very stable, any machine will work all day every day using just CMYK.

Sure, white ink is a bit more tricky but with the latest generation inks, white ink systems as well as an operator that is willing to learn white ink management and sticks to the rules of white ink you have a very viable technology.

I will just stress the point of sticking to the white ink rules, all too often I see people bend the rules or get slack with doing their maintenance.
 
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Old November 27th, 2009 Nov 27, 2009 5:37:59 PM -   #183 (permalink)
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Default Re: Post your experience with the DTG Viper here

Quote:
Originally Posted by avantis
Hi,

I have beedn told by a chemist from Germany, that white ink pumping and circulating, can even fasten bad thing called polimerization.
So Everybody suggest closed bagged prefilled cartridges, what is your opinion?

Br

Avantis
The ink is a water based polymer, the curing is done by removing the water content from the mix by applying heat in a measured fashion. The inks used in DTG products are not thixotropic and the WIMS is a breakthrough in keeping the titanium dioxide correctly suspended in the carrier.
 
 
Old November 27th, 2009 Nov 27, 2009 5:43:11 PM -   #184 (permalink)
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Default Re: Post your experience with the DTG Viper here

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected]
hey Gortz,
No, I have a Brother 541. I don't think white ink technology is there yet to justify the extra expense.
Yep, the density of titanium dioxide makes white ink printing something that is not for the faint hearted. However the DTG WIMS system has made massive improvements to reliability with systems using the white ink. The Brother is a pretty solid machine but most machines will print happily with CMYK only anyway.
 
Old November 27th, 2009 Nov 27, 2009 10:30:52 PM -   #185 (permalink)
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Default Re: Post your experience with the DTG Viper here

The air bubles are big problem for piezzo technology.
Wimms, put lot of air inside the ink...

The water to solid particles ratio (ink viscosity) is also crucial for keeping smooth ph operation.
In the Wims the water slowly dissapears, what is not in the case of the closed bagged system.
Sunlight, also has influence on it...
Since you use Wims, you need to believe that this is the best, but...
 
Old November 27th, 2009 Nov 27, 2009 11:03:21 PM -   #186 (permalink)
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Default Re: Post your experience with the DTG Viper here

For those having problems with their vipers, where are you located and what dealer are you going through for customer support? I think this is really important to post as well.

I have had my HM1, which is also sold by dtg, and have no problems with printing. I did have a couple of repairs in the first six months of using it, but have been operating it for almost 2 years with no issues what so ever. I also have been printing with white ink in a bulk system since I bought my machine over 2 years ago, and as long as the maintenance is done properly and pretreatment is done properly, my machine prints great. Most of the problems I see with white ink is that the person operating the machine does not understand what goes into taking proper care of the machine, and the environment it needs to operate in.

I have never heard of anyone needing air conditioning to print white ink, and I do not have air conditioning myself. You do need to have proper humidity and temperature in the print area for the ink to flow well, but this is the first I have heard of anyone needing air conditioning, unless you are in a really hot climate, and that is what it takes to get to proper temperature. But as far as DTG machines, I would say they are one of the more reliable brands of printers out there for printing white ink.

If those with problems with the viper, could post who you bought from and who is doing your tech support, that would probably help others to know which vendors to watch for. Just a thought
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Old November 28th, 2009 Nov 28, 2009 12:46:32 AM -   #187 (permalink)
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Default Re: Post your experience with the DTG Viper here

Quote:
Originally Posted by avantis


In the Wims the water slowly dissapears,
I am curious to know where this water would slowly disappear to???
 
Old November 28th, 2009 Nov 28, 2009 3:26:04 PM -   #188 (permalink)
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Default Re: Post your experience with the DTG Viper here

Quote:
Originally Posted by avantis
The air bubles are big problem for piezzo technology.
Wimms, put lot of air inside the ink...

The water to solid particles ratio (ink viscosity) is also crucial for keeping smooth ph operation.
In the Wims the water slowly dissapears, what is not in the case of the closed bagged system.
Sunlight, also has influence on it...
Since you use Wims, you need to believe that this is the best, but...
Hmmmm... viscosity has no effect at all on ph levels, they are two completely different things. However, if you are saying that as the water content of the ink depletes, the ph level of the ink will change then you are correct. Of course by that stage the ink will be like jelly and you can't jet it anyway so it is a mute point.

As for sunlight, well most users have their equipment indoors and I have not seen evidence to suggest that users who have natural ducted lighting have had more problems than those who use artificial lighting.

Most piezo head systems have an agitation cycle whereby the nozzle plates are excited to release disolved air before jetting as DOD systems with bulk feeders do not recover well from air pockets. The WIMS on the Viper is a pressurized ink system which helps prevent this condition.

I don't make these comments lightly either, I have spent a *lot* of time with the scientists of more than one major DTG ink manufacturer on a professional level.

Last edited by Gordz; November 28th, 2009 at 03:27 PM.. Reason: spelling
 
Old December 3rd, 2009 Dec 3, 2009 6:17:31 AM -   #189 (permalink)
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Default Re: Post your experience with the DTG Viper here

Heya all,
I bought a viper and it arrived last friday.
I was happy with the purchase. Everything was ok. No clogging or print head blockage....until...today (not even one week).
When I came back home this afternoon (I installed the printer at home because Im still learning), I did all the routine such as Nozzle check. white all gone.
It's a bit late to call the supplier. Do head cleaning but no result.
If possible, I dont want to do any power cleaning.
I havent even print one tshirt using this machine so finger crossed....I will post again after I managed to contact my supplier...
again, hopefully nothing wrong with it. It will be my sleepless night.
 
Old December 3rd, 2009 Dec 3, 2009 12:35:23 PM -   #190 (permalink)
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Default Re: Post your experience with the DTG Viper here

Please check that your WIMS is operating correctly, also bear in mind that it is probably better to do a standard head clean followed by a nozzle check print before attempting a power clean,
 
Old December 3rd, 2009 Dec 3, 2009 12:49:55 PM -   #191 (permalink)
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Default Re: Post your experience with the DTG Viper here

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcloud73
Day Worked for 2 weeks then the print head clogged again. Warrantied a print head and I paid shipping. All in all, we have changed 5 print heads, a capping station, the mother board, the boss board, and the gear assembly box.
Finally, I have more knowledge about this machine than the techs (jk, close tho), because I was the one replacing all these parts. Finally they replace the machine. It worked great until the printer head drive belt slipped out of place and the smooth part of the belt was on the toothed wheel on the side with the control panel. It took a week to diagnose that problem. I remove the entire print head assembly and placed the belt in the proper position. Print head was damaged due to it being bounced all over the place. I did not receive the promotional print head and ink started kit that I received with the faulty machine, when I got the new machine.
Don post on NeoFlex forum about Viper ink circulate system. "Quote:Originally Posted by Don-SWF EastActually. Peter, the manifold does cause the ink in the dampers to pulse and circulate. We have also found that the vortex caused by this actually draws the ink back in from the head a bit and does not allow it to dry up in the head. $.15 per hour equates to $3.60 per day of wasted ink, or $1314 per year for the automatic head cleanings. This is one of the reasons we stopped implementing it in our newer models.

Just wanted to clarify

.It says "draws back ink into printhead" and he said it will help not clogging. I think it is opposite it will dry quicker. Viper circulate system is circulating cartridge - tube only where very rare trouble occurs. Most problem come from Damper and Printhead 90%. This is why I have different system. He said my system is waste money = this means he will never use my system (let's wait and see) which is simple clean while you away more than day.

My respond was:
"Draw the ink back" It keep draws back and ink nozzle will dry up quicker. Da~

Find the way of ink moving in Damper and inside of Printhead then you can compete with NeoFlex.

$0.15 per simple clean: I am not sure where you come up with this but my calculation is $0.10 per each clean. On Top my ink price is cheaper than your ink price. Did you apply your ink price or My ink price?
So~ Cut small talk.
Each time $0.10
Nobody use and not necessary on normal operating (day by day print, Mon-Fri).
Weekend or long get away we recommend 8-10 hours set up. so 3 time per day. Off day of the year include vacation 100 days? $0.10 x 3 x 100days = $300 maximum. Minimum $250. If you work Saturday Then it will be almost 1/2. =$125
OK, Now
Will you sleep better and not spending so much money on Printhead and expensive Dampers and lost time and lost production.
One Printhead less is ($495 + pain) It could be 2 printhead. $500-$1000
Damper original ($30 x8 + pain) could be more too. $240-$480
($125 per year) VS (yours $750-$1480? + pain + no production + next day air shipping + customer screaming)
Even child can figure out easily.

Don, come up with a better one next time.
PS:One of your dealer who change line to us told me NeoFlex>>>>>>>>> Viper.
Thank you very much!!
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Last edited by allamerican; December 3rd, 2009 at 12:59 PM..
 
Old December 3rd, 2009 Dec 3, 2009 12:59:26 PM -   #192 (permalink)
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Default Re: Post your experience with the DTG Viper here

Thankyou Peter

Once again your posts are very informative and go a long way to create goodwill to the DTG community. I am also impressed with your mathematical ability - You surely can multi task

Keep up the good work

Regards
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Old December 3rd, 2009 Dec 3, 2009 1:17:39 PM -   #193 (permalink)
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Default Re: Post your experience with the DTG Viper here

I'm Steve - i will pass onto Don your regards and warning re pulling a nose hair of a Tiger - it will be helpfull

Thanks Again
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Old December 3rd, 2009 Dec 3, 2009 1:31:10 PM -   #194 (permalink)
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Default Re: Post your experience with the DTG Viper here

It appears to me that some posts on this forum are very convoluted and misleading.
Snippets of information are being construed and reworded and presented as being factual in order to push one product over another.

It is a very shallow approach and I feel that it does absolutelly nothing to instill any confidence in someone that is thinking of purchasing a machine, regardless of brand.

Lets keep it real hey
 
Old December 3rd, 2009 Dec 3, 2009 1:47:11 PM -   #195 (permalink)
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Default Re: Post your experience with the DTG Viper here

This post contains no reference to mathematical statistics, Don's posts on other forums, children or the nose hairs of tigers, it will however, be of interest to anyone who would like to know a little more about the WIMS system and pressurised dampers.

The WIMS system uses a peristaltic pump to keep the white ink within the ink lines active. The ebb/flow motion causes the ink within the damper cavity on the presurised side (that is pre-regulator chamber) to move in and out of the internal damper filter. This helps to prevent 'hard settling' and stagnancy problems within the pressure chamber. Ink in the post-pressure chamber is considered 'closed loop' and is not greatly effected by the peristaltic action, however microscopic examination of the nozzle orifice shows that the meniscus does pulse. this has been found to lessen the tendancy of ink within the piezo cavity to separate. Epson use a similar method at a much higher frequency during certain phases during a print cycle to diffuse trapped air within the nozzle cavity.

Please note that the Viper does NOT do automatic or timed head cleanings, this was an option for the HM series.
 






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