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better cheaper dtg ink than dupont

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Old March 6th, 2012 Mar 6, 2012 8:47:46 AM -   #1 (permalink)
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Default better cheaper dtg ink than dupont

Has anyone found a better alternative to using dupont dtg white ink?
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Old March 6th, 2012 Mar 6, 2012 9:27:06 AM -   #2 (permalink)
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Sounds like you have hit the DTG slump..it happens
You just have to think outside the bottled ink and dive into your printer. Trust me it was a roller coaster sorts for us until we learned how to use the printer correctly. No its not taught in training but the school of hard knocks.
Hard knocks:
-to your wallet
-sanity
-your customer base
-quality printing

After complaining and trying to blame everyone we realized it wasn't the printers fault. Its the ink delivery system and how poorly it was engineered. We blamed everyone but ourselves because trust me enough people were doing that already.

Look into the forums regarding closed ink delivery, bottled ink and how the benefits of degassed/defiltered ink does wonders.

Not necessarily for 1 printer but all printer using this system. The elimation of air is cruical for the ink to rull smoothly.

NeoFlex - closed carts w/ degassed ink
Belquette-bagged ink degassed

Someone is successful otherwise DTG would not be here.
 
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Old March 7th, 2012 Mar 7, 2012 7:14:14 AM -   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: better cheaper dtg ink than dupont

Quote:
Originally Posted by startitinc
Has anyone found a better alternative to using dupont dtg white ink?
Hi Startitinc,

Since Carla didn't answer your question I will try to here. There have been a number of companies try to enter the direct to garment ink marketplace and a number of them have made some pretty decent color inks. The area where all of them fall off is in the white ink arena. Good white ink needs to be as opaque as possible as well as have excellent washfastness. What this translates into is an ink that is heavily laden with pigment (TiO2) and binders (polymers that help the ink to adhere to the garment). The white ink needs more binders than the colors as it must sit "on top" of the garment. Trying to accomplish making an ink that does not settle out quickly is very difficult, add this to the need for rigid quality control and you will quickly realize that most manufacturers entering the market do not have the resources to produce a consistent product. You will find some white inks that are not as opaque that are very printer friendly - but require a second pass to acheive the opacity needed - which makes using them even more expensive.

Another factor to consider is the fact that the inkset you are asking about is designed to be used as a set. The CMYK inks actually crosslink with the surface of the white creating optimal washability and minimized dot gain which gives sharper prints on darks.

Last, but not least, is the pretreatment. Every single ink we have ever tested (it has been at least 6 different white inks) has performed better on the existing pretreatment than on their own pretreatment.

Hope this more directly addresses your question.
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Old March 7th, 2012 Mar 7, 2012 8:17:32 AM -   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: better cheaper dtg ink than dupont

Don, my English? After i read your post I did not get cool relief and nice feeling as after healthy poops. R even thanks for her reply. It must be good reply.
How about this?
No, DuPont is the best one so far quality wise.
Yes, there are many white ink mfgs. Less quality but much cheaper.
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Last edited by allamerican; March 7th, 2012 at 05:51 PM..
 
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Old March 7th, 2012 Mar 7, 2012 8:26:22 AM -   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: better cheaper dtg ink than dupont

Quote:
Originally Posted by allamerican
After i read your post I did not get cool and nice feeling as after healthy poops.
I think I like your reply better!
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Old March 7th, 2012 Mar 7, 2012 1:45:56 PM -   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: better cheaper dtg ink than dupont

Don,
Aren't we a buddies? We like laugh and parties. dicking and picking around all the time. Will you drop by my booth at AC? I want to make sure your bourbon is ready. What was the brand?
Excuse to Scott is my job.
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Old March 7th, 2012 Mar 7, 2012 5:41:14 PM -   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: better cheaper dtg ink than dupont

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don-ColDesi
Since Carla didn't answer your question I will try to here.
Since Don, gave you the distributor sales pitch and gibberish about the functions of DTG ink and the ink market.

I gave you an end user experience of DuPont ink, I did not mention SWF East (who I dealt with with my K2-who now is Coldesi) you know why??? I wasn't successful with their ink and I found a less expensive* alternative to DuPont ink which is how it properly degassed/micro-filtered DuPont ink. I mentioned 2 proven companies that properly degas/micro-filter their DuPont ink.

Its the not the price point but what you get out of the bagged/cart ink. Can any bottled ink end user say that they get all the ink out of their bottles before adding more??? (see picture below)

You want a less expensive DTG ink than DuPont? Then you just need it in the best form available. Both options are available you just need to think outside of the "bottle".

@Peter- can you provide a empty cart picture? I know there was one a time before, if not I will ask JW to post one.


*I don't like using the word ch**p, because I prefer not to produce ch**p product, especially how much we paid for our machines.

Last edited by dazzabling; February 24th, 2013 at 07:09 PM..
 
Old March 8th, 2012 Mar 8, 2012 4:18:15 AM -   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: better cheaper dtg ink than dupont

Carla,

Forgive me if you felt convicted by my post. It was never intended that way. I answered the question that was asked with the information I have obtained through nearly 8 years of dealing with direct to garment ink and numerous one on one conversations, phone calls & emails with the head chemists of at least three different ink manufacturers [may be more, I have lost track over the years].
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Old March 10th, 2012 Mar 10, 2012 11:34:08 AM -   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: better cheaper dtg ink than dupont

I will also jump in here and say that I used the bulk system on my HM1 the whole entire time I owned it, and because I had the proper environment that I kept a certain temp as well as humidity, I never had any issues with it at all. I never had head clogs, and always got great coverage. There are many pictures from me on this forum of garments I printed over the years to show this.

I think that some times what works for one person may not work for another, but its figuring out what works best for you.

I think that Dupont does have the best white ink, and that is because they have continuously changed it over the years to get a better ink. When I first started with their original white ink, it separated very quickly, and every time they make a new formula for improvement, it gets better as it did for me. I will say I never used the bagged system because I did not have any issues with the bulk system, and my theory was why fix it if it was not broken. Remember that anyone coming out with new white inks, are going to go through the growing pains dupont did to get it to the level dupont has gotten their ink.

As Carla stated, even though the ink they are using is DUPONT, it is packaged differently, but still the same ink. So is there a better white ink than Dupont? Probably not, as the other manufacturing companies of ink, have yet to go through all the growing pains they did, reformulating to get a better ink over and over. They start with one formula, figure out a way to make it better and so on and so on until they get to where Dupont is.

I know there are several different ink sets for CMYK that may work well, but with the white I had never found a better ink then Dupont. The packaging of it just depends on you, and what works best for you. For me my bulk system was perfectly fine and I never felt the need to change it, as I had absolutely no issues with it. So it really comes down to what works best for each individual but as far as brand, I think dupont is the best white you will find.
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Old March 10th, 2012 Mar 10, 2012 6:16:35 PM -   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: better cheaper dtg ink than dupont

With all the respect Bobbie,
There are no perfect environment and every location and every person are all different. You are one out of thousands odds. We as a mfg we have to find the way of user friendly and issue proof as much as we can to the majority of digital printers. Ink contact with open air is no no even a little. Accident/mishandle chance is extremely high and cause users pain. Since we apply bagged ink clog report rate is almost gone. Yes Dupont upgrade their ink many times but last was around 1.5 years ago and did not touched. It was Magenta bending not white. This is at least I heard by their tech. Big part of almost none clog report these days is bagged idea it did great part than better ink. Many dtg owners are extending printhead's life 2 years plus these days.( epson modify). I reply this with worry of people may follow your foot step for little odds. I am sure you'll understand my point. follow the leader as Epson does. We do exactly as they are doing it.
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Last edited by allamerican; March 10th, 2012 at 06:25 PM..
 
Old March 10th, 2012 Mar 10, 2012 6:30:24 PM -   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: better cheaper dtg ink than dupont

LOL yes Peter you met me at the dinner

What my point was that I MYSELF never had any problems with my bulk system, and I did have a great environment set up for my printer as I ran my business out of my house, had a dedicated room to my machine, kept a hydrometer on my machine, used humidifiers, and kept the temp, humidity and all the same at all times. For me I did have the perfect environment and I only ever used 2 printheads on my printer in four years. When I sold it last about a year ago, it still had the second printhead on it and was still printing perfect prints. So as I said this was my experience, and the bulk system worked fine for me and I never had the issues so many others have had.

I think it depends a lot on where the printer is kept, how you take care of your printer (mine was like my second child), and how you take care of the environment it is kept in have a great bearing on how your printer will run and what works for each individual. I was just giving my experience, and I did not have problems. I can even give you the guys contact info I sold my printer to, and he can verify this for you
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Old March 10th, 2012 Mar 10, 2012 6:34:45 PM -   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: better cheaper dtg ink than dupont

Oh I will also state that the reason I replaced the first printhead was that I had test printed some ink from another distributor that was in the process of coming out with a new ink set and that ink, it was only CMYK, messed up my printhead, otherwise I think I might not have even had to change it at all. Once I became a tester for this ink company (which I will not name, as I tested several different inks for several different companies) and ran their ink through my machine, my printhead was shot and it never printed the same after so I replaced it, that is where the second printhead came in.
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Old March 10th, 2012 Mar 10, 2012 6:42:21 PM -   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: better cheaper dtg ink than dupont

Did I gave you a hug? If not you owe me double next time. So you do not have printer? It's a shame. Dont tell here why you get rid of your second child. I am afraid of all will follow you. lol
Cheers! Dinners are on me always to you.
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Old March 10th, 2012 Mar 10, 2012 6:47:21 PM -   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: better cheaper dtg ink than dupont

Yes you did give me a hug hahaha.

Its ok I will answer you. I had a spinal cord surgery that damaged a bunch of nerves in my back, which left me partially paralyzed although you cannot tell just by looking at me, but I have way to much pain from it and go to the doctors or end up in the hospital too much, that I could not keep up with my business. It was a hard decision to close it, but it was something I had no choice in. Maybe one day I will be able to get another Right now I enjoy sharing what I have learned over the years, and still go to shows and such. I still keep up on things that are changing, and still love helping and sharing here
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Old March 12th, 2012 Mar 12, 2012 4:10:13 AM -   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: better cheaper dtg ink than dupont

Bobbie,
I am so sorry to hear that. I will prey for your fast recovery and full heal. And be a NeoFamily? Lol.
Cheers! Beers are on me always.
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