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[DIY DTG] R3000 P600 Dampers instead of cartridges?

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Old August 2nd, 2016 Aug 2, 2016 7:08:37 PM -   #61 (permalink)
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Ha! I'm getting my M Link demo in a few days! I can ride my bike to M&R headquarters they're so close.

I'm going to try going from the ink bags straight to the DX7 dampers and skip the entire ink bay. I'll leave carts in there for the chip reading.

Maybe this will help me with never having to touch those P600 dampers again. I hate those things.
 
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Old August 2nd, 2016 Aug 2, 2016 7:17:01 PM -   #62 (permalink)
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Also I can put the double size ink carts in the ink bay now so ink resets should occur half as often!
 
Old August 3rd, 2016 Aug 3, 2016 6:32:25 AM -   #63 (permalink)
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Default Re: R3000 P600 Dampers instead of cartridges?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgabby
Yes you can, some already done it.

I may do it as well, maybe, unless I get an M-link
It is very very easy to do.
Hi jgabby,
What is M-link?

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Old August 3rd, 2016 Aug 3, 2016 7:20:34 AM -   #64 (permalink)
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Default Re: R3000 P600 Dampers instead of cartridges?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wavelock
Hi jgabby,
What is M-link?

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An industrial DTG machine,
if we factor downtime, maintenance on smaller model, then M-Link is not that expansive...

Whatch my video -->
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KS27-gcF-Y
 
Old August 3rd, 2016 Aug 3, 2016 7:25:20 AM -   #65 (permalink)
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Default Re: R3000 P600 Dampers instead of cartridges?

Keep in mind if you skip the ink bay and run ink lines directly to the R3000 / P600 dampers on the head you are bypassing the pressurized system.

That system cures 2 major problems that older models like the r2880 had:

1.) Inconsistent ink flow depending on environmental factors and atmospheric pressue
2.) Keeping the end user from being able to easily flood the printhead with ink and short out the ribbon cables and mainboard.
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Old August 3rd, 2016 Aug 3, 2016 7:51:51 AM -   #66 (permalink)
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Default Re: R3000 P600 Dampers instead of cartridges?

Quote:
Originally Posted by treefox2118
Ha! I'm getting my M Link demo in a few days! I can ride my bike to M&R headquarters they're so close.

I'm going to try going from the ink bags straight to the DX7 dampers and skip the entire ink bay. I'll leave carts in there for the chip reading.

Maybe this will help me with never having to touch those P600 dampers again. I hate those things.
Brian,

If your still using the ink carts to the ink bay setup, I would advise to change that to the DX4 dampers that Jgabby has shown on this thread. The carts also have a mesh filter in them and that is a choke point where ink will build up and cause issues. We moved to the dampers at the ink bay and have had much less headaches since. We have not fully changed over to the DX7 dampers at the printhead yet but are running image armor ink in one machine and dupont ink in another to test ink issues.
 
Old August 3rd, 2016 Aug 3, 2016 8:23:45 AM -   #67 (permalink)
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Default Re: R3000 P600 Dampers instead of cartridges?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PirateLife
Brian,

If your still using the ink carts to the ink bay setup, I would advise to change that to the DX4 dampers that Jgabby has shown on this thread. The carts also have a mesh filter in them and that is a choke point where ink will build up and cause issues. We moved to the dampers at the ink bay and have had much less headaches since. We have not fully changed over to the DX7 dampers at the printhead yet but are running image armor ink in one machine and dupont ink in another to test ink issues.
My CISS carts have that same mesh and that's a major choke point as well but if I have to replace them I also throw out $2 in ink each time. It adds up since those little import carts can fail after a week sometimes. $3 for the cart, $2 in ink, it all adds up.

Right now my big issue is consistent white channel losses that I've boiled down to the printhead dampers failing. It might be because of Image Armor ink. I am considering putting Dupont in my second printer as well and comparing them to see if that's the case. I really really really hate those printhead dampers because they aren't a 5 minute swap to replace.
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Old August 3rd, 2016 Aug 3, 2016 8:27:47 AM -   #68 (permalink)
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Default Re: R3000 P600 Dampers instead of cartridges?

Quote:
Originally Posted by abmcdan
Keep in mind if you skip the ink bay and run ink lines directly to the R3000 / P600 dampers on the head you are bypassing the pressurized system.
1.) Inconsistent ink flow depending on environmental factors and atmospheric pressue
2.) Keeping the end user from being able to easily flood the printhead with ink and short out the ribbon cables and mainboard.
With many many many hours and days behind this machine, I don't see the improvement of pressurized ink delivery.
A tiny air bubble, and the system DO NOT WORK at all.

1.)
I even think it is a big disadvantage when it comes to maintenance, you need liters and liters of water to just clean the white side.
But it is very easy to disassemble, but it means more time to clean.

2.)
If you have dx7, then no risk, for extra care, you have room to put and ink pad over the head ribbon cable.
Anyway with the current system, it is easy to flood as well, it you don't place correctly the dampers assy.
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Old August 3rd, 2016 Aug 3, 2016 8:31:41 AM -   #69 (permalink)
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Default Re: R3000 P600 Dampers instead of cartridges?

Quote:
Originally Posted by treefox2118
I really really really hate those printhead dampers because they aren't a 5 minute swap to replace.
Swap a DX7 in less than 10 minutes, with no depressurization at all and barely no ink loss...
 
Old August 3rd, 2016 Aug 3, 2016 8:37:30 AM -   #70 (permalink)
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Default Re: R3000 P600 Dampers instead of cartridges?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgabby
An industrial DTG machine,
if we factor downtime, maintenance on smaller model, then M-Link is not that expansive...

Whatch my video -->
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KS27-gcF-Y
Nice video!
How much is this M link printer?

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Old August 3rd, 2016 Aug 3, 2016 9:43:23 AM -   #71 (permalink)
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Default Re: R3000 P600 Dampers instead of cartridges?

wavelock: the Gen4 Ricoh head version is $40,000+ and the Gen5 Ricoh head version is $72,000+.
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Old August 3rd, 2016 Aug 3, 2016 10:24:53 AM -   #72 (permalink)
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Default Re: R3000 P600 Dampers instead of cartridges?

Quote:
Originally Posted by treefox2118
wavelock: the Gen4 Ricoh head version is $40,000+ and the Gen5 Ricoh head version is $72,000+.
Careful Guys,

I have a Anajet MP5 here that we still use running Gen4 Ricoh heads and they are quite expensive. I can show you the 10 printheads and 8 maintenance stations we have sitting here in our shop we have had to replace in the 4 yrs we have run this machine. Don't get me wrong, it's still making us money but the extreme repair costs could put a person out of business if not careful. We have to baby this machine just as much as the 3 spectras we have. The exact difference for me between the machines is if a spectra craps out in a yr I can throw it in the trash as ROI is very quick with low repair and part costs. The anajet was the price of a car and replacement parts are very expensive and zero tech to repair the unit if down as anajet will tell you to send it back for repair. We would have lost our *** if I were not mechanical enough the tear into the machine myself and fix it when it went down which is often. I believe dtg is a very tough business for any novice or someone not willing to roll up their sleeves and learn roll with the punches. All of my machines have some problem with them all the time but we are able to limp along. One thing I will never do again is depend on a single machine to survive in DTG no matter what any manufacturer tells me.
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Old August 3rd, 2016 Aug 3, 2016 10:50:23 AM -   #73 (permalink)
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Default Re: R3000 P600 Dampers instead of cartridges?

@PirateLife -- that was a HUGE worry of mine when I first contacted M Link. But a few things I've discovered since then:

1. M&R's headquarters is 10 minutes from my shop. I could walk there in under an hour if I wanted to. They have technicians in-house. I originally considered Brother because the Brother tech lives 5-10 minutes from me also, but the Brother ink price is ludicrous.

2. I've spoken to 4 M Link owners in the past 2 weeks, none who were suggested from M Link. All 4 had never had any DTG experience before and all 4 of them have been running strong for months or longer. They're all making money with no downtime and none of them are DTG dudes from before.

3. The Ricoh Gen4 is a scary printhead for sure, and costly at $1700 a pop x6-8. On the flip side, if it is treated well, it won't have those issues. I know a few folks with Gen4s (not Anajet) who swear by them completely. Printhead Doctor also makes a cleaning station for it and I love the Printhead Doctor for my solvent printers. It really makes a difference.

4. Kothari RIP. It's my favorite. I wish Kothari sold the P600 RIP to anyone, it's hands down the best RIP in the industry and slams CAD link and the Russian one like a wrestler against a grandmother.
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Old August 3rd, 2016 Aug 3, 2016 12:44:41 PM -   #74 (permalink)
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Default Re: R3000 P600 Dampers instead of cartridges?

@jgabby & @PirateLife -- when you replace the stock P600 upper dampers above the printhead, what do you do to get ink flowing again? I just replaced 2 of them and now I can't figure out what's the right way to get ink flowing.

Do I prime them with a syringe? Run some CL3 cleans?
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Old August 3rd, 2016 Aug 3, 2016 2:20:59 PM -   #75 (permalink)
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Default Re: R3000 P600 Dampers instead of cartridges?

Quote:
Originally Posted by treefox2118
@jgabby & @PirateLife -- when you replace the stock P600 upper dampers above the printhead, what do you do to get ink flowing again? I just replaced 2 of them and now I can't figure out what's the right way to get ink flowing.

Do I prime them with a syringe? Run some CL3 cleans?
You shouldn't have had to replace the dampers in less than 6 months of having the printer. I'm assuming your using the printers often but what ink do you have installed? I've never had to replace the dampers once in the almost 2 years of having a 3000 or in the 600.
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