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I have been trying for a while to find a good wholesaler for bamboo shirts. I noticed an old thread was bumped up and it got me searching for more info when I came across this:
Spreadshirt uses Jonano and I've tried one of the other companies listed.
This is interesting as well:
Quote:
The settlements bar these companies from claiming that any textile product: is made of bamboo or bamboo fiber; is manufactured using an environmentally friendly process; or is antimicrobial or retains the anti-microbial properties of the product from which it is made, unless the claims are true, not misleading, and substantiated by competent and reliable scientific evidence.
That is a great article. I remember reading something I think on Continentals site where they talked about how bamboo shirts were made. Is that the article you are talking about Rodney? Where they actually wrote about how alot of bamboo is not as friendly as it sounds?
__________________
Always do right; this will gratify some people and astonish the rest. ~~~Mark Twain BobbieLee www.brightlittlebeginnings.com
I have been trying for a while to find a good wholesaler for bamboo shirts. I noticed an old thread was bumped up and it got me searching for more info when I came across this:
Apparently, three companies have been caught trying to pass off Rayon shirts as 100% Bamboo
Cheryl
Interesting stuff, thanks!! I just bought a few samples of Alo shirts from S&S which are 65% bamboo or something like that and are very soft and comfortable - hope they're not rayon!!
If they're bamboo, then they are rayon - that's the whole point of what the FTC is saying.
Not all rayon comes from bamboo, but all bamboo fabric is rayon.
The FTC thinks it's irrelevant what the source of the cellulose is, because the end product is the same. My take is that the source does matter if it has a different environmental impact. My understanding is that rayon was usually made from other plants, and the move to bamboo is a relatively recent one. If bamboo is more environmentally friendly to grow, and the harvesting process is much the same, then bamboo rayon would be a more environmentally friendly product than other rayon.
I suppose the FTC's position is that consumers aren't sophisticated enough to be thinking about it in those terms; that they actually expect the end product to be somehow different (which it isn't - the technology to produce this fabric has been around longer than polyester).
I agree with the subtance of the FTC's argument: bamboo is not as environmentally friendly as some consumers and bloggers have chosen to believe, and the claim that the fabric retains the properties of the plant is silly (I largely blame The Internet Blog Machine for this: it has a tendency to uncritically pass on marketing hype it doesn't understand as fact).
I'm just not sure their main thrust is true: rayon is rayon is rayon. If they'd addressed that head on, then great - as it is they haven't answered the only question I actually had ("Cradle to grave, is bamboo rayon in any way better than other rayon?"). They're so focused on the fact that it's all just cellulose - they're not different in any way from that point in the manufacture onward - that they're ignoring that cellulose doesn't just come to exist in thin air.
No clothing is environmentally friendly. The idea the FTC is putting forward that bamboo not being environmentally friendly would come as a shock is silly; only the willfully naive would have believed that in the first place. The question is is it environmentally friendlier than alternatives. Is bamboo rayon better than other rayon? They haven't answered the only important question.
This ruling does give me hope for one thing though: people have been so determined to believe, without any proof, that bamboo is good for the environment that the obvious question hasn't been asked: Which is worse? 1) The harmful chemicals used in the production of bamboo rayon, or 2) The excessive water consumption and erosion caused by cotton, and (where applicable) the pesticides used to grow it?
People just assumed bamboo/rayon was better. Now maybe we can actually ask the question, which is better: bamboo rayon, or cotton? Bamboo rayon, or organic cotton? (maybe it's better than the one but worse than the other)
As small business owners and consumers we just don't have the resources (knowledge base or money) to answer these important questions. It's been frustrating wanting to know the answers for three years. Hopefully this 'man behind the curtain' FTC press release will inspire someone who does have the ability to answer to start looking.
More likely there'll be an irrational backlash that matches the irrational support.
Environmental impact can only be measured in relative terms ("What's the best we can do?", not "Is this good?"), and it's about time we got that out in the open and stopped trying to make ourselves sleep better at night by lying about things being zero impact.
Everything sucks. Which sucks less? In that regard, I really don't think this FTC decision is helping.
__________________ "Ah, Henny Penny," said Chicken Little, "the sky is falling, and I must go and tell the king."
Ok I finally found the article I was looking for from continental which does say that the process of bamboo is not so great because of all the chemicals that are used to break down the fibers to be usable. Here is the article for those that would like to read it. Continental Clothing USA - Rayon Made from Bamboo
__________________
Always do right; this will gratify some people and astonish the rest. ~~~Mark Twain BobbieLee www.brightlittlebeginnings.com
Some of the claims mentioned in it are the kind of thing the FTC has labelled fraudulent. But some of them aren't, and assuming they hold up (some apply to rayon rather than being bamboo specific, or have to do with the impact of growing the plant itself before being made into fabric) then they're examples of the little things that matter when you're comparing which fabric has more/less environmental impact.
For example, the article claims that bamboo rayon has better dye uptake than cotton, and better natural lustre. The first makes the dyeing process more efficient (which has got to be a good thing), and the second means it doesn't need mercerising (again, less chemicals).
There's no doubt some nasty stuff goes into making bamboo rayon. The same is true of cotton though - even organic cotton.
The way I see it we need to add every part of the process from empty field through to finished t-shirt in the buyer's hands to a balance sheet and compare them.
Contrast for example the fact that bamboo helps rebuild eroded soil (like hemp) with the fact that cotton contributes to erosion. Typical cotton production uses heavy pesticides to farm the plant. Typical bamboo production doesn't.
If you're talking the plant itself, bamboo clearly beats cotton. If you're talking the process of turning the fibre into the fabric, cotton likely beats bamboo. It's pretty hard to compare those two and work out which is better overall.
(that link gives some useful information for that comparison though, thanks BobbieLee)
The blog article that makes up most of that link was originally posted almost two years ago, so obviously there's been information out there for a while if I had been more motivated to look (I don't use bamboo anyway at the moment so it was only so relevant - I do think there's potential there though).
There was also some useful information in the comments section of the original entry: rayon can be (not necessarily is) made from wood chips. So you could use the wood chips that are a byproduct of the logging industry - recycling the waste of another industry ultimately being a great way to make something more sustainable or efficient. Potentially it's an argument against the use of bamboo to make rayon - though it depends on a lot of factors, like how practical it is to get the woodchips to where they can be processed for making yarn (transport being one of the least sustainable aspects of industry).
Another of the comments makes the argument that bamboo rayon and viscose rayon are not processed the same way, so while the end product may ultimately be the same the route to get there (and the environmental impact) are not. If such things are true, the FTC's insistence on combining both into one category is not useful.
Whenever I read these debates, I keep coming back to hemp and wondering why that doesn't get talked about more as an option. There's not a lot of information out there on it, but what I have seen is very positive. Maybe there's a good argument against it to be made (if so, I'd like to hear it), but it seems like it should be entering the debate more strongly than it ever does.
__________________ "Ah, Henny Penny," said Chicken Little, "the sky is falling, and I must go and tell the king."
Here's an article that tries to address the FTC's article: About Wazoodle
Quote:
Whenever I read these debates, I keep coming back to hemp and wondering why that doesn't get talked about more as an option. There's not a lot of information out there on it, but what I have seen is very positive. Maybe there's a good argument against it to be made (if so, I'd like to hear it), but it seems like it should be entering the debate more strongly than it ever does.
The hemp t-shirts I've worn and felt haven't felt too buttery. The nicest one I've felt is from htnaturals.com, but most are really scratchy.
I don't know if that's the way they are meant to feel because they don't want to process it *too much*, but I can see why it hasn't gotten the buzz that bamboo has if comfort is a main factor for people.
Footnote: as I was double checking the htnaturals link I found this on the htnaturals site. Looks like they are making some strides with hemp with a cotton-like feel called CRAILAR (and they're working with Hanes to get it out to a wider market)
Quote:
Larisa and I founded HTnaturals over 10 years when we were fresh out of school and ready to change the world. We’ve learned a lot while building this business and believe more than ever that people care about the choices they make and that the demand for environmentally sensitive products is increasing – even in these difficult economic times.
It became clear to us early on that the quality of eco apparel, specifically hemp apparel, needed to be improved before we could entice consumers, farmers, and politicians to promote the growing of hemp in North America. In 2004 we partnered with the National Research Council of Canada and the Alberta Research Council to develop new processes for transforming Canadian grown hemp into a soft cotton-like alternative called CRAILAR. If you’ve been following our progress you’ll know that we’ve been successful in this goal and have spun our fibres on regular cotton spinning equipment resulting in cloth with applications ranging from T-shirts to carpet. We are now in the midst of commercializing this technology and exploring partnerships with some of the worlds leading brands. We hope you’ll be seeing CRAILAR® on store shelves in the next 18 months. (visit us at www.crailar.com and www.naturallyadvanced.com) We are proud to announce that we have recently signed a multi-phase Joint Development Agreement with Hanes (www.hanes.com). We are working with Hanes to incorporate Crailar into their apparel items and are very pleased to be working with such a reputable company.
The next couple of years will be critical in our evolution and require 100% of our focus to ensure we don’t let down the farmers, processors, and shareholders who are counting on us to deliver. As a result, we’ve made the decision to discontinue HTnaturals and focus entirely on CRAILAR®. HTnaturals has played an important part in getting us this far and so have our many customers. We truly appreciate your support over the years and wish you all the best going forward.
I have a 2 year degree in textile manufacturing and have spent most of my entire working career in the yarn manufacturing segment of the textile industry. Some parts of the current "green" movement concerns me with it's lack of information and the level of commercialism. On a related topic, in the last few years organic cotton has became a good seller. I will not say that this is a bad thing, but the product comes with some qualifications. First in order to knit organic yarns into cloth for t shirts, paraffin wax must be applied to the yarn during the manufacturing process. Paraffin is a petroleum based produce, more or less a by-product from refining oil. This wax is specially formulated for processing textiles with various additives etc., it often takes a very specific wax formulation in order for the yarn to be knitted without some difficulty. Nobody that I know of has shown up at a textile yarn mill trying to develop and sell a natural wax for organic cotton, based on bees wax for example. I would guess there are quite a few technical issues with developing such a product, for example bees wax melts at low temperatures. At the knitting machine that transforms yarn into knitted cloth for t shirts, some type of lubricant is sprayed onto the knitting needles. Often this is a light mineral oil. Once the cloth is knitted it must be scoured, bleached and/or dyed. All of these processes involve the use of products that are not necessarily organic.
The growing of organic cotton by itself isn't likely to be sustainable on a long term basis for a variety of reasons. If a person is a student of 19th century US history, they might know that the westward expansion into some states was partly a result of the exhaustion of the soil on farms in the Southern US, as a result of "organic cotton" farming. Cotton farmers moved outside of the original Southeastern states and into the Gulf states. At the same time, there is the issue of the crop destroying boll weevil, without proper application of insecticides, this insect could one again plague the cotton growing regions.
Sure organic cotton is a nice feel good product for rich kids, but it isn't the answer to the environmental issues we face. The cotton might have been organic grown, but at least a half dozen chemicals were necessary to turn that organic cotton into the t shirt they wear. Add a little ink to that organic cotton t shirt and your talking about the use of another half dozen chemicals.
The source of real 100% organic clothing would be from a cottage industry producer, and not from textiles at the industrial level. At the same time I will not take anything away from something that is an ever slight improvement from the point of view of some people. Simply stated, organic grown cotton, doesn't mean the product doesn't have any contact with chemicals once it's left the field and entered into any one of the variety of factories along the way to this cotton becoming a t shirt.
Consumers would also be pleasantly surprised to learn of some of the natural products that can be used....such as banana and coconut oil. Once I worked in a plant that used a paraffin wax with added coconut oil, the entire plant smelled of coconut macaroons! Unfortunately this would be washed out in later processes.
Synthetic yarns are not altogether a bad thing. In fact cotton dust can be a very serious issue in yarn spinning plants, causing serious health problems for some employees. Some synthetic yarns can be very clean to process.
If you want the very best yarn in your t shirts, ask for 100% American made, ring spun, combed cotton yarn, it meets standards not applied to imported yarns.
Last edited by Cam Lynch; August 21st, 2009 at 07:13 PM.
Some notes on hemp. It was and is used to make rope, a product not known for feeling soft. It is an issue of fiber fineness. Cultivating hemp, is often encouraged by individuals friendly to illegal drug users. It has been reported that domestic cultivation of the crop would make the job of law enforcement more difficult.
Printing pot leaf t shirts for the local head shop, on the other hand has a higher level of integerity, from my point of view.
I think we all know a lot of old stoners with ruined lungs, enough of a reason to not get involved with hemp, at any level.
My vote is for organic cotton over hemp for a variety or reasons. To make a fiber as course as hemp into something soft enough to make t shirts out of, either involves using a lot of energy or chemicals. Some of the fiber this company deals with such as flax is known to cause serious health problems. Hmm, maybe they are selling a good story, for the profit.
If someone is looking for an interesting speciality fiber for t shrts, a few years back a lady was developing a strain of cotton that grows with natural color.
Last edited by Cam Lynch; August 21st, 2009 at 08:13 PM.
Whenever I read these debates, I keep coming back to hemp and wondering why that doesn't get talked about more as an option. There's not a lot of information out there on it, but what I have seen is very positive. Maybe there's a good argument against it to be made (if so, I'd like to hear it), but it seems like it should be entering the debate more strongly than it ever does.
Short answer: War on Drugs.
US used to grow lots of hemp until technological advances turned it into a competitor for wood to make paper, etc. At that time, you will see in US history a very coordinated effort to demonize it. At present, enough people associate hemp with marijuana and don't understand the difference so they lump them together into the war on drugs; therefore, it is still illegal to grow in the US and I believe that they try to put pressure on other countries to justify the war.
Hemp is starting to come back up in Canada from what I understand. From what I've read, hemp is making a come back in most places (or wasn't affected and just receiving media attention?) I foresee Canada dragging the USA into a realistic drug policy by example at some point in the future. If anyone wants to disagree, fine, but please read up on Portugal's complete decriminalization of all drugs for personal use back in 2001 and how well it has worked out for them.
Bamboo manufactureres caught lying 
