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-   -   Mission accomplished "license to thrill" (https://www.t-shirtforums.com/diy-dtg/t120740.html)

102557 August 6th, 2010 04:34 PM

Re: Mission accomplished "license to thrill"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by essen48183 (Post 738549)
O.K. Tore into it today. ( looks like someone stuck a grenade in my printer ) Jeff is correct, you can't fit a gear or pulley onto that shaft of any size. But you can fit it on the front most paper roller. That shaft is stepped down to compensate for rubber rings. it spins 0.814814 times for every one time the PF shaft turns.
So using that shaft as our origin... the new numbers for XL series timing belts are:
30T on that front shaft belted to a 12T on the conveyor shaft.
15T (x4) on all the conveyor ends
I'll be trying a 63" belt (x2) for the platen conveyors and a 36" for the drive belt (just a guess, both will be easy to change later)


(also jeff, there is a .637 10T and a .7 11T but they are smaller bore holes... but there is room to machine them larger for this low horsepower application.)
This gear arrangement actually is better... in the end the difference between the original paper feeder and the platen speed is only .0003" per inch of travel (and it should fit in the printer which is a plus :-) ). Unfortunately my guy didn't have all the components in stock and the stock shaft holes were not 5/16", so I placed an order and had the ones that were off machined with the proper 5/16" bores.

very cool... just got home 7:00 pm here central..

i will try and give you a call in about an hour.. we will compare notes:p

i have my new base fully cnc ready with exception of a few internal components(brackets) its a portable version in black polyurethane i even cnc the t-dozer tracks in it..lol i will try and post a pic later ..she likes her new duds and is on here way to sublime t shirt printing..;)

102557 August 6th, 2010 05:10 PM

Re: Mission accomplished "license to thrill"
 
Heres the pics...:)

If you think this is cool, wait till you see the cover etc...;)

this is fully cnc fabbed out of lazer cut flat stock so its tolerances are near perfect if not so... there are no external welds all internal:D the access panels are on the side now rather than the top.. i still have some internals to add and mount the access panels... i have put my table undermount on hold.. have alot of interest in the printer and I wanted to do a fully portable unit because i think most will want this over a stationary model, and it will be ready to demo anywhere for interested parties in the event this project becomes something more than the diy.. she will be ready to rock:p we are getting serious now..

i just had to add the tracks, lol. thats how it got its name t dozer... had to go with black..my favorite colors black and white..lol that includes most things i own or wear aswell..

oh!!! also the white base is spoken for someone emailed today and is picking it up tommorro..

McCrockett August 6th, 2010 05:29 PM

Re: Mission accomplished "license to thrill"
 
Great job, German! Man, I'm struggling to keep up with you guys. German, did you mention that EK rip somehow allows the user to adjust according to the pulleys he or she may be using? I may just have to wait and see how your designs turn out and then beg for the plans... I'm afraid I'm having trouble following all the belt and pulley technical jargons.:)

102557 August 6th, 2010 05:42 PM

Re: Mission accomplished "license to thrill"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by McCrockett (Post 738607)
Great job, German! Man, I'm struggling to keep up with you guys. German, did you mention that EK rip somehow allows the user to adjust according to the pulleys he or she may be using? I may just have to wait and see how your designs turn out and then beg for the plans... I'm afraid I'm having trouble following all the belt and pulley technical jargons.:)

the numbers are a pain to calculate but most suppliers will do so for you... i have trouble with this also.. i generally calculate it by size instead...

regardless you will need a pulley of somesort (UNLESS YOU GO WITH THE CONVEYOR BELT WITH THE BELT DIRECTLY OVER THE 5/16THS DRIVE ROD)..

Additionally- yes ek will correct for your larger pulleys etc for this aswell, with there table feed adjustment feature..

im just ingesting more knowledge from essen he seems well versed on these calculations.. i usually have a friend of mine whos engineer calculate mine or do it by size in fractions or caliper measurements to fractions.. so im just getting it close to factory settings and correcting with the ek table feed adjustment, if needed;)

in fact i have corrected a .901ish stand alone (1to1) with ek just testing it... ek rocks for sure.

102557 August 6th, 2010 08:33 PM

Re: Mission accomplished "license to thrill"
 
essen they have a 12t-.764 3/8 belt @ 5/16ths bore.. dont know if this will help you but you can get any thing here just about...

plus theres a chart for others to check out...


essen48183 August 7th, 2010 07:37 AM

Re: Mission accomplished "license to thrill"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by german13 (Post 738597)
Heres the pics...:)

If you think this is cool, wait till you see the cover etc...;)

this is fully cnc fabbed out of lazer cut flat stock so its tolerances are near perfect if not so... there are no external welds all internal:D the access panels are on the side now rather than the top.. i still have some internals to add and mount the access panels... i have put my table undermount on hold.. have alot of interest in the printer and I wanted to do a fully portable unit because i think most will want this over a stationary model, and it will be ready to demo anywhere for interested parties in the event this project becomes something more than the diy.. she will be ready to rock:p we are getting serious now..

i just had to add the tracks, lol. thats how it got its name t dozer... had to go with black..my favorite colors black and white..lol that includes most things i own or wear aswell..

oh!!! also the white base is spoken for someone emailed today and is picking it up tommorro..

That is first rate work! Sorry my phone battery died last night. Was good talking to you, though.

102557 August 7th, 2010 08:49 AM

Re: Mission accomplished "license to thrill"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by essen48183 (Post 738926)
That is first rate work! Sorry my phone battery died last night. Was good talking to you, though.



essen,

nice talking to you aswell. i like your biz model, additionally you will not have the misprint rate you explained with the 1900 as you did with the 2200. this is what i have been talking about in previous post regarding errors of the epson printers..errors equate to misprints in one fashion or another.. we have had some heated conversations regarding this early on starting out.. i dont think anyone was following my thoughts on that equation...they always said they didnt seem to mind the time or resetting the error after each print with the cost savings of a simplier mod... well you lose those cost savings and more in shirts,ink etc without an error free printer.. to elaborate on what you said about your operator, as you said they dont know how to get it out of error state and get frustrated-you will lose time and money here aswell..

my belief is it all comes down to the quaility of the base and transport system, every thing else is in place for the taking or use of (epson technology) theres plenty of quailty rips and supplys.. so regarding a quality transport and base in my opinion theres only two ways to do this 1. with the conveyor belt like on my original and 2nd. the new one explained last night im sure this will never be matched as far as accuracy and dependability with 0 maintenance no tentioning to deal with:p this especially comes into play when printing at 720 res with the 1900 and above epsons (jerky motion) this eliminates completly any error factor in the print whatsoever. so then the possibility factors go way up (printing at 720 with the white underbase then a 1400 color over or dual 720 etc etc misprint free, this is hard to do (repeat pass at 720 res) with any belt driven drive due to even minimal backlash... im sure this design will be everywhere within a year.. i cant stress enough the craftsman ship of the base platen cannot be sacrificed. from an analogy stand point-as the sights of a gun dictate its accuracy, so does craftmanship of the base platen - transport of dtg printers..:p

i was thinking about the second drive rod you mentioned using (the front paper eject).

I believe its to low into the path of the platen to use it in its original location, (cant get close enough to the print head with the shirt).. you should double check this to make sure before you order any parts..;)

thanks for the explaining the math on the pulley-equation..

i am definetly going with the new drive that i explained to you..cant beleive i didnt think of this before or for that matter anyone else.. i think the issue was that it is so simple..it was overlooked by everyone even commercial designers..:rolleyes: oh also ek rip (chris) got back with me on my requests in 2days they had an update for my testing!!!! it works like a charm, i dont think theres anything that these guys cant do or are not willing to try and do..they have came through every time..

keep me updated on your progress!!!!

102557 August 7th, 2010 05:55 PM

Re: Mission accomplished "license to thrill"
 
we ran some more test on old woody (thats what we call our wood test base) we are testing the self closing slides..:D we dont have our new drive in place so we are using a belt for the testing on a timing pulley connected to the platen...


well the cool news is these self closing percision sliders work like a dream...;) its like you pushed a button and it returns it to the start position.. just awesome... it is using a ???? so that it will not turn the drive or a belt in reverse (returning the platen) just like a free wheel bike!!! this thing works like a commercial printer with these self closers- complete mechanical conversions and no electronics to fuss with..lol AND GET THIS TWO MOVING PARTS OUTSIDE OF ORIGINAL PRINTER DESIGN...IT IS DIRECT DRIVE. NO BELTS TENTIONERS ETC..100% TOOTH TO TOOTH ACCURACY. testing is never a pretty picture but it gets the job done.. additionally i had to have some alterations to the rip- in roll mode the print stops and doesnt eject the platen out to clear the printer.. with a removable platen this is no issue but once you go to a fixed base or platen this becomes one..ek rips largest platen is 19" so you need approx three or more inches to clear the printer for shirt loading they took care of this as usual (ie your 19 platen or print area needs to be approx 22, so it will eject like it does in sheet mode..;)) there are a couple options with the platen itself also, you can still make the platen removable from the base or drive unit if you want..sorta like ONE commercial printer that i just love, or you can simply have a fixed platen.. i beleive i will keep it fixed unless i see a major time increase with it removable.

also i beleive multi-rips platen sizes are configurable?:confused: which is a major bonus if thats what you are using.. if not ek has the solution..

cant wait till i get the new drive and this thing on the new base, this is one of the most impressive-amazing complete mechanical designs that i have ever been apart of. the forums here have been an amazing source of knowledge and its birth place but i dont think it will be the t-dozer's last destination:) just remember you seen it here first....;)

102557 August 8th, 2010 08:14 AM

Re: Mission accomplished "license to thrill"
 
here are the spray nozzles for the pre treat every ones been asking about, they come in different spray patterns, distances, sizes etc.. your set up is plumbed with these in specific locations coupled to a capable pump pluged to a timer or manually shut on and off with a mechanical pressure regulator ..and bam-same results every time...

brand is teejet- they are industrial nozzels and the company has been around along time... http://www.teejet.com/english/home.aspx

http://assets.farmandfleet.com/uploa...ull/181902.jpg

McCrockett August 8th, 2010 11:00 PM

Re: Mission accomplished "license to thrill"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by german13 (Post 739123)

well the cool news is these self closing percision sliders work like a dream...;) its like you pushed a button and it returns it to the start position.. just awesome... it is using a ???? so that it will not turn the drive or a belt in reverse (returning the platen) just like a free wheel bike!!! this thing works like a commercial printer with these self closers- complete mechanical conversions and no electronics to fuss with..lol AND GET THIS TWO MOVING PARTS OUTSIDE OF ORIGINAL PRINTER DESIGN...IT IS DIRECT DRIVE. NO BELTS TENTIONERS ETC..100% TOOTH TO TOOTH ACCURACY. testing is never a pretty picture but it gets the job done.. additionally i had to have some alterations to the rip- in roll mode the print stops and doesnt eject the platen out to clear the printer.. with a removable platen this is no issue but once you go to a fixed base or platen this becomes one..ek rips largest platen is 19" so you need approx three or more inches to clear the printer for shirt loading they took care of this as usual (ie your 19 platen or print area needs to be approx 22, so it will eject like it does in sheet mode..;)) there are a couple options with the platen itself also, you can still make the platen removable from the base or drive unit if you want..sorta like ONE commercial printer that i just love, or you can simply have a fixed platen.. i beleive i will keep it fixed unless i see a major time increase with it removable.

That just sounds absolutely remarkable! I can't wait to see a video.

102557 August 9th, 2010 05:36 PM

Re: Mission accomplished "license to thrill"
 
OK, im having trouble finding a 72 diametral pitch for a 22" rack--> (teethed metal track)

this is needed to match the spur gear--> (teethed flangless pulley) only one will work with the 5/16ths shaft being reduced to .25 quarter inch or .125 eighth inch -to keep the speed within adjustable range for this set up...

maybe this is why i have never seen this on a dtg?:rolleyes:

if anyone has any leads on this let me know, i have scoured the net and been on the phone 3hrs looking for this part:mad:

i could always have it machined, but i would like to keep it to off the self parts.. i could also use a speed reducer but i do not want to overcomplicate matters either.

if i cant find one going to have to go back to the single belt...it will work the same, just hate the fact i may have to tention it a few times a year..:rolleyes:

help:D

102557 August 9th, 2010 08:26 PM

Re: Mission accomplished "license to thrill"
 
also i wanted to throw this out there!!!! i am getting some conflicting imformation regarding pulley sizes and ratios...

heres what i have been told regarding running a belt with pulleys on the printer from the 5/16ths drive rod..

ok... i have been told all we are doing is transferring power from the drive rod pulley to the idler rod pulley (and using it as a tow rope for the platen).. so if we per say added an 1/2 pulley to the 5/16ths drive rod and you drew a center line thru the pulley and the drive rod, as it turned it would be in the same location at the same time!!! ok then to get a 1 to 1 ratio you would add a 1/2 pulley to the rear idler pulley aswell on a 5/16ths rod..these will turn at axactly the same rate speed together..now remember we are only transfering power to the rear rod to gain the distance to move the platen (belt attached to platen)..

ok now lets say we put a 1/4 pulley on the rear rod..this would make the rear pulley make twice the rotations compared to the front pulley however they are still traveling at the same speed!!!

i think the ratios only come into play if we were powering a wheel in the rear-smaller pulley faster wheel larger pulley slower wheel!:confused: the smaller pulley would rotate twice as fast as the front!!

but in our case we are only transferring power!!!

now this is how its been explained to me, and i have been told other wise aswell!! like i said previously i have ran two .90ish pulleys together with no issue (i had to correct some banding in the 720 res but i had to do this aswell running a conveyor directly off the 5/16ths rod?) this is due to the jerky motion/firmware of the epson r1900... no issue whatsoever in any other res..

a one to one ratio would be between to separate sources the drive and the idler, you cant calculate the drive and the drive pulley into the equation? as im told..

so im really baffled by the differences of information but as my testing has shown me- no error to print running alike pulleys im assumming this is the correct one?:confused: i also used the website calculator adding to alike pulleys which gave me the one to one, but like i explained earlier i dont think it even has to be 1to 1 since we are just transferring power a less size pulley would rotate more but not at a greater speed!

i will try and get some other input from another engineer tommoro! maybe i can get two like answers/explanations somewhere:rolleyes:

feel free to chime in with any info or theorys you might have we will get to the bottom of this...

here is the link at the bottom..belt calc-if you change the tooth count (pitch) of the pulleys you do not get a 1 to 1 ratio?

http://www.sdp-si.com/Cd/default.htm

34Ford August 10th, 2010 03:41 AM

Re: Mission accomplished "license to thrill"
 
A total waste of my time.

colorfinger August 10th, 2010 11:41 AM

Re: Mission accomplished "license to thrill"
 
Thanks for the memories...

102557 August 10th, 2010 02:45 PM

Re: Mission accomplished "license to thrill"
 
spent the afternoon with two engineers...i beleive i have found the conclusion to this finally... my above post was half correct half incorrect...:confused:

heres how it works.. if you increase the pulley on the pf shaft (drive shaft or pinion shaft correctly stated) it raises the surface speed of the belt by the calculation of the difference between the original 5/16ths shaft and the new pulley pitch..you figure this out by the pie equation and the shaft aand pulley sizes and subtract the difference... (there is where i was wrong or my theory was wrong)

ok the idler pulley that is added to the rear does nothing you can not compensate for the difference in size of the drive shaft by going lower or higher with that timing gear... it will just make its revolutions more or less depending on the size!! BUT THE BELT SURFACE SPEED DOES NOT CHANGE!! this is where i was correct..

so to correct the speed to the original 5/16ths drive completely mechanical you would need a third belt coming of the rear idler (smaller gear off the idler gear to the front) going the distance of the needed platen movement to another pulley of the same specs gearing to original drive speed...

so i asked how did my printer work with my larger gear to an idler gear 1 to 1? the only answer they could come up with is the encoder somehow compensated for the increased speed that it knows where it is supposed to be and when?, with a combination of keeping my pitch to as low as possible to original..basically luck.lol

so i was told to use a shaft reducer from the original 5/16ths bore to a 1/4 or 1/8th shaft with the new gearing pitch to be as close to 5/16ths (.3125)as possible, and this is available just have to check which size shaft would be better to the application.. im told this is the easiest way to complete the task without a third belt!!!

additionally i told them of the software correction (ek rips feed and gap adjust).. i was given specific questions to ask them on how the feature works.. they said if it is done by converting the image i should go with the above.. however if its being done by controling the firmware itself encoder speed etc.. that i should go with the original 5/16ths drive rod the closest pitch diameter pulley to fit it and correct it with the software that this is the best solution... so i have the email in to them regarding the above..

phew that was a mouthful... i will post which direction im going when i get an answer..:D

also regarding the direct drive..powering a rack (teethed metal track) directly from one gear can be done aswell by reducing the shaft the same way.. however the rack and pinion gear (spur gear is more costly) with same results as belt.. this will be a game time decision when i get a reply from ek...


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