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Kiosk HM1 test print and wash

 
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Old June 28th, 2007 Jun 28, 2007 11:43:44 AM -   #1 (permalink)
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Default Kiosk HM1 test print and wash

Last Saturday, I went to one of the DTG machine seller and do some testing in printing and later wash the t-shirt. I read most of the threads here before I go for the testing and somehow know a little bit what to expect in terms of pre-print and post-print procedures. I read the HM1 manual which I downloaded as well.

The print out result was amazing both in black cloth and white shirt. The different between the white shirt and black cloth is the black cloth is their cloth which already pre-treated before I was there and the white tee which I brought there was pre-treated on the spot before proceeded to the printing...

The reason using their pre-treated black cloth is because they opened for business until 1.00 pm and the time wasn't suffice to do our black tee. I think it's ok so we went ahead with their cloth.

After that, the sample was brought home and wash...And this is the outcome after the first wash...

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b8...icture-002.jpg


http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b8...icture-004.jpg
[IMG]file:///I:/Picture-002.jpg[/IMG]
Erm...what actually gone wrong or rather is this normal for a DTG? I didn't have the sample before washing for comparison but before washed, the colour was solid.

From one of the thread, I knew Kornit is amazing but of course that piece is way out of my budget and if this is normal for a DTG after the first or second wash...I certainly don't think anyone will want to buy the tees printed by this machine...

And of course, since it's a white tee, so it's a one pass print. I need to make up my mind to go thru all the hassle of loan or leasing if I really want this machine. Many many thanks for any help at all. Thank you.
 
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Old June 28th, 2007 Jun 28, 2007 12:45:59 PM -   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kiosk HM1 test print and wash

looks like a combination of poor heatpressing and fibrillation. You should expect some loss in print after the first wash but not what you are showing with your sample
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Old June 28th, 2007 Jun 28, 2007 1:47:58 PM -   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kiosk HM1 test print and wash

It's been my experience that 1 pass CMYK with these machines does not wash well. I always use 2 passes CMYK and get great wash-fast prints. Two passes at 360 dpi wash and look much better than one pass 720 dpi.

Regards,
GRH
 
 
Old June 28th, 2007 Jun 28, 2007 5:27:25 PM -   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kiosk HM1 test print and wash

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRH
It's been my experience that 1 pass CMYK with these machines does not wash well. I always use 2 passes CMYK and get great wash-fast prints. Two passes at 360 dpi wash and look much better than one pass 720 dpi.

Regards,
GRH
GRH, that's what we've found also. The only problem with double passes (of 360 or 720) is that sometimes it changes the colors in the print or darkens it due to over-saturation.

What type of printer are you using?
We have the standard Kiosk, 7 channel head.
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Old June 28th, 2007 Jun 28, 2007 6:16:06 PM -   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kiosk HM1 test print and wash

Adam,

I am using a T-Jet 2. I think that all epson based printers using Dupont ink are the same. I guess it depends some what on the rip.

Regards,
GRH
 
Old June 28th, 2007 Jun 28, 2007 7:34:12 PM -   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kiosk HM1 test print and wash

Did you wash right after being transfered or did you wait a few days. I heard with any print DTG or screen print it is better to wait before washing. Help the ink cure better.
 
Old June 28th, 2007 Jun 28, 2007 10:16:51 PM -   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kiosk HM1 test print and wash

Quote:
Originally Posted by polomac
Did you wash right after being transfered or did you wait a few days. I heard with any print DTG or screen print it is better to wait before washing. Help the ink cure better.
Shouldn't matter as long as it was heat pressed properly. As csquared mentioned its probably fibrillation issue which affects pretty much every white shirt I've come across. Colored/dark shirts actually wash better for me because of the white ink layer keeping the fibres down.

Like the rest of you guys, I only do 2 passes of CMYK now (sometimes 3 if its a solid black print or solid colors). One pass printing simply does not saturate the cotton enough and has terrible wash quality. If you think otherwise PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG and then tell me how you do it. Except or you Kornit owners

I compenstate for the over saturation of color by increasing the brightness of the print by 15-20%. I think customers prefer vibrancy and a solid print as opposed to an exact color match.
 
Old June 29th, 2007 Jun 29, 2007 12:04:24 AM -   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kiosk HM1 test print and wash

Quote:
Originally Posted by zhenjie
Shouldn't matter as long as it was heat pressed properly. As csquared mentioned its probably fibrillation issue which affects pretty much every white shirt I've come across. Colored/dark shirts actually wash better for me because of the white ink layer keeping the fibres down.

Like the rest of you guys, I only do 2 passes of CMYK now (sometimes 3 if its a solid black print or solid colors). One pass printing simply does not saturate the cotton enough and has terrible wash quality. If you think otherwise PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG and then tell me how you do it. Except or you Kornit owners

I compenstate for the over saturation of color by increasing the brightness of the print by 15-20%. I think customers prefer vibrancy and a solid print as opposed to an exact color match.
Very good idea about increasing the brightness in order to do multiple passes. I'm going to give that a try.
Are you doing 360 or 720 dpi?
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Old June 29th, 2007 Jun 29, 2007 12:13:35 AM -   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kiosk HM1 test print and wash

Quote:
Originally Posted by TahoeTomahawk
Very good idea about increasing the brightness in order to do multiple passes. I'm going to give that a try.
Are you doing 360 or 720 dpi?
720 x 760 usually. BUT, if the design uses any magenta ink I have to do 1440 because I have some nozzles that are permanently clogged . I'm going to squeeze every single ounce of life out of my current print head
 
Old June 29th, 2007 Jun 29, 2007 5:13:10 AM -   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kiosk HM1 test print and wash

Quote:
Originally Posted by zhenjie
720 x 760 usually. BUT, if the design uses any magenta ink I have to do 1440 because I have some nozzles that are permanently clogged . I'm going to squeeze every single ounce of life out of my current print head
At $300 a liter for ink you might consider replacing the head. Printing at 1440 lays down a lot of ink.

Regards,
GRH
 
Old June 29th, 2007 Jun 29, 2007 7:40:24 AM -   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kiosk HM1 test print and wash

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRH
At $300 a liter for ink you might consider replacing the head. Printing at 1440 lays down a lot of ink.

Regards,
GRH
I did consider that, but R&H ink prices from my local distributor have recently dropped in price. Almost half of that you've quoted. So for me, I'm getting a better, more vibrant and solid print at the same cost as previously. Only downside is that it takes longer to print.
 
Old June 29th, 2007 Jun 29, 2007 10:35:24 AM -   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kiosk HM1 test print and wash

Thanks for all the feedback guys.

Regarding the...

FILBRILLATION
Does this means that it's the problem with the material of the tee? I am not in America and apparently those good quality brands like AA, Gildan, Fruits, Hanes (surprisingly these brands are well known here) are not to avail here. The blank tee I bought is without a label but I chose the closest it can get (I actually compare it with the original Pearl Jam, Pumpkins and also Soundgarden tees I had back then now framed and hanged gracefully on the wall of my room, sick ya, I know). The technician of the DTG seller told me the percentage of polyester must not exceeded the percentage of cotton in a tees if you want to printthem with DTG...

NUMBER OF PASSES
If the number of passes is the factor that can actually solve the problem, I wouldn't mind going for few passes. Now I know why previous thread claimed the range of 7-12 tees per hour averagely using DTG as contradicted to what their brochure claim of 35 tees per hour

HEATPRESSING
The quotation of this HM1 from the seller actually comes in bundle together with Wagner Electric Spray Gun and also Insta Heat Press Digital Auto Release. They were using the same heat press to cure the new printed tees. Timing was set according to the user manual.

Anyway, I did wait for two days before washing, no bleach, just detergent and oh...I wash the tees inside out too.

I am curious about good wash. How many time of wash can a tees stand without/before facing the significant fading of it's colour is considered a good wash?
 
Old June 29th, 2007 Jun 29, 2007 11:29:17 AM -   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kiosk HM1 test print and wash

nocrid

Printing 2 passes 360 bidirectional I can print about 20 shirts/Hr, the HM1 should be faster than my T-Jet 2.

Printer manufactures say you can print on 50% polyester shirts and you can but you will get heavy wash out on the first wash. These printers will only really do a good job on 100% cotton. If your test print was on a 50% shirt this is about what you can expect.

Regards,
GRH
 
Old June 30th, 2007 Jun 30, 2007 7:42:24 AM -   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kiosk HM1 test print and wash

Quote:
Originally Posted by zhenjie
I did consider that, but R&H ink prices from my local distributor have recently dropped in price. Almost half of that you've quoted. So for me, I'm getting a better, more vibrant and solid print at the same cost as previously. Only downside is that it takes longer to print.

zhenjie,

I have heard that R&H inks have droped in price but I didn't know the price drop was that drastic. Are you printing the R&H inks over Dupont White? If so how is it going? I may want to take a look at running the R&H inks in the T-Jet.

Regards,
GRH
 
Old June 30th, 2007 Jun 30, 2007 9:23:04 AM -   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kiosk HM1 test print and wash

I've been running R&H inks over Dupont for several months now. I was informed that R&H has several blends of inks out there, one of them for Mesa and East which work better over the dupont Ink. I think they call it the 350 series? I haven't really noticed any change in price over here, except for the white which is now $282 per litre.
I'm also considering switching over to all dupont inks completely since we do the majority of our prints on dark / black shirts.

Anyone else out there with a Kiosk run all dupont inks?
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