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[DIY DTG] New Gimp White Underbase with 3 Color Composite Printing

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Old October 25th, 2011 Oct 25, 2011 1:41:03 PM -   #331 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Gimp White Underbase with 3 Color Composite Printing

Quote:
Originally Posted by german13
I was very optimistic for changes in this however after seeing what the sign printers went thru and there search for the same with a white ink..the out look is dismal at best-they were in search of a white for inkjet far longer than dtg has been around... hopefully some genius will invent an alternative
I'm wondering if a ratio of the current ink and this new ink might be the trick and perhaps some dispersant. Or, perhaps a thickening agent of some sort...

Thinking out loud...

Bob ?;O)
 
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Old October 25th, 2011 Oct 25, 2011 1:42:07 PM -   #332 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Gimp White Underbase with 3 Color Composite Printing

Quote:
Originally Posted by german13
the ink chemistry is the same regardless of viscosity or printhead brand, so no printer is better than another in regards to using the current white ink chemistry.. they will all have the same clog issues and high price..
I thought the Ricoh was GUARANTEED not to clog... What has changed?

Bob ?;O)
 
Old October 25th, 2011 Oct 25, 2011 1:44:26 PM -   #333 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Gimp White Underbase with 3 Color Composite Printing

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Originally Posted by colorfinger
I'm wondering if a ratio of the current ink and this new ink might be the trick and perhaps some dispersant. Or, perhaps a thickening agent of some sort...

Thinking out loud...

Bob ?;O)
I have no clue i have been thru my share of print heads, so im reluctant to try it.. If you do any testing let me know your findings!!
 
 
Old October 25th, 2011 Oct 25, 2011 1:50:59 PM -   #334 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Gimp White Underbase with 3 Color Composite Printing

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Originally Posted by german13
I have no clue i have been thru my share of print heads, so im reluctant to try it.. If you do any testing let me know your findings!!
Time to go dumpster diving for low end Epsons...

Bob ?;O)
 
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Old October 25th, 2011 Oct 25, 2011 1:51:49 PM -   #335 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Gimp White Underbase with 3 Color Composite Printing

Quote:
Originally Posted by colorfinger
I thought the Ricoh was GUARANTEED not to clog... What has changed?

Bob ?;O)
you can make any printer not clog by printing white everyday!! however this is the problem if you dont have the volume.. On top of that it comes down to the cost associated with printing white so it has a lot of evils currently.. regardless i dont know to many diyers that will hack up a 1000 dollar printer? additionally any new brand will need a rip developed, this is not an easy task from what i have been told its quite an expensive task.. you would basically be starting from sqaure one with a different brand printer...
 
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Old October 25th, 2011 Oct 25, 2011 1:52:58 PM -   #336 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Gimp White Underbase with 3 Color Composite Printing

I sent out an email to Dupont lets see what they say?
 
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Old October 25th, 2011 Oct 25, 2011 2:02:39 PM -   #337 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Gimp White Underbase with 3 Color Composite Printing

all the info i have relayed is straight from dupont.. (Grant French) I have tested several dupont products..Including an inkset dupont sent for for the ricoh!!... I have been thru the trenches on this subject and the conclusion is still the same as far as issues.. cmyk is great white is a P.I.T.A
I guess this is where the bit of pessimism comes in, dupont is a monster company and they have not figured out a non clog solution.. where does this put all the small ink companies? You will find many telling you its a non clog greatest latest white ink, untill you try it.. everyone wants to sell.. my money is on dupont for the most likely to suceede with there resources, but i think this is years in the making yet.. we will see...

Last edited by german13; October 25th, 2011 at 02:08 PM..
 
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Old October 25th, 2011 Oct 25, 2011 2:09:44 PM -   #338 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Gimp White Underbase with 3 Color Composite Printing

Jeff, you have certainly paid your dues... Thanks...

Bob ?;O)
 
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Old October 25th, 2011 Oct 25, 2011 6:43:03 PM -   #339 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Gimp White Underbase with 3 Color Composite Printing

Hi Colorfinger,

In Gutenprint I can see under the Output Tab the settings for the Density is Maximum of 2 for the CMYK and Maximum 8 for the Density.

Is there a way we can edit the maximum? In what xml file I can see this?

Thanks in advance
 
Old October 25th, 2011 Oct 25, 2011 7:14:28 PM -   #340 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Gimp White Underbase with 3 Color Composite Printing

Jeff, is the 3 centipoise for claria printers and 4 for durabrite? It does not sound far fetched for someone to come up with some kind of thickening agent. Maybe its just a matter of time.

As to brother dtgs, do they have a completely different base than their desktops?



 
Old October 25th, 2011 Oct 25, 2011 7:18:18 PM -   #341 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Gimp White Underbase with 3 Color Composite Printing

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndako
Hi Colorfinger,

In Gutenprint I can see under the Output Tab the settings for the Density is Maximum of 2 for the CMYK and Maximum 8 for the Density.

Is there a way we can edit the maximum? In what xml file I can see this?

Thanks in advance
Not sure... I will be looking at it again this Thursday and should be uploading a new version. Feel free to dig around. Start with printers.xml. It will tell you which file to start looking at.

Bob ?;O)
 
Old October 25th, 2011 Oct 25, 2011 7:19:32 PM -   #342 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Gimp White Underbase with 3 Color Composite Printing

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroJames
Jeff, is the 3 centipoise for claria printers and 4 for durabrite? It does not sound far fetched for someone to come up with some kind of thickening agent. Maybe its just a matter of time.

As to brother dtgs, do they have a completely different base than their desktops?
Angel, we'll get it right soon enough... Thanks for the can do attitude.

Bob ?;O)
 
Old October 25th, 2011 Oct 25, 2011 8:37:46 PM -   #343 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Gimp White Underbase with 3 Color Composite Printing

Quote:
Originally Posted by colorfinger
For anyone who is interested in helping us with GutenRIP™ I will be starting a Sourceforge effort. Please PM me if you have programming experience and want to be involved. I will be writing the plugin in C#... Here are the steps to getting the environment setup in Linux. Gimp plugins are best created in Linux and cross compiled in Linux. They are very difficult to create on Windows... Here is where I am at now...

system configuration notes

Ubuntu 10.11 Desktop

Download and install the necessary components

Code:
sudo apt-get -t oneiric-backports install gimp
sudo apt-get -t oneiric-backports install mono-complete
sudo apt-get -t oneiric-backports install monodevelope*
sudo apt-get -t oneiric-backports install libgimp2.0-dev
sudo apt-get -t oneiric-backports install wingp*
WARNING: The wingp is a long install but will make sure you have everything you need to compile for Windows.

Download gimp-sharp-0.17:

Gimp# - Browse /gimp-sharp/0.17 at SourceForge.net

This version of Gimp# will work with GIMP 2.6.

Building Gimp# is easy:

Code:
tar xvf gimp-sharp-0.17.tar
cd gimp-sharp-0.17
./configure
make
sudo make install
You may want to read the INSTALL file for Gimp Sharp. The documentation is sparse but the there are some fairly good examples.

Bob ?;O)
Just a bump to keep this issue up front...
 
Old October 25th, 2011 Oct 25, 2011 9:00:05 PM -   #344 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Gimp White Underbase with 3 Color Composite Printing

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroJames
Jeff, is the 3 centipoise for claria printers and 4 for durabrite? It does not sound far fetched for someone to come up with some kind of thickening agent. Maybe its just a matter of time.

As to brother dtgs, do they have a completely different base than their desktops?

The 3 centopoise ink is under developement from dupont for the epson 4900 printer that was recently introduced.. epson dropped the viscosity of ink for this printer and they keep going to smaller drop sizes which is not ideal for dtg printers...

most other epson printers run the same viscosity which is around 4/5 centipoise including durabrite/claria/ ultrachrome epson inksets..

I think people are confused with the ink viscosity in regards to wanting to raise the new 3.0 up or add a thickening agent? theres no need we have a white ink currently with the dupont 5000 series that is the correct rating... The issue is the white does not stay in suspension well and then turns to rubber blobs that clog heads.. it needs to be printed and used fast to avoid this which is very hard to do for start ups/ low volume printers and cost is outrageous per print for white.. Its the ink chemistry itself that needs a new formula of some type to avoid this..

most think its an easy task, its not.. lets remember how big that company dupont is and there resources they havnt done it yet...

If you remember back there was another big contender that used to supply dtg ink Rohm&Hass they bailed on it a few years back.... Really, its not some simple tweak or it would have been fixed along time ago.. hopefully these master chemists will come up with a magic white for dtg at some point.. cross your fingers...

P.s brothers printers were build ground up specifically for dtg and they use the spectra industrial heads... i dont beleive they even have an inkjet office printer? i think there all laser printers/copiers..
 
Old October 25th, 2011 Oct 25, 2011 9:45:13 PM -   #345 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Gimp White Underbase with 3 Color Composite Printing

Quote:
Originally Posted by german13
The issue is the white does not stay in suspension well and then turns to rubber blobs that clog heads.. it needs to be printed and used fast to avoid this which is very hard to do for start ups/ low volume printers and cost is outrageous per print for white.. Its the ink chemistry itself that needs a new formula of some type to avoid this..
Jeff, How much ink needs to be printed daily to keep the head from drying out? I would think a one inch square of white would be sufficient.

What's the downside of replacing the white carts with carts of cleaning solution when not it use?

I realize that there are problems with white DTG Ink and even the commercial DTGs suffer this problem.

If you're going to print white with your DTG this is just an issue you have to learn to handle it. That comes with the territory. Our efforts should be to educate the DIY DTG printer to handle this problem.

Again, the rate of return on cost is better for the DIY DTG printer.

So, let's jack the cost of printing white with DTG to about $3.00 a shirt for ink and pre-treatment. I can buy a large black T @ 2.75 so my total cost is $5.75. I'm used to a market where the customer would buy the shirt at a 50% markup and then on top of that they would pay $8 - $25.00 for an airbrush T... The commercial DTGs suggest selling their T's @ about $14.00. So if I just mark everything up 50% I'm still selling the shirt for less at $10.75.

The commercial DTG has to make a payment and a portion of that profit will go to that effort. I don't have that overhead. I don't have to pay for that silly commercial DTG and I can still charge the same price.

Your assuming that everyone will have little to no volume... If I have a storefront I just might print several shirts a day. No problem with white ink drying out.

I know your frustrated by the white ink but there's no need to be an alarmist. It's a manageable problem.

Thanks,

Bob ?;O)
 






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