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[DIY DTG] R3000 P600 Dampers instead of cartridges?

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Old December 3rd, 2016 Dec 3, 2016 8:41:55 AM -   #91 (permalink)
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Default Re: R3000 P600 Dampers instead of cartridges?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glopear
Does converting to DX4/DX7 dampers make it possible to use IA inks? what about the printhead itself, is that still not problematic?
I personally had issues with IA white ink with this conversion. I am not planning to use this is ink any time soon.
 
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Old December 4th, 2016 Dec 4, 2016 9:07:30 AM -   #92 (permalink)
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Default Re: R3000 P600 Dampers instead of cartridges?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glopear
Does converting to DX4/DX7 dampers make it possible to use IA inks? what about the printhead itself, is that still not problematic?
You can use IA ink without this conversion.

Replacing ink cartridges with dampers is for convenience... cartridge microchips are fickle, they love to crap out... carts leak, have to be replaced regularly... importing from China is the cheapest method, but it adds up when you need to keep buying them every month or two just to have extras on-hand in case something dies... ink carts are by far the worst part of the entire system.

Dampers sidestep that whole problem.

It has nothing to do with ink brands though, I was running IA ink in a stock setup and it was fine.

And yes, White ink is still problematic in ANY direct to garment printer... there's no fixing the fact that White ink air dries in minutes... which means ANY direct to garment printer needs to have White ink run through the lines at LEAST every 24 hours... otherwise you start risking ink dried in the lines (cart lines, printhead, cap station, everywhere).

I would suggest not buying a DTG until you understand just what you're getting into... these (White Ink) machines are a disaster waiting to happen... you need to be on the ball, every single day... and when they break, it's expensive and (down)time consuming... it's like fixing your car on the side of the road out in the middle of nowhere.

IA ink has nothing to do with this thread topic.
 
Old December 4th, 2016 Dec 4, 2016 1:26:33 PM -   #93 (permalink)
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Default Re: R3000 P600 Dampers instead of cartridges?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuush.com
You can use IA ink without this conversion.

Replacing ink cartridges with dampers is for convenience... cartridge microchips are fickle, they love to crap out... carts leak, have to be replaced regularly... importing from China is the cheapest method, but it adds up when you need to keep buying them every month or two just to have extras on-hand in case something dies... ink carts are by far the worst part of the entire system.

Dampers sidestep that whole problem.

It has nothing to do with ink brands though, I was running IA ink in a stock setup and it was fine.

And yes, White ink is still problematic in ANY direct to garment printer... there's no fixing the fact that White ink air dries in minutes... which means ANY direct to garment printer needs to have White ink run through the lines at LEAST every 24 hours... otherwise you start risking ink dried in the lines (cart lines, printhead, cap station, everywhere).

I would suggest not buying a DTG until you understand just what you're getting into... these (White Ink) machines are a disaster waiting to happen... you need to be on the ball, every single day... and when they break, it's expensive and (down)time consuming... it's like fixing your car on the side of the road out in the middle of nowhere.

IA ink has nothing to do with this thread topic.
I'm not sure its true that people are doing this just for convenience (cart issues), then it makes no sense to change the head dampers, I got the impression it's to help with ink flow by increasing the damper sizes. An IA ink seems to be for a lot of people problematic with the stock P600 system.
 
 
Old December 4th, 2016 Dec 4, 2016 9:55:29 PM -   #94 (permalink)
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Default Re: R3000 P600 Dampers instead of cartridges?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glopear
I'm not sure its true that people are doing this just for convenience (cart issues), then it makes no sense to change the head dampers, I got the impression it's to help with ink flow by increasing the damper sizes. An IA ink seems to be for a lot of people problematic with the stock P600 system.
There's talk of an ink flow benefit, but I honestly question whether that's a placebo... it's a pressurized system.

I could be wrong, but I didn't notice a huge ink flow problem with a stock setup (though I suppose ink settling in the lines could build up quicker with smaller tubing)... but IA inks are like water, literally... the "settling" is the only problem, not an ink flow restriction from dampers being "too small" or the like.

What you're referring to is only half the story... as far as I know, there was a bad batch of IA ink that circulated a while back, due to poor handling of the volatile WHITE ink... some of our European friends had problems (which may have also been due to the long shipping times overseas = read: settling)... IA reps said it was because the company hadn't figured out (yet), that they needed to teach suppliers to handle the inks a certain way (White needs to be shaken daily, it can't sit on a shelf for weeks/months)... basically, nobody was shaking them in storage and that caused settling, which caused immediate grief for some unsuspecting DTG owners... I think you can read about all this (and all the questions you have about IA inks) on the IA website... I don't work for them, but I also don't have any complaints using their inks... and the cure times are much better than DuPont, so they shouldn't be overlooked in your research (the KEY word).

As far as the dampers go, they're a "consumable"... meaning they eventually clog and need to be replaced (depends on your print volume)... carts are harder to deal with in this context, as mentioned in my post above... cart "dampers" are an easy swap, which is what you want when you're in the middle of a print run and your machine stops working.

The printhead damper mod is again, a matter of convenience... when one of them clogs and needs to be replaced, it's NO small task to get into the printhead and swap one out (or even inspect to see if that's the problem)... I THINK this was mentioned earlier in this thread, the benefits of the head damper mod.

All the damper mods do is allow easier/access/cheaper/maintenance, which is an inevitable fact of running a White ink DTG... you don't need to do these mods, and you really shouldn't until you get more familiar with running your machine stock... you gotta learn to ride the bike, before you start building custom bikes.

Learn through experience, not cutting corners following advanced tips on forums... understanding the entire system from the ground-up is the only way you'll be able to keep a DIY machine running with the least amount of pain / without painting yourself into a corner... there's nothing worse than not being able to fill an order, AND not knowing what your options are to get running again in a pinch (if your shipment from China is gonna take 10+ days to reach you, for example).

There's no substitution for personal experience... and you will die a painful death in the DIY DTG game without it... people will help randomly online, but there's no real support... bite the bullet, learn hard, THEN customize to suit (and contribute back to the community when you can)... just doing it and rolling with the punches, is how it's done.

You don't get a foolproof system with DIY... you get a simple roadmap... then it's up to you to take the initiative and make your life a success... for example, you need to find all these dampers and mod parts on your own... you can buy ink carts in China, but there's no ONE guy anyone can tell you about... it's up to you to research WHAT you need and WHO to buy it from... it's work, and the only way to figure it out is to learn it innately through bare necessity and the pressure to make your project a success... nobody can teach "experience".

Point being, IA inks quality control issues have been solved... those issues never had anything to do with the P600... if you haven't read about that yet (because you're not reading what IA reps are writing), then you have more DTG research to do before you should be considering "head damper mods" on a custom DIY printer.

Keep reading, buy a machine and figure out how to make it work... THEN start doing mods because you understand WHY you want them for your particular business needs.

Or buy a prebuilt machine that comes with support... I hear @spectra is pretty good!

Anyway, off topic... so I'll leave it at that.... good luck, just do it!

Last edited by cuush.com; December 4th, 2016 at 10:18 PM..
 
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Old December 8th, 2016 Dec 8, 2016 2:00:55 AM -   #95 (permalink)
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Default Re: R3000 P600 Dampers instead of cartridges?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glopear
I'm not sure its true that people are doing this just for convenience (cart issues), then it makes no sense to change the head dampers, I got the impression it's to help with ink flow by increasing the damper sizes. An IA ink seems to be for a lot of people problematic with the stock P600 system.
Cheers for the reply and insight.
 
Old December 8th, 2016 Dec 8, 2016 7:12:11 AM -   #96 (permalink)
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Default Re: R3000 P600 Dampers instead of cartridges?

I finally have all my parts for the "damper" conversion, I'll be making the mods this weekend.

For me, it's just about the convenience of swapping out dampers when they fail.

I've had to open the damper assembly way too much lately. Not sure exactly why I've been having issues, but this will save time troubleshooting for sure.
 
Old December 13th, 2016 Dec 13, 2016 8:17:50 AM -   #97 (permalink)
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Default Re: R3000 P600 Dampers instead of cartridges?

What do you do with the 3 pin black PK/MK switch. I have connected the 2 red cables together, this works but doesn't allow me to do an ink charge. Is it possible, what happens if I connect the black also?
 
Old December 13th, 2016 Dec 13, 2016 8:26:50 AM -   #98 (permalink)
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Default Re: R3000 P600 Dampers instead of cartridges?

Are your cart chip reading full? I believe that's what controls the ability to do an ink charge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glopear
What do you do with the 3 pin black PK/MK switch. I have connected the 2 red cables together, this works but doesn't allow me to do an ink charge. Is it possible, what happens if I connect the black also?
 
Old December 13th, 2016 Dec 13, 2016 8:52:53 AM -   #99 (permalink)
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Default Re: R3000 P600 Dampers instead of cartridges?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glopear
What do you do with the 3 pin black PK/MK switch. I have connected the 2 red cables together, this works but doesn't allow me to do an ink charge. Is it possible, what happens if I connect the black also?
Yeh thats not the problem. You know above the printhead there is 2 pins, a white and black. When you convert to DX7 dampers, you can ,forget the white but need to put the black back and connect the wires. What is the correct connection of these wires?
 
Old February 2nd, 2017 Feb 2, 2017 2:53:24 PM -   #100 (permalink)
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Default Re: R3000 P600 Dampers instead of cartridges?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glopear
Yeh thats not the problem. You know above the printhead there is 2 pins, a white and black. When you convert to DX7 dampers, you can ,forget the white but need to put the black back and connect the wires. What is the correct connection of these wires?
You ever figure this out?

I have a pic of the wires from @jgabby (I think), but I can't tell what he's actually done with the loose ends??

It looks like they're just taped... but then they're also hanging down next to the dampers... are they attached to something for grounding/circuit completion??

 
Old February 2nd, 2017 Feb 2, 2017 3:37:09 PM -   #101 (permalink)
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Default Re: R3000 P600 Dampers instead of cartridges?

Here's how I did it:





 
Old February 2nd, 2017 Feb 2, 2017 3:53:22 PM -   #102 (permalink)
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Default Re: R3000 P600 Dampers instead of cartridges?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rikreations
Here's how I did it:
Thanks for that...

I decided to wedge the motor casing open and pulled the whole switch out (I thought it had to be cut/spliced the way people were talking)... did you do the same?

Does the switch need to be open (natural) or closed (forced)? It seems I missed the tutorial on this one... glad I stumbled on the convo above before I put this back together.

 
Old February 2nd, 2017 Feb 2, 2017 3:59:08 PM -   #103 (permalink)
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Default Re: R3000 P600 Dampers instead of cartridges?

Closed. And because it kept on opening, the printer was always giving an error when starting up.
That's why I taped it and sticked it to that corner
 
Old February 2nd, 2017 Feb 2, 2017 4:21:09 PM -   #104 (permalink)
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Default Re: R3000 P600 Dampers instead of cartridges?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rikreations
Closed. And because it kept on opening, the printer was always giving an error when starting up.
That's why I taped it and sticked it to that corner
Thanks for sharing this info, I'm sure others will be happy to find it in the future!

I have ONE more question, if you have the moment... I think I saw someone else mention it earlier in this thread as well, but nobody answered:

How are you connecting to the ink bags to the DX4 dampers?

I have these tall dampers and the nipple inside them is TAPERED (see pic below, nipple gets fatter the lower down it goes)... so the tubing size that fits nicely on the BAG nipple, doesn't stay nicely on the DAMPER nipple.

It literally slides itself off, even with the locknut it's not very trustworthy. :/


Just curious if I just have a crappy set of dampers? Is there one with a STRAIGHT nipple (like the DX7)... or are you just dealing with the problem and being extra careful?

Here's mine, it's a clear / double-tall... wondering if there's a better option out there?

 
Old February 2nd, 2017 Feb 2, 2017 5:22:03 PM -   #105 (permalink)
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Default Re: R3000 P600 Dampers instead of cartridges?

I don't have any problems with the dampers, they fit quite good, but they don't look like yours.
These are the dampers in the printhead: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10-p...608.0.0.DQGXUz
And these are the dampers replacing the ink cartridges: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10pc...608.0.0.SChzXH





 






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