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[DIY DTG] INK.. water based pigment ink, eco solvent ink? what are there differences?

 
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Old July 18th, 2010 Jul 18, 2010 10:47:36 AM -   #1 (permalink)
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Default INK.. water based pigment ink, eco solvent ink? what are there differences?

I have been using dtkinks.com inks...with awesome results.. im told this is dupont ink!

I have recently ran accross or heard in some forums of eco solvent ink? what is the differences between these type inks?

additionally i watched a vid from a t shirt company that air brushes part of a shirts design and then prints with the dupont ink on a dtg...

why is there no one pass ink for darks... (printing everything including the white)say like an airbrush ink that is used in a dtg? is this possible

basically i see the issue as the white underbase is needed to make the color over vibrant..i took some white spray paint and put it to black shirt it covers great..why cant this be done with the printer the consistency of the ink and spray paint are the same! is airbrushing shirts not some type of paint?

anyone with any knowledge of this... do you think this will be reality for dtgers some point in the future?

i think i might have some spray paint mixed up in the cmyk and white, and run it thru the old 1100 test horse to see what happens. or perhaps even the 1400 i have.. they are expendable..

I Think this will be my next goal if someone doesnt give me a good explanation why this cant be done? I think it can with some experminting and a good manufacturers experience.. a printer is esentially a high tech spry booth? is it not? this needs to happen!

Last edited by german13; July 18th, 2010 at 11:00 AM..
 
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Old July 18th, 2010 Jul 18, 2010 11:06:21 AM -   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: INK.. water based pigment ink, eco solvent ink? what are there differences?

Eco-Solvent ink can be printed on coated and uncoated media, the main issue with this ink formulation is that the ink needs to be heat set to cure instantly, otherwise it will bleed. Also the material that needs to be printed has to be preheated to 42-50 degrees Celsius.

Eco solvent inks are used in large format printers, Roland, Mimaki, Mutoh etc.
 
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Old July 18th, 2010 Jul 18, 2010 11:42:01 AM -   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: INK.. water based pigment ink, eco solvent ink? what are there differences?

Quote:
Originally Posted by grafixhenk
Eco-Solvent ink can be printed on coated and uncoated media, the main issue with this ink formulation is that the ink needs to be heat set to cure instantly, otherwise it will bleed. Also the material that needs to be printed has to be preheated to 42-50 degrees Celsius.

Eco solvent inks are used in large format printers, Roland, Mimaki, Mutoh etc.

I'm betting the solution is in some type of airbrush paint ran thru the epson..

heck we got the airbrushed shirts for the kids at great america theme park about two years ago and they still where em, with no fade.. that i can tell!

wish i new a good manufacturer that was a dealer for this paint-ink or what ever they use? i know the paint they did my motor cycle with has the consistancy of water..i watched em mix it! Why wont this work or has no one tried it? I'm willing to toast a few printers to find a solution! ANY SUGGESTIONS! anyone in the chicago area want to team up on some testing-research?

someone will have a solution for this..it cant be rocket science to get a single pass print on dark?

Last edited by german13; July 18th, 2010 at 11:51 AM..
 
 
Old July 18th, 2010 Jul 18, 2010 11:51:54 AM -   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: INK.. water based pigment ink, eco solvent ink? what are there differences?

Quote:
Originally Posted by german13
I'm betting the solution is in some type of airbrush paint ran thru the epson..

heck we got the airbrushed shirts for the kids at great america theme park about two years ago and they still where em, with no fade.. that i can tell!

wish i new a good manufacturer that was a dealer for this paint-ink or what ever they use? i know the paint they did my motor cycle with has the consistancy of water..i watched em mix it! Why wont this work or has no one tried it? I'm willing to toast a few printers to find a solution! ANY SUGGESTIONS!

someone will have a solution for this..it cant be rocket science to get a single pass print on dark?
The limitations are the printheads and the size of the particles in the ink pigment if the particles are large ( good coverage) the head nozzles are too small hence the clogging. Also an airbrush uses pressure to disperse the ink which a printhead can never do
 
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Old July 18th, 2010 Jul 18, 2010 12:16:34 PM -   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: INK.. water based pigment ink, eco solvent ink? what are there differences?

Quote:
Originally Posted by grafixhenk
The limitations are the printheads and the size of the particles in the ink pigment if the particles are large ( good coverage) the head nozzles are too small hence the clogging. Also an airbrush uses pressure to disperse the ink which a printhead can never do
Isnt the piezo technology a pump of sorts? electric pump?

it sprays for sure i watch this during the head cleans!!

My thinking is if the consistency of a paint material is the same as the ink which i know its darn close..the paint coverage has got to be better..

i sprayed the white dtg ink thru a paint sprayer, and sprayed the white spray paint both on dark shirt side by side..the spray paint coverage and vibrancy is a million fold better (and no pre treat)... with nearly the same consistency by eye (no lab test) im sure the printer can spray this stuff.. but you would need the colors mixed to match the ink gamut for testing?

also from what i understand this paint is not water base.. so i would assume it has a alcohol or thinner base, wouldnt this relieve the clogging issues of the white? it might not smell the best but with proper ventalation that issue is moot..

Last edited by german13; July 18th, 2010 at 12:28 PM..
 
Old July 18th, 2010 Jul 18, 2010 12:31:10 PM -   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: INK.. water based pigment ink, eco solvent ink? what are there differences?

It is all in the pigments, even though the consistancy seems the same there is more of a carrier with the DTG inks to make it flow so there is less pigment and or the pigment size is smaller. Yes the printheads do fire the nozzles but you can not compare the pressure from a print nozzle to a spray can or paint gun. There are printheads with larger nozzles but that would change the whole concept of an epson/ DTG conversion
 
Old July 18th, 2010 Jul 18, 2010 12:35:17 PM -   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: INK.. water based pigment ink, eco solvent ink? what are there differences?

Quote:
Originally Posted by grafixhenk
It is all in the pigments, even though the consistancy seems the same there is more of a carrier with the DTG inks to make it flow so there is less pigment and or the pigment size is smaller. Yes the printheads do fire the nozzles but you can not compare the pressure from a print nozzle to a spray can or paint gun. There are printheads with larger nozzles but that would change the whole concept of an epson/ DTG conversion
I'm curious if this has been pursued by anyone!

I'm willing to toast a printer for some testing, but i think i will wait a bit for more replies to see if anyone has tried this... before doing so

Innovation and can do attitudes are the norm around here..lol
 
Old July 18th, 2010 Jul 18, 2010 12:40:55 PM -   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: INK.. water based pigment ink, eco solvent ink? what are there differences?

I can send you some different ink formulations to try out, just use the rip to print the channels seperate but I am pretty sure you will clog the heads on the heavy pigmented ink.
 
Old July 18th, 2010 Jul 18, 2010 12:53:31 PM -   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: INK.. water based pigment ink, eco solvent ink? what are there differences?

Quote:
Originally Posted by grafixhenk
I can send you some different ink formulations to try out, just use the rip to print the channels seperate but I am pretty sure you will clog the heads on the heavy pigmented ink.

thanks..

if its possible with the existing epson head..

i will figure out a solution... may take a bit, and a few brighter minds than mine but we will give it a shot anyway
 
Old July 18th, 2010 Jul 18, 2010 1:39:28 PM -   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: INK.. water based pigment ink, eco solvent ink? what are there differences?

Quote:
Originally Posted by grafixhenk
I can send you some different ink formulations to try out, just use the rip to print the channels seperate but I am pretty sure you will clog the heads on the heavy pigmented ink.

P.S i sent you some info to your email..
let me know if you got it...
 
Old July 18th, 2010 Jul 18, 2010 2:33:03 PM -   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: INK.. water based pigment ink, eco solvent ink? what are there differences?

Got it, will send your stuff on Monday

Thanks
 
Old August 19th, 2010 Aug 19, 2010 2:31:05 AM -   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: INK.. water based pigment ink, eco solvent ink? what are there differences?

Did you get anywhere with testing the ink yet.

I have been looking for a possible A3/4 option for solvent printing on to vinyl but have not found anything yet that will tolerate the solvent ink's.
 
Old August 28th, 2010 Aug 28, 2010 1:03:01 AM -   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: INK.. water based pigment ink, eco solvent ink? what are there differences?

I was considering this too. If eco solvent ink can pass through epson heads without melting them then all we need to make are the heating elements to cure it.
 
Old August 28th, 2010 Aug 28, 2010 5:08:44 AM -   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: INK.. water based pigment ink, eco solvent ink? what are there differences?

I have been doing some research on using ecosol ink in small epsons a while ago.
What i have found it until now is :

there is a (chinese) supplier for eco solvent inks which are meant to be used with an r1900.
?????????????? ???? hongsam
I wasnt able to find any users / reviews about this inkset. However i am not sure how this ink will perform , as eco solvet inks require a heated surface to be applied on. See an explanation here : Moreover i think a have found something very interesting, but this has not been confirmed yet :
The Epson r1900 Printhead seems to be an ecosolvent capable printhead, and is beeing used on some LFP's (mimaki and mutoh) , the Epson partnr. is : F186000 , seems to be the same as the dx5
Now before you fill your carts with some eco solvent inks, you should consider the fact that the capping station , the wiper blades and maybe some other parts were not designed to get in touch with solvents. so give it a google , and search for a capping station for the Mimaki JV 33 , which is a solvent printer. As far as i can see they are exactly the same (not the material but the form design) The Mimaki uses dampers , those dampers can be used an an epson r1900 with the help of ink chipboard. So chagning all those critical parts should allow us to convert an r1900 into a small format solvent printer, you will just have to find a way to apply some heat to the vinyl before it gets printed and afterwards to dry the inks. however the heat has just to be a little over 30° celsius, so this shouldnt be a big issue. Finally we will need a RIP beacuase the inkset will uses different colors.
 
Old August 28th, 2010 Aug 28, 2010 6:39:39 AM -   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: INK.. water based pigment ink, eco solvent ink? what are there differences?

Great info Zanone thanks for that the problem here is getting hold of an R1900 at the moment.
 






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