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-   -   Mission accomplished "license to thrill" (https://www.t-shirtforums.com/diy-dtg/t120740.html)

sunoracle August 4th, 2010 11:04 PM

Re: Mission accomplished "license to thrill"
 
2 Attachment(s)
Hi Jeff, would you mind show us some pictures about your new style transport system?
I also got some pictures from other DIYer. It has a loose-tight switch. I think a good idea for avoiding the aging of the belt.

102557 August 5th, 2010 02:39 AM

Re: Mission accomplished "license to thrill"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by midwaste (Post 737310)
From one engineer to another....Top notch work. I haven't read through all the details yet, but I love the belt design and working with the firmware.

Enjoy it while you can, because as soon as you get it fine-tuned, you'll be doing nothing but printing shirts, heh.

With regard to your pre-treatment system, the only suggestion I have is to use staggered directional (flat) high-pressure/low volume nozzles for most effective application of solution.

Great job. One of the best threads I have read on TSF, might consider submitting it to Makezine.

thanks for the kind words and ;) on the nozzel app for the pre treat ...

102557 August 5th, 2010 02:42 AM

Re: Mission accomplished "license to thrill"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sunoracle (Post 737315)
Hi Jeff, would you mind show us some pictures about your new style transport system?
I also got some pictures from other DIYer. It has a loose-tight switch. I think a good idea for avoiding the aging of the belt.


i will put some more pics-video up....when we have a functioning working model.

essen48183 August 5th, 2010 10:22 AM

Re: Mission accomplished "license to thrill"
 
Jeff, To solve the mismatch in speeds, I came up with something you might be able to integrate in yours. Leaving the pf shaft/gear/motor/sensor intact on the printer frame. There are several inches on that side you can't print on anyway (where the spit station is.) leaving about 3" of the shaft inboard of the printer frame and placing a timing pulley there that leads to the front (or rear) timing pulley shaft. Probably need a pillow block bearing and a support for that end of the shaft, but it beats the heck out of most designs I've seen. I had to have a reducing gear in there anyways and that led to this realization. My timing gear will be larger on the original partial shaft and smaller on the new shaft. Basically, you could then have just that one belt as the connection between base and platen... leaving opportunities for several different base designs that are interchangeable (or room for improvements).

I'll take a pic tomorrow of what I mean.

102557 August 5th, 2010 01:40 PM

Re: Mission accomplished "license to thrill"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by essen48183 (Post 737623)
Jeff, To solve the mismatch in speeds, I came up with something you might be able to integrate in yours. Leaving the pf shaft/gear/motor/sensor intact on the printer frame. There are several inches on that side you can't print on anyway (where the spit station is.) leaving about 3" of the shaft inboard of the printer frame and placing a timing pulley there that leads to the front (or rear) timing pulley shaft. Probably need a pillow block bearing and a support for that end of the shaft, but it beats the heck out of most designs I've seen. I had to have a reducing gear in there anyways and that led to this realization. My timing gear will be larger on the original partial shaft and smaller on the new shaft. Basically, you could then have just that one belt as the connection between base and platen... leaving opportunities for several different base designs that are interchangeable (or room for improvements).

I'll take a pic tomorrow of what I mean.


I get what your saying...here is some pics i posted with an original wood design a few months back, in the 1100-1900 platen designs. there is a pencil diagram on one of the pics..i think this is what your describing...

i have something similar to the original in the works;) there are a few issues with this on my design with location to other parts in the base, also it is a is a larger foot print this way aswell im trying to stay away from that... there are certain aspects that will work with belt and conveyor with this, there are also some limitations to the design itself..

also a big thing to consider any connection from a belt to a platen limits you to sheet mode with the 1900... this is why when its in roll mode if you move the belt or conveyor it will reset it self to the location it was moved from...this has something to do with the roll cut feature where it will move the paper out 4 inches approx to let you cut it at print end:) then it will move back. this is to keep from wasting the 4 inches approx of paper?:);):D

thats why this is a tough build with the 1900 from design to designing around its functions sensors etc..but i have this babys..number;) i stared and played with this thing a rock solid three months full time..:rolleyes:


Attached Thumbnails
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essen48183 August 5th, 2010 03:30 PM

Re: Mission accomplished "license to thrill"
 
sort of but not really. The biggest advantage to what I am talking about is leaving it all in the printer (PF motor, PF roller/encoding wheel, PF sensor) in their original mounting holes, just cutting the shaft and putting a timing pulley of the proper size on the cut off end of it (and a bearing for support).

The wife called, I just got a 1900 delivered today... so I'll be able to see if this will work tomorrow. I'm about to sit down and do the math for all the pulleys to make sure the final belt speed will be equal the original shaft speed so I can just make one trip to the bearing/pulley/belt store. I am definitely trying your dual belt idea first. I think that is where it's at for these, gives you a place to put sensors underneath to be tripped by the bottom of the platten. Also, though I like your rollers pictured, I am going to try with some stationary slippery plastic of a much larger radius or maybe solid along the whole rail since the inside of the belt is "bumpy"

I think the holy grail for this would be the ability to slightly take it apart and clear all the wires/sensors from the cutting path and remove the mainboard/ps, put it back together and physically cut the entire printer on a bandsaw in 2 places, leaving a clean cut to the entire thing, and all outer plastic in place. I don't know if I'll have enough courage to do it that way, but I'm going to start out with that as the goal.

For me, the final size is less important that the ability for it to be portable. One of the biggest things I don't want is wires and circuit boards out in the open. I just had a request to go to a hockey tourney this winter and print shirts on demand... I was stuck in the old mindset and thinking about how many shirts and transfers I'd have to preprint and how much of a pita it would be to get a vinyl cutter and heat press and all that then I realized that really what I needed to do was make sure my next DTG is portable, and that it has the ability to print on sleeves also.

102557 August 5th, 2010 03:49 PM

Re: Mission accomplished "license to thrill"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by essen48183 (Post 737820)
sort of but not really. The biggest advantage to what I am talking about is leaving it all in the printer (PF motor, PF roller/encoding wheel, PF sensor) in their original mounting holes, just cutting the shaft and putting a timing pulley of the proper size on the cut off end of it (and a bearing for support).

The wife called, I just got a 1900 delivered today... so I'll be able to see if this will work tomorrow. I'm about to sit down and do the math for all the pulleys to make sure the final belt speed will be equal the original shaft speed so I can just make one trip to the bearing/pulley/belt store. I am definitely trying your dual belt idea first. I think that is where it's at for these, gives you a place to put sensors underneath to be tripped by the bottom of the platten. Also, though I like your rollers pictured, I am going to try with some stationary slippery plastic of a much larger radius or maybe solid along the whole rail since the inside of the belt is "bumpy"


yeah that is what i pictured you saying...


take a look at my pencil diagram on the pic there.. its says right next to the encoder that it is in its original location?:confused:

but heres the problem with that, like i said your limited to sheet mode as explained earlier . your rear design is longer.. theres not enough space for the larger pulley not even the smallest i could find would work without machining the shaft... when the print head goes to spit it will hit the top of the pulley clearance is limited there and you also have the spit mess to deal with on the belt!

this was one of my first thoughts aswell!:p

102557 August 5th, 2010 03:57 PM

Re: Mission accomplished "license to thrill"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by essen48183 (Post 737820)
sort of but not really. The biggest advantage to what I am talking about is leaving it all in the printer (PF motor, PF roller/encoding wheel, PF sensor) in their original mounting holes, just cutting the shaft and putting a timing pulley of the proper size on the cut off end of it (and a bearing for support).

The wife called, I just got a 1900 delivered today... so I'll be able to see if this will work tomorrow. I'm about to sit down and do the math for all the pulleys to make sure the final belt speed will be equal the original shaft speed so I can just make one trip to the bearing/pulley/belt store. I am definitely trying your dual belt idea first. I think that is where it's at for these, gives you a place to put sensors underneath to be tripped by the bottom of the platten. Also, though I like your rollers pictured, I am going to try with some stationary slippery plastic of a much larger radius or maybe solid along the whole rail since the inside of the belt is "bumpy"

I think the holy grail for this would be the ability to slightly take it apart and clear all the wires/sensors from the cutting path and remove the mainboard/ps, put it back together and physically cut the entire printer on a bandsaw in 2 places, leaving a clean cut to the entire thing, and all outer plastic in place. I don't know if I'll have enough courage to do it that way, but I'm going to start out with that as the goal.

For me, the final size is less important that the ability for it to be portable. One of the biggest things I don't want is wires and circuit boards out in the open. I just had a request to go to a hockey tourney this winter and print shirts on demand... I was stuck in the old mindset and thinking about how many shirts and transfers I'd have to preprint and how much of a pita it would be to get a vinyl cutter and heat press and all that then I realized that really what I needed to do was make sure my next DTG is portable, and that it has the ability to print on sleeves also.


as far as portability i dont even think this is an issue if you need that option..

my original white printer weighed in at 42 pounds completely enclosed...well minus the cover so add another 2.5;)

that will not be a problem for you if you make it in plastic my current design is done in all (HDPE) high density polyethylene-it has shed around 10 more pounds this way.. its very light plastic. platen is made in this aswell!

just by conversing with you, it seems you will be the next to get a 1900 going...it is a monster..lol but you have a good head start on the how to's.. i started with a blank canvas alot of trial an error.. did i say alot of error! lol and error lights..lol

you will see what i mean....keep your easy button handy:D

102557 August 5th, 2010 04:09 PM

Re: Mission accomplished "license to thrill"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by essen48183 (Post 737832)
that was quick. A 3.120" pitch dia wheel on the pf shaft going to a 0.764" pitch dia wheel driving one of the belt pulley shafts. The 5/16" belt pulley shafts (2) having four 1.248" pitch dia wheels. It ends up VERY close to one to one as far as the speed of the surface of the pf shaft and the speed of the pitch diameter line of the belt. I'm guessing close enough to be corrected out by the stock pf alignment. This doesn't make the belt any faster than stock paper speed through the printer. If you want to speed it up, buy a couple different sizes of slightly larger wheels to put in place of the .764 wheel to find your magic spot. They are cheap enough to buy a couple different size if you wanted to speed it up some and run ekprint.


i will use the ek adjustment regardless of the set up diameters...its much easier, but i agree calculate it as close as possible, i cant say enough about the ek rip, its quite a tool!!!!

i emailed them last night with another request, got the email back this morn from them..they will be on it a.s.a.p now thats service!!

Ace Money August 5th, 2010 05:28 PM

Re: Mission accomplished "license to thrill"
 
wow. The imagination is a wonderful tool.

essen48183 August 5th, 2010 08:03 PM

Re: Mission accomplished "license to thrill"
 
these are better numbers, the other was in error a mix of two different series of gears.

using XL series timing belts:

on 5/16" belt shafts, a .955" pitch dia pulley with 15 teeth gives you 3 times belt distance traveled compared to paper riding directly on the shaft. So the step up is 3 to 1. You'd need 4 of these on your rails.

on one of the belt shafts an extension sticking out holding a 12 tooth .764" pitch dia pulley that is belted to a 2.292" pitch dia pulley with 36 teeth directly on the pf shaft. This steps down the ratio 3 to 1.

so this should work without a if there is room for about a 2.5" (with belt) pulley on the pf shaft.

if there is room for it ( a 1 inch all around by 3/8" thick circular clearance right next to the frame by the pf motor) 1 revolution of the 5/16" shaft on a stock printer would move the paper .98175".
The belt moving the platten on this system would move 1.00007", so about 1.8 hundredths of an inch faster per inch. The bands are less than an inch wide, I'm thinking about a half inch, so each band would be off by less than one hundredth of an inch which might not even produce an error that is perceptable.

102557 August 5th, 2010 09:30 PM

Re: Mission accomplished "license to thrill"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by essen48183 (Post 738010)
these are better numbers, the other was in error a mix of two different series of gears.

using XL series timing belts:

on 5/16" belt shafts, a .955" pitch dia pulley with 15 teeth gives you 3 times belt distance traveled compared to paper riding directly on the shaft. So the step up is 3 to 1. You'd need 4 of these on your rails.

on one of the belt shafts an extension sticking out holding a 12 tooth .764" pitch dia pulley that is belted to a 2.292" pitch dia pulley with 36 teeth directly on the pf shaft. This steps down the ratio 3 to 1.

so this should work without a if there is room for about a 2.5" (with belt) pulley on the pf shaft.

if there is room for it ( a 1 inch all around by 3/8" thick circular clearance right next to the frame by the pf motor) 1 revolution of the 5/16" shaft on a stock printer would move the paper .98175".
The belt moving the platten on this system would move 1.00007", so about 1.8 hundredths of an inch faster per inch. The bands are less than an inch wide, I'm thinking about a half inch, so each band would be off by less than one hundredth of an inch which might not even produce an error that is perceptable.

your a number cruncher for sure...:D

you know your stuff... i need to run my new deal buy ya so you can crunch these aswell...

i have an awesome idea thats never been seen on a dtg that i know of as far as a drive unit... its super simple...and one hundred percent accurate and fits the whole equation perfect;) this is it its the real deal..

id like to talk to you pm about this or phone would be better.. if you have time tommorro eve central time let me know..

you are going to love this for sure..i need to get the numbers right the first time and have someone familar with the process brainstorming..

102557 August 6th, 2010 02:34 AM

Re: Mission accomplished "license to thrill"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by essen48183 (Post 738010)
these are better numbers, the other was in error a mix of two different series of gears.

Using xl series timing belts:

On 5/16" belt shafts, a .955" pitch dia pulley with 15 teeth gives you 3 times belt distance traveled compared to paper riding directly on the shaft. So the step up is 3 to 1. You'd need 4 of these on your rails.

On one of the belt shafts an extension sticking out holding a 12 tooth .764" pitch dia pulley that is belted to a 2.292" pitch dia pulley with 36 teeth directly on the pf shaft. This steps down the ratio 3 to 1.

So this should work without a if there is room for about a 2.5" (with belt) pulley on the pf shaft.

If there is room for it ( a 1 inch all around by 3/8" thick circular clearance right next to the frame by the pf motor) 1 revolution of the 5/16" shaft on a stock printer would move the paper .98175".
The belt moving the platten on this system would move 1.00007", so about 1.8 hundredths of an inch faster per inch. The bands are less than an inch wide, i'm thinking about a half inch, so each band would be off by less than one hundredth of an inch which might not even produce an error that is perceptable.


.6670 on the 5/16ths shaft how much does that throw it off without compensating for it???

essen48183 August 6th, 2010 09:11 AM

Re: Mission accomplished "license to thrill"
 
they don't have an XL series that small, the 12 tooth .764 ptich dia is the smallest. If you put one of those on there:
one rotation of the pf shaft would make one rotation of the roller shaft. Leaving all others the same, the belt would travel 3 times as fast as a stock paper in the printer. That is quite fast. So, in that case you'd probably want to use the same small ones on that shaft. You'd have one rotation of the pf shaft causing one rotation of the belt shafts causing Pi*.764 of movement.

So small .764 pulleys on all locations gives 2.4 inches of belt travel for .98 inches of stock paper travel.

still fast. this is why I ended up increasing the size of the pf pulley. if you doubled the tooth count to 24 of that pf pulley, you'd have 1.2 inches of final travel. if you made it 18 teeth, about 1.8 inches of travel for every 1 inch. 15 teeth, somewhere between there (around 1.5 inches). I'd say that was a safe but aggressive bet (a 50% increase in speed)

You may want to try a .955 15T XL on the pf shaft, and .764 12T XL's in all other locations for that 50% increase.

In my case I want to be able to keep it at stock speed (as close to 1 to 1 as possible) because I have multirip... for now. The smallest gear sizes of all offered on that site were used to produce my calcs to get 1 to 1 movement. There are alot of options if you don't need to keep it 1 to 1.

essen48183 August 6th, 2010 03:25 PM

Re: Mission accomplished "license to thrill"
 
O.K. Tore into it today. ( looks like someone stuck a grenade in my printer ) Jeff is correct, you can't fit a gear or pulley onto that shaft of any size. But you can fit it on the front most paper roller. That shaft is stepped down to compensate for rubber rings. it spins 0.814814 times for every one time the PF shaft turns.
So using that shaft as our origin... the new numbers for XL series timing belts are:
30T on that front shaft belted to a 12T on the conveyor shaft.
15T (x4) on all the conveyor ends
I'll be trying a 63" belt (x2) for the platen conveyors and a 36" for the drive belt (just a guess, both will be easy to change later)


(also jeff, there is a .637 10T and a .7 11T but they are smaller bore holes... but there is room to machine them larger for this low horsepower application.)
This gear arrangement actually is better... in the end the difference between the original paper feeder and the platen speed is only .0003" per inch of travel (and it should fit in the printer which is a plus :-) ). Unfortunately my guy didn't have all the components in stock and the stock shaft holes were not 5/16", so I placed an order and had the ones that were off machined with the proper 5/16" bores.


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