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Discussion, tips, pictures, reviews and peer to peer support for current and future DTG Brand garment printer owners.



MESA customers, KIOSK & HM-1 USERS IN HERE

 
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Old June 12th, 2008 Jun 12, 2008 7:28:33 AM -   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: MESA customers, KIOSK & HM-1 USERS IN HERE

Quote:
Originally Posted by TahoeTomahawk
I have a regular Kiosk and don't have banding at 720 dpi, but I have terrible banding at 360 dpi, so bad that I cannot even print anything at that resolution.

I'm getting an Epson 2200 soon, I want to test print at 360 with Epson ink and see if I get banding, then switch over to DTG ink and see if the banding appears.

As for Mesa's support.. they've always been great and helped us work through our problems, I just think they are a little understaffed so it usually takes them awhile to get back to you.
They do have someone who takes calls and the problem description and hands that off to a tech, it would be helpful if that person had a little more training so that if a part on your machine needs to be replaced they can direct you to the supplies department, instead of you waiting several hours or days for a tech to call you back and tell you that you just need to get a new damper or line from the supplies department.
We've got an HM1 and a Kiosk running next to each other, and the HM1 has never produced as good a print as the Kiosk. The Kiosk lays down a lot more ink (albeit a lot slower). We have had huge problems with both of them - they are not made well enough for a production environment. To be honest, if I could change one thing about my company it would be to get rid of the DTGs, but I can't afford to walk away from all that cash. They do get us loads of work but that's because nobody else around here is stupid enough to buy one, let alone two!
Being in the UK I can't vouch for Mesa service, but I'm glad I don't have that job. Can you imagine selling a very expensive product that just doesn't work......
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Old June 12th, 2008 Jun 12, 2008 8:34:24 AM -   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: MESA customers, KIOSK & HM-1 USERS IN HERE

I have a completely different experience with my HM1's and Kiosks. They work very well. I have never called support, because I prefer to be self supporting. Obviously if I needed a motherboard or control motor, I would contact support, but so far so good. Had my Kiosk over 2 years, and my HM1's since September 2007.
 
Old June 12th, 2008 Jun 12, 2008 8:42:24 AM -   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: MESA customers, KIOSK & HM-1 USERS IN HERE

We (SWF East) have over 800 Kiosks and Kiosk II's in the field and they are capable of producing a steady stream of garments when properly maintained. I personally have spoken with customers who have printed over 30,000 garments with a Kiosk and one who printed 1000 garments in 9 days with a Kiosk II. I cannot speak for the support level of any other DTG distributors or our competitors for that matter, only for ours here at SWF East. We have a staff of dedicated DTG technicians, as well we are cross-training several of our embroidery technicians to support direct to garment. Have we had any issues, sure, anyone who tells you haven't either haven't sold enough to know or they are not telling the truth. One thing that we do find, in most instances (90%+ as documented by our records), is that issues that arise are either due to lack of maintenance or failure to attend training. To combat these issues we are continually adding videos and quick reference files to our website to assist those who choose not to get trained or don't do their regular maintenance.
I've stated before and will state again, if you do not have a business plan for the product, do not plan on taking the time to be properly trained and/or won't commit to doing your regular maintenance on your direct to garment printer (anyone's direct to garment printer) - you should probably not buy one or at least be willing to accept the problems that will arise from lack of use, lack of training and/or lack of maintenance.
If you do, however, commit to training, maintenance and and have a solid business plan - the rewards can be huge!
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Last edited by sunnydayz; June 12th, 2008 at 10:50 AM.. Reason: removed comment
 
 
Old June 12th, 2008 Jun 12, 2008 2:15:12 PM -   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: MESA customers, KIOSK & HM-1 USERS IN HERE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don-SWF East
We (SWF East) have over 800 Kiosks and Kiosk II's in the field and they are capable of producing a steady stream of garments when properly maintained. I personally have spoken with customers who have printed over 30,000 garments with a Kiosk and one who printed 1000 garments in 9 days with a Kiosk II. I cannot speak for the support level of any other DTG distributors or our competitors for that matter, only for ours here at SWF East. We have a staff of dedicated DTG technicians, as well we are cross-training several of our embroidery technicians to support direct to garment. Have we had any issues, sure, anyone who tells you haven't either haven't sold enough to know or they are not telling the truth. One thing that we do find, in most instances (90%+ as documented by our records), is that issues that arise are either due to lack of maintenance or failure to attend training. To combat these issues we are continually adding videos and quick reference files to our website to assist those who choose not to get trained or don't do their regular maintenance.
I've stated before and will state again, if you do not have a business plan for the product, do not plan on taking the time to be properly trained and/or won't commit to doing your regular maintenance on your direct to garment printer (anyone's direct to garment printer) - you should probably not buy one or at least be willing to accept the problems that will arise from lack of use, lack of training and/or lack of maintenance.
If you do, however, commit to training, maintenance and and have a solid business plan - the rewards can be huge!
That's great Don - we also print around 15000 a year with a Kiosk - but that's what they're supposed to do!
The printers I have were bought as tools, and as with any other tools that I own they are looked after. In return I expect them to do what the salesman told me. They don't. As for saying 90% of problems are caused by lack of maintenance - OK, how many are caused by the equipment not being up to the job? As a dealer you're going to say zero, but in the real world the figure would be an easy 50%.
And the business plan rubbish - do you tell potential customers how much expensive inks they're going to flush down the drain, how much a new printhead / motherboard / set of dampers is going to cost you? Nope, because until you use the things you don't realise the true costs involved. Huge rewards? I don't think so. I can make more in a hour screenprinting that I can in a week with a Kiosk. This has turned into a huge rant because I spent another day today stripping down my Kiosk, with my HM-1 sat next to it not putting down a decent white. With all due respect Don, until you rely on one of these things, instead of just selling them, I don't think you can comment further.
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Last edited by sunnydayz; June 12th, 2008 at 06:20 PM.. Reason: clean up
 
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Old June 12th, 2008 Jun 12, 2008 3:25:57 PM -   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: MESA customers, KIOSK & HM-1 USERS IN HERE

Alastair, is it safe to conclude that the problem (and the very high cost) really with your machine is in printing on dark/black tees (using the white ink), and that you won't have these problems if you only print white/light shirts?
 
Old June 12th, 2008 Jun 12, 2008 4:51:25 PM -   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: MESA customers, KIOSK & HM-1 USERS IN HERE

There is some truth in what Alastair is saying. I've past the point now where maintenance is what causes my problem. It is now the machine and ink limitations which set me back.

Ink chip resetting when printing white inks. Making you reset your Kiosk every 5-10 prints when doing a white ink job. Still a problem.
Ink line harness slapping (manufacturing fault that users are asked to fix themselves).
White ink settling, pretreatment,etc,etc.

But as DTG owners, we tend to overcome these and continue our business. I'm happy that I'm still making a profit, but I did wish the machine would work better some times.
 
Old June 12th, 2008 Jun 12, 2008 9:54:31 PM -   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: MESA customers, KIOSK & HM-1 USERS IN HERE

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Originally Posted by vctradingcubao
Alastair, is it safe to conclude that the problem (and the very high cost) really with your machine is in printing on dark/black tees (using the white ink), and that you won't have these problems if you only print white/light shirts?
Unfortunately the issues aren't restricted to white ink. We have random intermittent problems with all colours, software glitches, you name it, we've had it.
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Old June 16th, 2008 Jun 16, 2008 9:18:37 AM -   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: MESA customers, KIOSK & HM-1 USERS IN HERE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don-SWF East
We (SWF East) have over 800 Kiosks and Kiosk II's in the field and they are capable of producing a steady stream of garments when properly maintained. I personally have spoken with customers who have printed over 30,000 garments with a Kiosk and one who printed 1000 garments in 9 days with a Kiosk II. I cannot speak for the support level of any other DTG distributors or our competitors for that matter, only for ours here at SWF East. We have a staff of dedicated DTG technicians, as well we are cross-training several of our embroidery technicians to support direct to garment. Have we had any issues, sure, anyone who tells you haven't either haven't sold enough to know or they are not telling the truth. One thing that we do find, in most instances (90%+ as documented by our records), is that issues that arise are either due to lack of maintenance or failure to attend training. To combat these issues we are continually adding videos and quick reference files to our website to assist those who choose not to get trained or don't do their regular maintenance.
I've stated before and will state again, if you do not have a business plan for the product, do not plan on taking the time to be properly trained and/or won't commit to doing your regular maintenance on your direct to garment printer (anyone's direct to garment printer) - you should probably not buy one or at least be willing to accept the problems that will arise from lack of use, lack of training and/or lack of maintenance.
If you do, however, commit to training, maintenance and and have a solid business plan - the rewards can be huge!
I'm glad to hear that you have a solid sales pitch for the people who DONT have an HM1 or kiosk in their company yet. Unfortunately, this only works for a small handful of your customers, and my hat is off to them.

However, for the rest of us, I'll actually only speak for myself and my experience. Again, do you inform your customers on how many hundreds of dollars of expensive inks they will be wasting? Do you inform them of all of the small problems that the HM1 has, such as the damper system that was converted to cartridges? Or do you mention the fact that the white ink clogs up after a couple of days?

And the 3 different versions of RIP PRO that is released during a year, and I have to call to actually get a copy of it, its not offered to the customer as its released. Have you mentioned that to your customers?

I opened this thread to gain some insight on other peoples experiences with MESA and their machines and service. Unfortunately my machine is still not working 100%, and with an over $25,000 price tag on it, I do demand that it work 100%, and yes I perform all of the daily maintenance on it. I am no stranger to these machines.

So, please if you have any more information or experiences please postem up.
 
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Old June 16th, 2008 Jun 16, 2008 9:34:54 AM -   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: MESA customers, KIOSK & HM-1 USERS IN HERE

I wanted to respond to this post as another HM1 owner. I do not have any problems printing with my HM1. I knew what to expect before purchase and I have gotten exactly what I expected. Does it use ink doing auto cleans? Yes, all dtg machines do. Do you need to keep up maintenance to keep it printing properly? Yes as is with all dtg machines. Will the white ink clog if not used? Yes it will in all dtg machines.

I have not had any problems with my dampers what so ever, but I do have the original dampers so I cant speak on the cartridges as I dont have them. As far as the rip software and getting upgrades, If you become a member of the dtg forum it is available there each time it is upgraded. I have never had to call anyone to get this, I just go over there and download the upgrades. Pretty much all of the companies that sell dtg printers have the same system. They load their rip upgrades to their forums and the members are welcome to go download them.

I have had 2 problems within a year from my machine and both were fixed very quickly. I have never had anything but good results when having a problem. Maybe if you can list exactly what your problem is someone can help. There are a lot of really helpful people here, that would be glad to offer advice if they think they can help, but they need more information as to your specific problem.
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Old June 16th, 2008 Jun 16, 2008 12:56:43 PM -   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: MESA customers, KIOSK & HM-1 USERS IN HERE

sunnydayz, I appreciate your response, and its good to hear its working out for you.

As for the problem, i have a 3d have going on when i print a single color layer. I looks like I am printing 2 layers and the 2nd one is off slightly and printing further down. Unfortunately, I'm only printing one layer. My settings are as follows:

Adobe Photoshop CS2
8 Bit RGB Color PSD File
300 Pixels
Print Quality: 1440x720
Color Appearance: Photo - Normal
Color Passes: 1
Media Type: White Cotton
Print Direction: Bidirectional

And we just had our encoder wheel/sensor replaced and a new print head installed (just on the off chance), print head re aligned more times than i can count through the Kiosk ADJ program, and a BRAND NEW version of DTG RIP PRO V.03 (743).

Those are the only settings that I was ever instructed to change.
Here are some pics.



Hope this helps anyone that knows what is wrong with the machine, because unfortunately MESA in Fort Worth does not.

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Old June 16th, 2008 Jun 16, 2008 12:59:14 PM -   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: MESA customers, KIOSK & HM-1 USERS IN HERE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastair
Unfortunately the issues aren't restricted to white ink. We have random intermittent problems with all colours, software glitches, you name it, we've had it.
must have skipped over this post, but +1 with us too.
 
Old June 16th, 2008 Jun 16, 2008 1:18:29 PM -   #27 (permalink)
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Default Re: MESA customers, KIOSK & HM-1 USERS IN HERE

hmmm that is strange. Is this happening on every file? What type of shirt are you printing on?
Have you tried printing out of any other program such as corel draw?

Also have you tried to print directly from your epson print driver to your machine? If you are not using the white ink I would try printing directly from the epson driver just to see if it prints well from there. If it does it would be likely that the rip is the problem. If it still prints that way then you could pretty much rule out the rip as being the problem.

Do your nozzle checks come out normal, matching the on screen display, or does it give you the same effect on that as well. If this is off then I would definately think that the alignment is to blame.

Hope this helps to try to isolate the problem. I would think that would be the first thing, is to figure out what is giving you this effect, then go from there to figure out exactly what it is.

Also is your wiper blade real clean and the bottom of the printhead?
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Old June 16th, 2008 Jun 16, 2008 2:32:36 PM -   #28 (permalink)
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Default Re: MESA customers, KIOSK & HM-1 USERS IN HERE

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnydayz
hmmm that is strange. Is this happening on every file? What type of shirt are you printing on?
Have you tried printing out of any other program such as corel draw?

Also have you tried to print directly from your epson print driver to your machine? If you are not using the white ink I would try printing directly from the epson driver just to see if it prints well from there. If it does it would be likely that the rip is the problem. If it still prints that way then you could pretty much rule out the rip as being the problem.

Do your nozzle checks come out normal, matching the on screen display, or does it give you the same effect on that as well. If this is off then I would definately think that the alignment is to blame.

Hope this helps to try to isolate the problem. I would think that would be the first thing, is to figure out what is giving you this effect, then go from there to figure out exactly what it is.

Also is your wiper blade real clean and the bottom of the printhead?
This happens to every type of file, and we print onto 100% cotton items.

How do you print directly from the driver?

We do not have corel draw.

nozzle checks come out just like they should.

Wiper blade is brand new and keeps the bottom of the print head perfectly clean. and i clean it twice a day with cleaning solution to keep the excess ink off of it.

Trust me, I would LOVE to figure out what exactly is causing this. Mesa is completely stumped too, and has not come up with anything new to try.
 
Old June 16th, 2008 Jun 16, 2008 6:05:38 PM -   #29 (permalink)
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Default Re: MESA customers, KIOSK & HM-1 USERS IN HERE

Does this happen all the way accross the platten? If it changes from left to right I would suspect the "rail" that the head rides on is tweaked.

When you print secondary colors, is the the "shadow" one or both of the primaries?

Is the printer and the platten perfectly level?

From you pictures, it appears that this is the result of the platen not the head. If your printing table is not absolutly solid stable, I might expect something like this. Kind of like the platen bouncing back. If you print in 720 is this effect less? If you print unidirectional, does it help?

I'm sure these are things that you've probably checked on. Good luck to you.
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Last edited by zoom_monster; June 16th, 2008 at 06:15 PM..
 
Old June 16th, 2008 Jun 16, 2008 6:43:35 PM -   #30 (permalink)
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Default Re: MESA customers, KIOSK & HM-1 USERS IN HERE

The easiest way to test your epson print driver is too just go into your control panel, right click the epson icon and go to properties. On the general tab in the properties click print test page, make sure to have a white shirt loaded on your platen to be able to see print clearly. See if this prints clearly. If it does, I would try reinstalling your rip , I have had to do this before after upgrading as every once in awhile it will install funny, or you may have inadvertently changed something and not realized it. I would first see how your test print prints first though, with the test page on the epson print driver. That should give you a good idea if it is hardware or software related.
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