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Discussion, tips, pictures, reviews and peer to peer support for current and future Brother GT-541 and Brother GT-782 DTG owners.



[Brother GT-381] Brother or new Epson SureColor F2000

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Old October 9th, 2013 Oct 9, 2013 5:14:21 AM -   #1 (permalink)
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Default Brother or new Epson SureColor F2000

I'm in the market for a DTG printer and needed advice as to which printer would better fulfill my needs as a business just starting out in the T-shirt making industry. All advice would be appreciated. I already have a heat press so I would just need a pretreat machine and the DTG printer. And I've heard some bad things about printing on Gildan (which I just recently ordered) can anyone confirm? Thanks guys, I'm a newbie!
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Old October 11th, 2013 Oct 11, 2013 8:01:23 AM -   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Brother or new Epson SureColor F2000

Good question,
Both has pros and cons.
Both are very good company.
Machine:
EPSON is lower price. 25%. Compare to 381 model of Brother. EPSON
Speed: same IMO. SAME
INK: Epson is lower. By 26%. White ink and CYMK same price by Epson. EPSON
Warranty: Epson is cover bumper to bumper.include Printhead. EPSON
Head: Brother has commercial grade but price of Printhead could be issue. BROTHER
Quality out put: By today, Brother. Epson is still working on it until Nov' we will see final quality at SGIA show 10/23-25. Brother.
Service: Do not determined yet. SAME.
Part cost : EPSON because they have been digital Printer company forever since Brother is newer than them. EPSON.
Worldwide branches: EPSON wins.
BUGs: Brother killed all. EPSON not determined YET: Brother.
IMHO
If you have to buy one between TWO TODAY. I will say BROTHER. If not watch how the game goes. Popcorn and coke ready and put remote on your lap.
We all predict Brother will get direct effect before anyone. This is the example. I was right on the money. read EPSON forum. . Anajet is too small to be in this game and AA too. and many others. LOL.

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Old October 11th, 2013 Oct 11, 2013 3:51:12 PM -   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Brother or new Epson SureColor F2000

If you are looking to buy within the next several month, go with Brother. It is a great quality printer and Brother does a great job backing it up with service and support. The Epson machine may turn out to be just as good but for now, you just don't know.
 
 
Old October 12th, 2013 Oct 12, 2013 4:40:19 PM -   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Brother or new Epson SureColor F2000

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonR
If you are looking to buy within the next several month, go with Brother. It is a great quality printer and Brother does a great job backing it up with service and support. The Epson machine may turn out to be just as good but for now, you just don't know.
Can't agree more but while you spend 5 digit $$$$$ I will take my remote and watch the game first before bet. We all gona win if we can bet last moment of the football.
Ink price, warranty, out put quality will determine which way.
We just cannot win with higher ink price and less out put quality.
Today you are right but Tomorrow you may not right.
Next several month is way too much stretch. Next few days or couple weeks max.
Cheers! Have a nice weekend.
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Last edited by allamerican; October 12th, 2013 at 05:50 PM..
 
Old October 13th, 2013 Oct 13, 2013 6:27:40 AM -   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Brother or new Epson SureColor F2000

If Reggie should purchase the machine now or wait, should depend more on if he will be losing business without the machine. There will always be the "next" printer that may be better than what's currently available. Business is risk and the sales being lost can be a larger risk then the next great machine being better.
The quality produced from a correctly run DTG (top name DTGs) will be acceptable for 98 percent of customers. The Brother supply cost is higher for now, but they have recently lowered that cost. If they find Epson or any other competitor is a threat to their market share, it's a good bet they will cut supply prices again.
 
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Old October 13th, 2013 Oct 13, 2013 11:23:09 AM -   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Brother or new Epson SureColor F2000

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonR
If Reggie should purchase the machine now or wait, should depend more on if he will be losing business without the machine. There will always be the "next" printer that may be better than what's currently available. Business is risk and the sales being lost can be a larger risk then the next great machine being better.
The quality produced from a correctly run DTG (top name DTGs) will be acceptable for 98 percent of customers. The Brother supply cost is higher for now, but they have recently lowered that cost. If they find Epson or any other competitor is a threat to their market share, it's a good bet they will cut supply prices again.
So true,
If there was no Epson I am sure Brother will maintain high supply price.
If there was no Epson Modifiers will maintain their machine price.
If there was no Epson there will be no this sort of thread.
Every one wears different shoes size. Even on size 10 , some fits well and others are tight or lose. Buy it now or later is totally depends on Buyer. He can wait until weekend or toe is sticking out from his sneaker or have a date.&
Epson brought New Movement to DTG. New Kid on the Block. He is handsome and tall. Either hide girlfriend and grab your ball or Find the way to Challenge him.
Good luck with your dilemma, lol. Good dilemma because many are do not have fund ready.
Cheers! Beers are on me always.
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Old October 14th, 2013 Oct 14, 2013 3:46:16 AM -   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Brother or new Epson SureColor F2000

I may was wrong on Printhead. I believed Printhead was Made by Brother but one bird contacted me and singing to me about Brother Printhead is made by Kyocera's old model.
It is not the first time I was wrong, lol. Who knows what is the fact? Except themselves.
If so Kyocera is the one of best Printhead available. Richo, Seiko(Epson), EPSON, Spectra etc.
Cheers! Have a great day.
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Old May 4th, 2014 May 4, 2014 6:02:43 PM -   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Brother or new Epson SureColor F2000

Epson 2000 print is..
- cheaper
- brighter sharper.
- softer hand, on Black shirt solid print = very soft hand barely feel it.
nice rip software easy, nice head wipe during print with roller system.
White ink circulation, reduce waste and reduce time as it is automatic.
Cure times are 35 seconds for CMYK Prints
.. and 75 seconds for W+W+CMYK prints.

It prints a little slower than the GT 381 but not bad.
Extra few seconds on print is no big deal, 75 seconds to cure, is close to being a problem.
Many prints we do are 45-60 seconds and 30 seconds cure.
Different person pre-treating in another room with different press.

1-Dual Air Fusion heat press can handle two GT 381 printers no problem.
(probably 3 printers)
Start getting into 75 or 90 second cure times and things slow down quite a bit.
Everything is about Labour.
None the less.. after 15 months in DTG world, I see reliable machine with very little down time in maintenance as the #1 most important thing!!
You can predict when promising orders, on a slower machine, but when it is down for maintenance it is hard to predict when orders will be ready for pick up- or ship.
GT 381 has been super reliable , but costly ink.
All parts easy access and doesn't take long before you see how the entire machine works and it is pretty simple reliable mechanics.
Also the Pre-Treat is something for you to consider, Brother is not as sticky-corrosive as another brand we tried. = Less cleaning, flushing daily with the Viper, We have never in 15 months had a clog with pre treat (or ink).

As we get busier, we look at all models to add to our existing GT 381 and Epson looks nice for it's features, it's print quality, and it's low cost of white. (I don't know about its new pre-treat but on the black shirts freshly printed it was hard to detect)
Pre treat is my only hate in this.. and something to strongly look (all details of it) when choosing what Brand printer to go with.
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Last edited by stevegamble; May 4th, 2014 at 06:06 PM.. Reason: spelling
 
Old May 4th, 2014 May 4, 2014 6:08:09 PM -   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Brother or new Epson SureColor F2000

You should download Garment Creator from Epson. Fill in the ink costs, then RIP a design. Now run that design through your Brother print driver. You will be surprised at who wins the cost battle.
 
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Old May 4th, 2014 May 4, 2014 6:14:49 PM -   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Brother or new Epson SureColor F2000

Quote:
Originally Posted by Printzilla
You should download Garment Creator from Epson. Fill in the ink costs, then RIP a design. Now run that design through your Brother print driver. You will be surprised at who wins the cost battle.
Hey Thanks very much,
I heard about that last week, but forgot the software name.
I will try that tomorrow, it is my only complaint is the white ink cost.
Although we had about a 20% price reduction recently.
If that trend continues we'll soon be in great shape.

Stahls who was showing us the Epson 2000 and print samples showed us that their rip software was producing way, WAY more vibrant prints at 40% less cost.
quicker and easier to boot.
see below.


Realize your Epson® DTG printer's full potential.

Get the best DTG results possible with this raster image processor software developed specifically for the Epson® SureColor® F2000 Direct-to-Garment printer.

ImageWorx® DTG RIP software makes Direct-to-Garment printing easier and more efficient, simplifying your workflow and increasing productivity.

Features like automatic black removal, per-job cost analysis, Fluid Mask™ masking software, and integration with Cadworx® online design service will help you get the most out of your DTG printer.

Powered by CADLink®.
http://www.stahls.ca/dtg-rip-software

By the way it is $1399.00

Every machine has its benefits, we do love our GT 381.
I'll post the comparison.


Dri fit Poly shirts is our next challenge.. in time I suspect.
We have a Roland VS540 for heat pressing stickers on them for now..lol. I can't believe Roland promotes it for apparel, it's a sticker.
But for now it works I guess.
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Last edited by stevegamble; May 4th, 2014 at 06:22 PM..
 
Old May 4th, 2014 May 4, 2014 6:51:06 PM -   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Brother or new Epson SureColor F2000

I can say first hand the epson is running great. pretty much takes care of itself. I will agree with the above statements that there are 3rd party rips that will save you approx 40% over the Garment Creator Driver, not a true rip. You will also have better control over prints and get an overall softer hand. There are several 3rd party rips out there not just Cadlink. Each dealer seems to have adopted their own. There are also rips a bit cheaper.
Consider the number of heads in the Brother and replacement cost of each. Epson warranty covers the printhead as well.
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Old May 4th, 2014 May 4, 2014 7:39:11 PM -   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Brother or new Epson SureColor F2000

Randy, would you be willing to run a file through the Neorip for the 2000? I do not believe the 40% claim. I know the stock Epson RIP is using more cc's than the stock Brother RIP for the same design, because I have them both, and that is running the Brother at 1200x1200. I also have the cad link versions, but not the NEO version. If so let's do the Great Dane surf shark at 12" wide, and post a screen shot of the volume of ink used. If you do not have it, we can go another direction. I am really interested in the results.

Back when I had the 782, most prints were cheaper on it than my Epson based machines due to the fact that the Epsons used way more ink. Cheaper ink, but way more. I have ripped 4 designs and compared the 381 to the stock Epson Garment Creator, and the Epson uses more ink.

Looking forward to your results, as I would love to see the difference in cost between the drivers and RIP's for both machines.
 
Old May 4th, 2014 May 4, 2014 8:34:54 PM -   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Brother or new Epson SureColor F2000

I believe I said a generic statement of 3rd party rips could save up to 40% over GC.
This would be dependent on the art work. So as you know it may save 20% for example on surf shark.it may save 50% on another piece of art. Good to see ya here u were laying low for a while
I will see what I can do though.
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Old May 5th, 2014 May 5, 2014 5:15:26 AM -   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Brother or new Epson SureColor F2000

I think my Stahls dealer was pointing out that his 3'rd party rip was producing a better looking print, for less cost per print.
and the 40% was on his One example he was showing off.
and the print was Much brighter.
Who knows what other (possible)variables went into to producing their A vs B comparison ?
I just know what I saw actually was pretty impressive.
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Old May 5th, 2014 May 5, 2014 6:16:42 AM -   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Brother or new Epson SureColor F2000

I believe that the print was better, the cad link and NEO RIP's are great and as Randy pointed out, on some prints it may save on the ink. However, I just wanted to be clear on the "save 40%" comment. I can manipulate an image in Photoshop, and then in the Brother driver, and change ink consumption drastically, but that is gaming the print and does not universally apply to all prints, and certainly not to all users. I just want an apples to apples comparison.

I will be as happy as anyone if the Epson printer with any RIP will consistently beat the Brother ink costs per print by using less volume of a less expensive ink on the same design with quality output, just has not happened in my limited testing of the RIP's. I cannot wait to see Randy's results.
 






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