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At $3/shirt, isn't a $55K GT-782 too expensive?

[Brother GT-782] 
24K views 133 replies 29 participants last post by  Jinxplay 
#1 ·
So, the GT-728 is $55,000 or more. If it's true that dark shirts are, on average, $3/shirt, it seems priced way above the competition.

I know it's a different ink, but it seems Brother is like US pharmaceutical companies...charging us for their development costs.

Am I off base?
 
#77 · (Edited)
Printzilla,

Very good points..

- No a 720x720 wouldn't quite be good enough from what I've found.

- I think you are correct that running 3 mod printers while also pretreating would be very hard to do if not impossible. If you are printing large dark shirt back prints and you have an auto pretreat you could get close. Then at least the bottle neck wouldn't be the printer. I think 2 mod one printers per operator is the sweet spot. Smaller pocket prints are tough to keep up with just 1 printer.

-we also have screen printing so we run shirts down the dryer to cut down the heat press time to 2:30 for dark and no pressing for shirts without white ink.

- I don't know if I should throw out prices but when buying quantity (5+ liters at a time) the bags get competitive with bulk dupont ink bottles.

I don't have that graphic so send it on over. andy@Mcdanielgroupllc.com I like facts not guesses so it will be good to get an even comparison.

Hope this helps.. I'm tired and in general a poor writer so who knows if this was readable.

Thanks, Andy
 
#79 ·
I don't understand how people can justify the cost of a Brother 782
Wassup Andy and gang
All I can really say is you have to own one to understand why we felt like Brother was the Better Choice for us. The maintenance is alone is next to nill and the pretreating and curing times alone are less effort than having 3 epsons. Imagine all the running around with 3 printers? lol

Printzilla might be the one of few that can chime in on this but he might still even feel as you do.
 
#83 · (Edited)
ok...thought this would be the best way to show the dual 720 and its print speed... I printed the surf shark at 12 inches wide. no smoke n mirrors video experts etc, just an old kodak easyshare c340:) I did'nt fool with the colors, its a hack n paste job and my pretreat still is subpar.. Im a still learning!! my wife is the expert at this and she wasnt avail.. so my daughter and i gave er hell!!

i have mistakes in the art itself, had to take out layers etc its a great dane so i think it is set up for screen printing.. all this being said it can be made to look much better by the experts ..(my wife):) by fooling with the rip settings!!!

she does this on a daily basis with the other printer and it looks great and she has had no issue with selling any 720 res prints or returns.. the printer will crank these out super fast in 720 printing to white with awesome quality aswell.

this should take care of the argument that an epson cant do this in 720, again its ek rip.. say what you want about the commercial printer that uses this rip, i know nothing of there business practices and they dont make the software! [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oREjGkfKPlY[/media]

regards
 
#84 ·
Between Jeff's video and this video, the speed issue should be put to rest.

As for price, depending on your buying volume of ink, this design would cost between $2.60 and $3.60 on the Brother 782. I will let those with an Epson 1800 post the ink cost when running at 1440x1440, 1440x720, and I will let Jeff post the price when printing at 720x720, since he seems to be the only one on the forums who has the ability to do that.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8klr4lUroaA[/media]
 
#85 · (Edited)
I used medium drop size, level 2, and vivid for the color layer... for the white underbase i used medium drop size level 3.. (content based setting) you have to play around with the high light level control etc..

there are other ways to get the same results using the (mixed setting etc) they key is not flooding the white and adding white highlight while printing the color aswell.. this using bidirectional enabled!!!

Its a major PITA to get dialed in, once you understand how it works it starts getting easier..you have to test and test and play around with the contrast etc for the white layer!!! I wasted a ton o ink testing. Im no expert im still learning!! my wife makes it look easy!!;) I Think the biggest mistake someone will make using the ek is thinking there just going to turn it on and it will do it by itself..not the case in 720 res:) any anajet sprint user with the 1900 version rip can do this once its dialed in, it being the same software!! hopefully i continue to get better at it!!!:p
 
#86 ·
Jeff,

When using the highlight white and 720 underbase do you have to tweak settings for different designs or did you find one that will work on most? The problem I had with the lighter underbase and using a strong highlight to make white areas good was the colors and white highlight bleeding together.

Also is it consistent over a large run. At 720 we found you were already borderline having enough white so any little clogging of the head would be very noticeable.

I'm now thinking I should take another look and do some more testing again. It would be great to run the underbase quicker since I do mostly full back prints on black shirts.

Thanks,
Andy
 
#87 ·
Andy..

we are really novices at the process and technology but we find that once you get the white how you like it, its generally the same or the same settings for all designs.. the largest run my wife has had is about 40 shirts of the same image, and a smaller graphic than the one shown.. I personally cant notice a difference, if any its slight but i do not have a trained eye for art either:)

typically she does only one or two of the same image at a time..(baby-kids items ie smaller graphic) with ek it works different ways you can raise the level and lower drop size vice versa while adjusting highlight and contrasts etc it all works the same to me..lol:) you really just have to play around with it to your liking!!! ( i find the white preview window to be accurate to the print however i cant say the same for the color) I was only able to do this with ek myself you may know how to adjust other rips or have more experience at doing so than me!!!

best of luck..
 
#89 ·
You can take a white shirt and sublimate it well enough to make it seem like a black shirt, all for less than $6.00? I would love to hear more. It has been years since we sublimated, so I would love an update on the technology. When we did it the shirts alone cost around $4.50, not to mention the ink, and paper.

Thanks in advance!
 
#96 · (Edited)
WAIT A MINUTE HERE!!!:p I just noticed printzilla posted an additional vid of the surfshark print ;) I thought i was being nice by not posting a trimmed down version and comparing it to the original vid he posted..

I will also print and repost my trimmed time version of the 720x720 surfshark sometime late in the week or early next week.. (print cost will reduce aswell):D

this will make the print time comparison fair between the epson and the brother 782.. I set it up originally with the highlight and everything, like printzilla represented in his original surfshark vid.. YouTube - Brother GT-782 Surf Shark Demo Print ..

you lose detail as his did in his second vid YouTube - Shark Print but it will be a closer comparison (fair assessment this way) It seems the epsons print colors are more consistant with the original art!!! between the two machines!! I also noticed in his new vid the registration appears to be off i see alot white poking out at the end of the print:eek: thats just not acceptable with a price tag like that...

gotta order some pre treat.. so it may be early next week have the family coming in for thanks giving and the day job.. this is starting to get fun however!!!!!:p

hey print i calculate a 2:47 second print time in your NEW vid is this a fair assessment? your not gonna take that last spit out are ya?:D we will see what the homemade epson r1900 ($1,500 total cost) can do in comparison to the ($55,000) brother....the epson printing at 720 res (anajet) has already won in my eyes considering cost of machine and ink cost difference (aftermarket ink)..*IMHO* lets see if we can get close to your new print time.. A DTG DAVID AND GOLIATH:p GOTTA LOVE IT....
 
#97 ·
hey print i calculate a 2:47 second print time in your vid is this a fair assessment? your not gonna take that last spit out are ya?:D we will see what the homemade epson r1900 ($1,500 total cost) can do in comparison to the ($55,000) brother.... The epson printing in 720 res has already won in my eyes considering cost of machine and ink cost difference, lets see if we can get close with the print time.. A DTG DAVID AND GOLIATH:p GOTTA LOVE IT....
So it *is* all about promoting your printer vs the Brother. At least the tone and direction of your posts make more sense now.

I'm glad you created the printer you wanted at a price point you can be proud of.

That being said, I own an Epson based printer and I own a copy of EKDigital. We are currently paying off that bill using a GT-782 and the Epson product is sitting quietly in the corner with no buyers interested in it.

Again, I do wish you success in convincing more people to move to the Epson platform. I'd rather compete against other Epson solutions currently than another GT-782.
 
#99 ·
German,dont you have anything better to do,like print shirts and stop worrying about the Brother.Those who are buying Epson based printers will buy them,those who want the Brother will buy that.You are not going to convince anybody with your posts .Im glad I dont have all the time you have to worry about this because Im printing shirts and busy making money.Give it a break.This thread was not about the Epson based printer.Again,start your own thread.
 
#102 ·
I love how this thread involved heavy discussion of "Brother ink cost / viscosity vs. Epson ink cost / viscosity" FROM THE FIRST PAGE, but as soon as Jeff rally's some facts / videos / dollars and cents comparisons for the EPSON printers, you Brother owners start getting personal and making it about the PERSON and not the PRINTERS. This whole "you have a hidden agenda if you are promoting machine X" has been used a hundred thousand times before, and it is no more a valid argument than "you don't own one so you don't know anything about it".

Look at the FIRST PAGE of this thread, and let me know what you think this discussion was about, then explain why you guys keep choosing to attack Jeff instead of sticking to debating the issues at hand (ie, Brother ink costs / viscosity vs. other machines, and the merits / downfalls of each). By the SECOND POST in this thread, someone was already comparing the Brother setup to the Epson setup.... By the end of the first page, a Kornit owner had chimed in to compare the setup to his, another Epson DISTRIBUTOR, and several end users, all showed up and began discussing these very points......... But as soon as Jeff pops up with real good information that contradicts what the Brother owners hold dear, everyone starts crying foul. Lame; go enjoy your printer, and let the fortunes you are obviously making roll in, unless of course you want to actually discuss the merits of one printer vs. another, without taking jabs at people?

Im glad I dont have all the time you have to worry about this because Im printing shirts and busy making money.
Riiiight.... But you have plenty of time to come in here and insult people who are actually sharing valuable information, not just talking ****? We have gone these rounds before, I know..... I still can't stand it when the best rebuttal someone has is "go away and start your own thread; nobody is listening to you, here" or "Gee, I'M way too busy and important to participate in a conversation like this, so I'm going to imply by my statements that YOU suck because you have free time to share information with people on the forum". God I hated Jr. High.....


Jeff - THANK YOU for sharing all the information you have shared, FOR FREE, EVERY DAY on this forum.... You don't come here and act like you have all the answers, and you certainly don't belittle anybody else (at least, not in one single post I have read of yours); your professional opinions are enlightening, and I for one have learned quite a bit from you since you started coming around here (and hey, I haven't had to buy a damn thing from you!!!! Although you must be making a fortune on all those products you are supposedly selling........ :rolleyes:).

Marc - As always, thanks for continuing to share your experience with your Brother printer.... As you know, we went totally opposite directions with our most recent machine purchases, respectively, so it is great to see thorough discussions like these taking place! Gives me insight, in conjunction with trade show evaluations and sample prints and discussions like these, to allow me to make informed decisions in the future. You've always been down to debate the pros / cons of each system, and time has proven that you have never had specific loyalty to one specific brand or system!

You people in the peanut gallery (you know the ones; those who are NOT posting information for the benefit of others, but who would rather insult others on the forum who ARE, simply because you happen to have a differing opinion) aren't really proving anything with your "nobody is listening to you so just go away" attitude. The fact is, LOTS of people read these discussions and gain insight into the industry that helps determine future buying decisions. Those who DON'T own Brother printers can learn about them through the feedback of the end users, and those who DON'T own Epson printers can learn about them through the feedback of the end users... I don't really see what the downside to discussions like this, are, except that people get upset when you tell them you don't agree with them. :confused:

Anyways, I don't think I contributed anything provokative to this discussion, so that's all I've got for now...... Play nice? :rolleyes:
 
#104 ·
Let me also add that my comments are based on speed and price per print. IF we start taking into consideration the initial entry price, then the Epsons certainly gain ground and come to the forefront. If we take into account quality of print regardless of speed or cost, then clearly the Epson's are once again at the front of the discussion. However this is not what the discussion has centered around.
 
#113 ·
Let me also add that my comments are based on speed and price per print. IF we start taking into consideration the initial entry price,
$35,000 Additional over a Mod1...

then the Epsons certainly gain ground and come to the forefront. If we take into account quality of print regardless of speed or cost, then clearly the Epson's are once again at the front of the discussion..
Huh??? Maybe as a "framable" Art Print fresh off the printer, but Isn't the Brother better QUALITY After 20- 28 washes?

IMHO It all comes down to washability and "that $35,000"
 
#105 ·
I also want to make it clear that I believe Jeff has created a cool printer, and I think he has optimized the settings in the rip to get what he feels is a good print. The issue is, can it be repeated by anyone else, and would those of us that actual sell shirts, agree that it is high enough quality.
 
#106 ·
Marc,

with all due respect you reposted your surfshark vid... you had one already posted and i set my printer/rip up to print what you had represented in that video...

once i posted my vid then you made another taking out your highlight and trimming it down!!! WTF so whats the problem you couldnt except that comparison? thats why i would like to post an equal.. i can trim it back the same as you did and get equal image results !!! im not sure about faster but i know alot of time will be saved by doing so... you posted the second vid reprint not me..

i thought we were doing are best quaility image!!! the truth i believe is you just cant except it, first saying it cant be done by an epson in 720 which is just false any anajet sprint using the ek software can do this with an experienced user..... ANAJET WITH EK RIP!!

you dont beleive the anajet vids that clearly showed this and you are questioning mine that was recorded on a camera.. i posted up the ink cost right from the rip!!! 2.97 for that print... you quoted in your FIRST video 2.75 for the print buying in bulk?

I have represented my findings 100% accurate, maybe you could post up a print calc also on that first print?

just want to show things apples to apples here as far as print quaility and time!!!

I have no issue with you at all, have read a ton of your posts i think your a good guy, sometimes you have to look outside the box!!!.. Im just saying the ek rip will do this and if you dont beleive it your cordially invited to chicago to see it in person if you cant find it anywhere else!!:)
 
#109 ·
Marc,


i thought we were doing are best quaility image!!! the truth i believe is you just cant except it, first saying it cant be done by an epson in 720 which is just false any anajet sprint using the ek software can do this with an experienced user..... ANAJET WITH EK RIP!!

you dont beleive the anajet vids that clearly showed this and you are questioning mine that was recorded on a camera.. i posted up the ink cost right from the rip!!! 2.97 for that print... you quoted in your FIRST video 2.75 for the print buying in bulk?

I have represented my findings 100% accurate, maybe you could post up a print calc also on that first print?

just want to show things apples to apples here as far as print quaility and time!!!

I have no issue with you at all, have read a ton of your posts i think your a good guy, sometimes you have to look outside the box!!!.. Im just saying the ek rip will do this and if you dont beleive it your cordially invited to chicago to see it in person if you cant find it anywhere else!!:)
Best quality image? You are saying the best quality image on your machine is 720x720? Really? You are correct, I don't believe it.

I am not at all questioning your video. I believe the times and the ink costs, both of which are slower and more expensive than the Brother. What I do not believe is that the industry (not just you and your wife) would agree that the 720x720 prints are good enough to sell. Nobody has come onto this or any other thread to backup this statement. Several users have come on here and said they cannot do it. What do you expect me to believe?

I would love to be proved wrong, but I will not be holding my breath.
 
#107 ·
I agree stick to the topic. But I can't help but notice is that Jeff's post doesn't neccesarally discredit Brother. It does more harm to DTG, Neoflex , MOD1 and all other epson based printers as they are identical in almost comparison/Foundation.
 
#108 ·
What do you mean by trim down? The second video is an equivalent post to an epson 720x720 white layer. The original video is equivalent to a 1440 squared print from an Epson. How could you possibly set your printer up to represent that post? You have not printed on a 782 enough to make that judgement call. I printed a top quality print off of my machine in my first video. You didn't. This is the ludicrous accusations that I refer to. You come back with at best a middle of the road print for your machine based on resolution. It is several steps below the maximum 2880 the printer is capable of. I do the same and you accuse me of trimming it back. What do you mean by trimming it back?

You can't have it both ways. Either print your best resolution against mine, or print your medium against mine, or your lowest against mine. You can't print your medium against my best and call that a far comparison. Come on, I would expect more from an engineer.
 
#110 ·
What do you mean by trim down? The second video is an equivalent post to an epson 720x720 white layer. The original video is equivalent to a 1440 squared print from an Epson. How could you possibly set your printer up to represent that post? You have not printed on a 782 enough to make that judgement call. I printed a top quality print off of my machine in my first video. You didn't. This is the ludicrous accusations that I refer to. You come back with at best a middle of the road print for your machine based on resolution. It is several steps below the maximum 2880 the printer is capable of. I do the same and you accuse me of trimming it back. What do you mean by trimming it back?

You can't have it both ways. Either print your best resolution against mine, or print your medium against mine, or your lowest against mine. You can't print your medium against my best and call that a far comparison. Come on, I would expect more from an engineer.

like i said im no expert at printing... i just added some highlight etc in my first vid that i can leave out!!!

I will print the surfshark again at my best speed time in 720 res and we will call it done!!! it will be what it is? sound fair

is the 2:47 print time on your 720x720 your best with that image!! i have no idea how much if any faster i can get the epson to print but i will give it a shot and see what it does..:)
 
#112 ·
That really accomplishes nothing. What needs to happen, is a print at a resolution that creates an industry accepted finished print, anything less than that is a wate because nobody will ever print at anything below acceptable industry standards I propose you print a black T at your fastest possible speed that results in a garment that you believe is sellable. Send that garment to an impartial judge like Justin Walker. If Justin posts that it would pass in his shop as a sellable print, I will accept that, as Justin has a firm grasp on what the market will accept. Post time to print and ink used.
 
#114 · (Edited)
yeah .. we will work something out after the holiday!!!;) i just started getting some crazy stuff going on with my ink lights!!! different lights come on and off... i reset them and same deal.. i have reset my waste ink counter aswell and still get the lights.. so i have a problem to fix first:rolleyes: never ran into this one before!! may have some bad carts from switching them out so much!!
 
#116 · (Edited)
I set my rip up for level 3 for the white.. or three passes per line im guessing.. I have some adjustment room just not sure how much before losing a good base in 720.. the color layer is fast no probs there, just have to see what the capabilitys are for the white in 720.. i also added highlight to the color print.. im new at all this so im learning yet.. but i imagine if i reduce my settings i can get more speed... just a guess;) gotta crash..tired................. i dont like this white ink business working on getting rid of this pretreat crap at least this type... working on retroing a eco-solvent for the printer..its proving to be a pain to work out..to little time... to much work:)
 
#119 ·
All of this assumes the actual existence of a $.25 difference in favor of the Brother 782 compared to the Mod1

Digital printers are usually looked at the same as office electronics. 5 year life cycle. So 20,000/5 = $4000 a year so $16 a day for the mod1 compared to the $44 a day the 782 would cost.

Now if the prints are $.25 more expensive on the Mod1 then you eat into that daily difference per print. After 112 prints per day you break even. So I would actually set the bar there. Say 115 prints a day or more and you are better served by the Brother, under 110 and you are better off with the Mod1.

I know the equipment should last more than 5 years but no one really knows the actual number yet.

If we do that same exercise with a 7 year life cycle it looks like: $12 a day for the Mod1 and $32 a day for the Brother. Use that same $.25 per print difference and you get 80 prints a day difference.

What I'm getting at is that the longer you plan on owning the equipment the better off you are paying less per print, even with more than twice the machine price. This is more of a parabolic curve though. The kornit's price requires substantial daily throughput to make the machine price difference viable, but that's a different conversation.

Now if you are only planning on doing 50 prints a day on average then the Mod1 is definitely for you.
 
#122 ·
Epson - 9.02ml of white ink @ .28 per ml = $2.52 1.55ml of cmyk @.28ml = $0.43 Total = $2.95
With all due respect all of these figures are based on a per liter cost of $280.00 per liter, that's the cost per liter on a single bag.

Assuming that there really is a $.25 difference in favor of the Brother 782 then you'd be spending $2000-$2500 more to own the Mod1 per day. So that $35000 difference would disappear in 14-17.5 days. After 14-17.5 days you'd be doing yourself a disservice by using the Mod1
Anyone that prints in high volume utilizing multiple mod1 (or any) printers realize a cost per liter much less then what these calculations are based around.
This changes the perspectives on cost per print and daily output that can be achieved.
Multitasking small cells can produce production outputs that are impossible to achieve on any single or multi-platform machine to date.

It all comes down to what the end user feels comfortable using.
Every one has a passion towards what they own and if it's works for them that's all that matters at the end of the day.
 
#123 ·
With all due respect all of these figures are based on a per liter cost of $280.00 per liter, that's the cost per liter on a single bag.

Anyone that prints in high volume utilizing multiple mod1 (or any) printers realize a cost per liter much less then what these calculations are based around.
This changes the perspectives on cost per print and daily output that can be achieved.
Multitasking small cells can produce production outputs that are impossible to achieve on any single or multi-platform machine to date.

It all comes down to what the end user feels comfortable using.
Every one has a passion towards what they own and if it's works for them that's all that matters at the end of the day.

I am only showing the effect of a $.25 per print difference over different volumes.

It's one big complex math problem that varies based on time to amortize the purchase price and total prints over that time.

If you want to go into cost for preventive maintenance and unexpected service we can add that in too. Though I assume that with the following that these two machines have those two figures are probably equally low.
 
#124 ·
I'm late to the party and I will contribute this:

Topic of this thread:At $3/shirt, isn't a $55K GT-782 too expensive?, NO, because some prints are .10¢ and others 6$, mostly fall in the 1.80¢ realm, although you can print 12$ of ink if you wanted. SO at 12$ a shirt this machine is expensive at 3$ ( 10in x10in ) a pop turning 40 tees and hour, NO.

Inks: I did leave a glass of ink to dry, and what I have right now after 2 moths is a smudge of ink pigment TiO2 and the ink binder that after applying it by brush to a tee and drying it I realize is what makes the white ink so elastic, it feels almost like some sort of Varnish on the fibers . Someone in another post was comparing different epson inks, all the samples dried up and looked nothing like what I have, definitely IMO, the binder for the brother inks are thick and almost plastic like, and might be a factor on washability and hand.

Speed: I don't have a 4880 to try but my older Epson3000 prints a 11x17 at 720 slower than I can print 2 full platen 16x14 tees ( under 5min, White"3"+ Highlight"0"+CMYK), and I bet Printzilla would know which machines can print faster he has owned both brands.

I'm sure a 360x360 print would be blazing fast,if we can agree to overlook the print and just time the travelling platen, wait, we print tees here not travelling platens.

Also In the matter of speed: If you really want to have a David Vs Goliath comparison, with no gimmicks this machine has 2 platens can print the underbase while the other head prints the color, so let's do a 4 tee print comparison, even though DIY redundant machines could do the work, this would no longer be a david vs goliath but 3 or 4 davids, it would still be cheaper to use 4 DIY's than one 782, but not if you where to buy any other 3 or 4 supported epson model printer.

Quality: German13 posted a picture of his resulting print, and maybe Printzilla could too if he has the time, for the sake of comparison. I'm very well aware that this is a DIY project, but It feels wrong not to hold his prints to the same standards that we have been holding all the prints which we have examined. Sorry to say but this is a very amateurish looking print, no to say plain dead awful: artifacts, banding, ghost lines, should I continue? I'm all for the epson's quality, but this is not it, the shark print posted in this thread is unsellable, period.German13 said that his wife was selling them well and with no complaints, but being able to sell something does not infer the quality of the product, just that the price was right according to the client's expectations.

Anajet references: The video being referenced int his thread, does not show the finished product ( for a reason) and contains claims that are completely false. Why are we talking about that video at all? You could use the mod2 video doing the rounds on the net, that IS some serious printing.

Cost: A DIY can have a Return On Investment so fast that you'll be in profit before you can say "be right back". So I don't know why we have to try and match the 782 speed to illustrate how cost effective this machine is, IT JUST IS. DoItYourself, as german13 claims, anyone could, so I really think the match is over, I have to sell 5000 Tees at 10$ profit just to recoup the cost of the machine, while this project will be braking even at 150, you see, match over by 4850 Tees.

Build quality: My grey paper weight is heavier than yours, and If sold for scrap metal I might make a buck or two.

my 5.200.000.02¢ and I'll go open my own thread now, thanks.

regards
 
#125 · (Edited)
I bought a 782 last December, had it a year now. Not exactly thrilled.
You WISH the cost was only $3.00 a shirt..
$3.00 a shirt, give me a break, is that what they're telling people now?
The cost of white ink will eat you alive unless you're doing huge volume, in which case
you don't NEED the savings anyway (referring to the new bulk white ink system which saves over 30% on white ink cost).

The raw ink cost with the 782 can EASILY reach $10 or more per shirt. That's YOUR cost.
Why is this not discussed at the trade show? Why don't they mention this in their low budget commercials? It can get up to $12-14. That's uncommon, but EASY to do. Every piece of art is different and the price will change drastically based on shirt color, the size of print, and quality you want to achieve. If you actually want the shirt to look good (imagine that) you need to put down MORE white and maybe (often) a 2ND PASS OF WHITE! Take your fantasy $3.00 shirt cost and throw it out the window. Whoever told you that was a salesman. In the real world, printing real art, it's higher.
Don't forget to add the cost of the pre-treat either!

The first lesson, for me, was that the only way to make actual money is retail shirt sales ($15.00 per shirt and up). This explains why no one is buying these printers. There's a lot of financially smart people out there, apparently. I was not one of them. I bought this 782 in a hurry. Should not have.

I can't even tell you now many surprises there were after buying it. I felt like I just bought a fancy car from an A-HOLE dealer who hid a bunch of info (lied). I'm not saying that's what happened, that's how I felt.

Trying to make money doing wholesale quantity based runs is a waste of time unless it's running constantly, you have amazing connections/referrals or have some unique profitable nitch. Trying to compete with the screen print world is a joke. I know a guy with a Kornit running practically non stop wholesale and he's lucky if he breaks even, no pun intended.

If I could go back in time, I would not have bought the 782. It's been highly problematic too...
I don't think it's ever gone a month without issues. When it was brand new, it had registration problems, and it took Brother 3 months to fix it. They were not apologetic, they were like "stop complaining"... "user error"..
Brother loves to call everything "user error". Don't even get me started on the "Bill & Teds 2" Builders Emporium home-made quality Lawson pretreat machine which I've had for 6 months and has so many problems. $6000 for a gigantic pile of crap that can be bought at Home Depot.

I will speak highly of the print quality when the machine works and is not acting funny. I can't speak too highly of Brother or the experience of owning a 782 though after buying this machine. Just another greedy corporation. There's a lot of kobe beef and sushi that needs to be paid for in Japan. Lots of first class international airfare for executives that this white ink needs to pay for.

I work with very high end products in another field of business (t-shirts don't pay the bills) and that's what frustrates me so much about these t-shirt printers, pretreaters, etc. When you compare them to the products from other industries I work with, they are JUNK!!!!!!!!!!! it's hard to work in an arena where craftsmanship actually means something, and then have to go spend $6000 on a pretreater which should cost $500 and NOT be pissed off. Brother charges $40 for a piece of plastic and $100 for a piece of rubber. They're worse than Porsche. There's a gigantic retail chain based in So Cal that prints their own shirts, they get special treatment from Brother. When their 782 broke (and yours will too), they got an instant replacement. I wasn't so lucky. Brother only cares about the big guy.

The name "Brother" is misleading. Brother has always had an absolutely terrible reputation with printers and horrible customer service. I only have 20 years of experience with Brother printers. I'm not saying these garment printers are junk, they are the only brand I would even consider, but that in itself is just sad. "Brother" does not have a good reputation. I don't say this out of spite, it's true, and I've always known it. This white ink thing with Brother could've been done so much better and they would've sold way more units. Now they're desperate for sales. I think the pricing is off and they're overly greedy.
 
#129 · (Edited)
I bought a 782 last December, had it a year now. Not exactly thrilled.
You WISH the cost was only $3.00 a shirt..
$3.00 a shirt, give me a break, is that what they're telling people now?
The cost of white ink will eat you alive unless you're doing huge volume, in which case
you don't NEED the savings anyway (referring to the new bulk white ink system which saves over 30% on white ink cost).
Not true, I personally have printed only 3000 shirts in 6 months at 23$(single units) a tee grossing an average of 10$ per tee, no exactly being eaten alive here, that includes tee and pretreat.

The raw ink cost with the 782 can EASILY reach $10 or more per shirt. That's YOUR cost.
Why is this not discussed at the trade show? Why don't they mention this in their low budget commercials? It can get up to $12-14. That's uncommon, but EASY to do. Every piece of art is different and the price will change drastically based on shirt color, the size of print, and quality you want to achieve. If you actually want the shirt to look good (imagine that) you need to put down MORE white and maybe (often) a 2ND PASS OF WHITE! Take your fantasy $3.00 shirt cost and throw it out the window. Whoever told you that was a salesman. In the real world, printing real art, it's higher.
Don't forget to add the cost of the pre-treat either!

Also not true, Max ink lay at 5+3 full 14x16 inches is 30cc in white, and if you add color, the white usage goes down, exemplified in the posted images at the bottom, that comprises a full 16x14 square pooling ( as in you could swim in it) with white, how can you reach 14$ if the price per cc on white is 60cents and on colors .68cents ( without any bulk savings, plain regular priced carts), to reach your 14$ in ink cost you would have to be printing 20cc of ink,and I dear anyone with a DTG to post a job with 20cc's of ink, brother, epson, kornit whoever, not cost but CC's, not to talk about the impracticality of such print: pools of white ( because at 5+3 prints look awful, and the tee can only take so much).

A consistent 16 cc of white or 10 cc of white plus 4 cc of color is unheard off in the course of my 2 years with brother printers. And a full preteated tee (16x19in) goes for .30 cents

Another allegory: a Prius MPg is around 40 my cousin takes it for a drifting session and he goes down to 10, is that a real scenario? I think not, is the Prius a car to go drifting? certainly not.

So if you are doing huge ink lays with maximum coverage, I have no idea why didn't you go whit a screenprinting auto press? didn't you do your homework before giving away your money? Since is the second time I throw that advice your way, I somehow do not feel sorry for you.

The first lesson, for me, was that the only way to make actual money is retail shirt sales ($15.00 per shirt and up). This explains why no one is buying these printers. There's a lot of financially smart people out there, apparently. I was not one of them. I bought this 782 in a hurry. Should not have.
In a hurry? its called IMPULSIVE BUYING, never a good thing to fall for.

I can't even tell you now many surprises there were after buying it. I felt like I just bought a fancy car from an A-HOLE dealer who hid a bunch of info (lied). I'm not saying that's what happened, that's how I felt.
feelings sometimes get in the way of reasoning, breathing helps.

Trying to make money doing wholesale quantity based runs is a waste of time unless it's running constantly, you have amazing connections/referrals or have some unique profitable nitch. Trying to compete with the screen print world is a joke. I know a guy with a Kornit running practically non stop wholesale and he's lucky if he breaks even, no pun intended.
What would you consider wholesale? 1000 10.000 1.000.000? This is about printing t-shirts not about owning printers, and that is where I see many people failing. You can buy a printer and have a clear direction in your head and make it, like a small retailer shifting from ink jet transfers to dtg and doing away with the paper, but anyone who thinks that I'll buy the machine and jobs will rain just because I can print them, and print them all, is utter delusional. I'll use an allegory here:

You are a professional snow plower, and you take jobs from highways to driveways , would you use a 100 ton snowplower on my driveway? HOPE NOT, as I hope I don't see you doing highways with a shovel. AKA: certain jobs require certain tools, is up to the mastery of the operator to know which to use.

If I could go back in time, I would not have bought the 782. It's been highly problematic too...
I don't think it's ever gone a month without issues. When it was brand new, it had registration problems, and it took Brother 3 months to fix it. They were not apologetic, they were like "stop complaining"... "user error"..
Brother loves to call everything "user error". Don't even get me started on the "Bill & Teds 2" Builders Emporium home-made quality Lawson pretreat machine which I've had for 6 months and has so many problems. $6000 for a gigantic pile of crap that can be bought at Home Depot.
Want to fix registration? start with glue on the platten ( spray,double tape, I don't have a preference), I agree that brother could do a better job telling people about how to prepare for optimal registration, and they might have some way to go until it is a streamlined process, but it has become a 2% scenario for me, so show some samples of problems and we might know from experience how to adress them, and if it is a legitimate complain call brother, I did.

I will speak highly of the print quality when the machine works and is not acting funny. I can't speak too highly of Brother or the experience of owning a 782 though after buying this machine. Just another greedy corporation. There's a lot of kobe beef and sushi that needs to be paid for in Japan. Lots of first class international airfare for executives that this white ink needs to pay for.
I'm I supposed to take your accusations seriously? what axe are you grinding here? against kobe beef and sushi? against 1st class tickets? surely against brother, but not exactly making sense are we? I hope you start calling all companies who make a profit greedy that'll show some coherence in your thought process.

I work with very high end products in another field of business (t-shirts don't pay the bills) and that's what frustrates me so much about these t-shirt printers, pretreaters, etc. When you compare them to the products from other industries I work with, they are JUNK!!!!!!!!!!! it's hard to work in an arena where craftsmanship actually means something, and then have to go spend $6000 on a pretreater which should cost $500 and NOT be pissed off. Brother charges $40 for a piece of plastic and $100 for a piece of rubber. They're worse than Porsche. There's a gigantic retail chain based in So Cal that prints their own shirts, they get special treatment from Brother. When their 782 broke (and yours will too), they got an instant replacement. I wasn't so lucky. Brother only cares about the big guy.
Except you, not a single 782 owner in this forum ( few but some) has seen any breaking down occurring, so we'll discuss this when the time comes, if it does ( I'm certain I'll have to replace 8 heads and probably tubes at a cost of around 10K some day, but plenty of users with 100K prints on their 541 and still going strong.) Your complains about cost for parts might be legitimate but buried in all this bashing it just looks like whining, and remember all is made in japan, with their wages ans standards you can buy made in china with the social cost inherent to it. I'm not a big guy, only buying 4 carts of white every 2 months and color every 3, and they are nice to me, they even sent a complimentary blue cartridge after we were having issues whit the blue head, I get free next day shipping straight from their european central in germany, so the inks are fresher than ice, they don't tuck me in bed or wake me up with a Breakfast Juice, but I can't complain.

The name "Brother" is misleading. Brother has always had an absolutely terrible reputation with printers and horrible customer service. I only have 20 years of experience with Brother printers. I'm not saying these garment printers are junk, they are the only brand I would even consider, but that in itself is just sad. "Brother" does not have a good reputation. I don't say this out of spite, it's true, and I've always known it. This white ink thing with Brother could've been done so much better and they would've sold way more units. Now they're desperate for sales. I think the pricing is off and they're overly greedy.
The name "OATMEAL" is misleading. OATMEAL has always had an absolutely terrible reputation with posts and horrible writing skills. I only have 3 months of experience with OATMEALS posts. I'm not saying these posts are junk, they are posted on the brother forum so it is only natural that we read them, but that in itself is just sad. "OATMEAL" does not have a good reputation. I don't say this out of spite, it's true, and I've always known it. This bashing thing with Brother could've been done so much better and he would've got more thanks you's. Now he is desperate for attention. I think the reasoning is off and he is overly ........ get the point already.

I'm out.
 

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