freebird1963

So whats the word on the shrinkage ?
Do they heat press good ?
anyone get the pics of the comparisons ?

Anymore feedback on them ?

Thanks
Mark

__________________
SEMPER FI

 

Reply With Quote

Brtp4

No change on the shrinkage, in fact I washed another sample and got the same result.

On the positive side, the epac sports guys got in touch with me immediately and had me send the shirts back to them (although thus far, on my dime....). They do seem interested in correcting this - but make no mistake, they shrunk.

FYI I bought and washed some AA samples and had a very good result. I would prefer not to do business with them but they clearly make a very good product.

BP

 

Reply With Quote

ChameleonPrints

Why would you prefer not to do business with AA?

 

Reply With Quote

Brtp4

I previously worked for a good sized, and unnamed, action sports company. None of my experience was direct, but our purchasing manager consistently pulled his hair out w/aa and finally took them off the approved vendor list.

My direct experience is admittedly limited.

BP

 

Reply With Quote

dominici

I have got both AA and Epac and in my opinion the shrinkage is exactly the same. If you put a tshirt in a tumbledryer then they will shrink a lot. This is normal.

 

Reply With Quote

Brtp4

Suuure....

How about this: I have tables with before and after specs on both. However, instead of me posting these, why don't you post your actual, exact specs?

Man, it drives me nuts when I see this. I have no axe to grind with EPac and hope they do well. They have been way above average with me for service, and their pricing is great. But please, I have worked with apparel far too long for "opinions" and generalizations like the one about tumble drying. Please.

The apparel business is inherently subjective enough already. People already opine about products too much. It used to drive me crazy when one of my developers would come to me recommending a blank because they liked it - personally. I have stuff that I like also, and sometimes, in some cases, that is how I choose. But this forum should also have information for people to make business choices. And I can tell you all that there are definitely people on here who - what was it called...astroturfing? - are manipulating the posts to promote their company.

If this is really going to be an ongoing debate, then I will take some of the BRAND NEW AA and EPac shirts I have, measure them both before and after, wash and dry them together, post the specs, and take digital pics all everything for some additional verification. I already did this test, already know the results, and do not see a need. But, if my credibility is going to be questioned with generalizations, then I can.

As an alternative though, I hope that companies evolve and improve their product until it TESTS out to meet or exceed the market leaders.

BP

 

Reply With Quote

chbbbbbb

standard shrinkage is deginated by AATCC which is global standard.
Based on standard, 100% cotton jergey is 5-7 % is best result.
For example pacific sports size XL length is 30.5"X 6%= 1.83" shrunk is normal.
This shrnikage is coming from natural cotton staple shrunk mostly.
Usally, varience depend on cotton growing location, 4-5 % shrunk on cotton staple on 1st & 2nd wash with tumble.
Temperature of tumble dryer is also varience factor, max temperature is 2-3 % more shrunk than moderate, but it's relax within 15-20 min when shirts cool down,
and cold water & hot water is varience factor as well (1-2 %).
So need to check carefully and make judgement is best way, I think.

pacspo use only USA grown coton yarn only which is one of best quality in the world, it's says 4 % shrink on cotton staple.
If you test warm water(40-45 F) and moderate temp on tumble and measure 10-15 min after, I believe you will get same result.(around 6 %)

 

Reply With Quote

Brtp4

Ok, fine, thank you for explaining industry standards.


FYI it looks like you are cuttting on a different bias than AA.....

BP

 

Reply With Quote

chbbbbbb

Hi Brian,
I called and asked measured results from web customer service person,Ki.
You send back total 4 shirts washed.
PM30 Black 28.4" (you put tag on 1 wash)
PM30 Lt.Navy 27.4" ( tag on 3 wash)
PM30 Charcoal 27.8" (tag on 3 wash)
PM30ESW Black 30" (tag on unwashed)

Now Understood what's happened.
Pm30 Black is PASSED with 1 wash.
The other 2 shirts FAILED with 3 wash. (AATCC has higher standard 3 wash)
Ki did'nt knew that you are looking for high end product,
if he knew that probably he recommended PM30ESW only.
Because PM30 ESW is under 3% shrinkage,it's already washed garment.
ESW means Extra Softness and Washed garment.

We were concentrated our biz to retailer market during last 3 years with PM30.
couple of colors selected and decorated for target,kohl's and walmart by our customer - licensee screen printer.
We started web site introducing from end of march.
Please understand it's just happening because new comer.
Ki will be contact you to try to solve this problem,he is web customer service personnel.

FYI we produced 48,000 pcs T-shirts a day.
We have quality control system and I'm a person to charge.
If you have any further question Please contact to Ki and will reply back to you.
Thanks your comments.

 

Reply With Quote

chbbbbbb

Test result of PM30 Black XL

1st wash length 5.9%(1.625" shrunk) width 2.1%(0.5" shrunk)
2nd wash length 7.6% (2.25" shrunk) width 4.2%( 1" shrunk)
3rd wash length 7.6% (same) width 4.2%( same )

This is typical results that natural cotton fiber shrunk itself until wash twice.
Plus another reason is garment lost cotton fiber 1-2% during 1-3 wash procedure and so shrunk more and then have stable after.

The best way is pick pre-washed garment (ESW) when you need high end product.

FYI pre-washed and preshrunk is different.
Preshrunk means treated compactionized fabric on machine for better shrinkage.
PM30 - preshrunk product
PM30ESW - pre washed product

Thanks and have a good day to all !!

 

Reply With Quote

Brtp4

Ok, this is starting to bug me.....

First of all, I am new to this particular forum, but I don't think I have ever seen such shameless SPAMMING by a company. Astroturfing, whatever, the guys from EPac such as Cbbbbbbb are using this forum as advertising, and frankly, bending technical info (and perhaps the truth) to promote.

When I posted my issues with shrinkage, I immediately received a phone call from someone from EPac (who is obviously following this forum VERY closely). The guy seemed in denial quite a bit, but I withheld judgement on the company because I was impressed that they cared anough about their products to check with a user.

They asked me to send shirts back, which I did, at my expense. I passed along all my results and even washed additional, samples to verify them.

Here is the reply I received:

Dear Mr. Price,

Thank you for sending us back 4 shirts.
We have received them, and I have passed on to our lab staff. We will run some more tests and once we find out the results I will be able to contact back to you by next week.

There are few things that I would like to point out:
- Please know that a standard wash is: 1 time wash with cold water and tumble dry with low temperature. This information is also provided in the care label attached on our t-shirts. Please review them carefully for a proper caring of shirts.
- Any action disregarding the stated method of wash and dry on the care label, we are not responsible of its results.
- For this time, you may qualify for a full refund if the result matches what you have previously stated on the forum. (Shirts getting shrinkage over 10%) Our measurement of body length is different from your statement. Now, we are testing the black t-shirt that you returned without any wash on it.

I'm sorry for not knowing that you were looking for the high-end product. If you needed to test a shirt with 3 washes I would've definitely recommended you with PM30ESW which already comes pre-washed.
May I ask the reason for washing the shirts 3 times?
It does not seem too conventional way of testing compared to other customers we had so far.

Thank you for cooperating with us.


The first thing is that their shirts flat out shrink too much. Period. Regardless of their test method, I washed them with two other brands using the same technique, at the same time. The EPac shirts shrank approx 8% - 10% after one wash, and more after two additional washes.

Regardless of their test method, and how unrealistic it likely was, I washed multiple samples from three brands AT THE SAME TIME, so I have an accurate control system. Both brands performed much better than Epac I assume that if the method changes, their shirts may fare better, but other brands will also (and I am confident that my method reflects real users). Either way, the end result is that comparatively, EPac shirts performed the worst of my three barnds sampled.

The second thing that has me really mad is that I know my results are accurate, but they seem unconcerned with why, and mainly focused on keeping this thread going. I would have been thrilled if this turned into a technical disussion, but to blanket-say that my test method is wrong (and I love the part about asking why I washed them three times....who would EVER do that...) is irresponsible.

I was already mad, but then, when I noted that I "may" qualify for a refund, I laughed. (oh yeah, nice hotmail address too guys). It's about $25, not enough to hurt me financially, but enough to make me remember.

The bottom line for me is that I always try to be an early-adopter, but in my experience the quality is not there yet. Additionally, I feel there was an emphasis on saying "everything is OK" when my shrinkage results indicated otherwise. I do not mean to trash them here, but I came on this thread to learn from others who makes the best products, and now I want to pass along my experiences in case anyone else is looking for similar info.

I am sure that "members" will offer their opinions and rebuttals here. As always, the internet offers info, and we all can use it as we feel is best.

BP

 

Reply With Quote

MotowearUSA

Brian,
Thank you for your informative posts. I just found this thread and read it from the beginning. I thought I had found an alternative to AA for my sons' clothing line. When the shrinkage issue came up I remembered them saying something similar about District Threads shirts. They really liked them out of the box but didn't appreciate the fact that they seemed to turn into "belly shirts" after washing! Sounds like a similar problem here. I, too, couldn't help but laugh outloud and the "why would you wash them 3 times?" comment! Yeah....if only our customers would just buy the shirts and hang them in the closet and never wear or, god forbid, wash them my life would be so much easier! Anyways...thanks again for the info.

 

Reply With Quote

Rodney

Quote: First of all, I am new to this particular forum, but I don't think I have ever seen such shameless SPAMMING by a company. Astroturfing, whatever, the guys from EPac such as Cbbbbbbb are using this forum as advertising, and frankly, bending technical info (and perhaps the truth) to promote.

I've been watching this thread very carefully and I haven't seen any spamming by Pacific Sports

It's very clear that chbbbbbb works for Pacific Sports. I don't think they are hiding that at all.

This thread is about their products and they are answering questions that others in this thread have asked about their products. It's nice to get answers straight from the source instead of guessing.

This thread wasn't started by anybody at Pacific Sports, but after a few pages, they saw the thread and responded to the comments and questions that were posted.

They didn't ask anybody to buy their products or try them out in this thread. They only answered and responded to the questions that were asked. To me that's not spamming, that's just helpful.

It's obvious that you do not like their products and that you feel they shrink too much. I'm sure others may agree with you, but when I tested the products, they were just fine. The one that was most notable for me was the PM30ESW. That's probably the only style I would use from their line.

Quote: I am sure that "members" will offer their opinions and rebuttals here. As always, the internet offers info, and we all can use it as we feel is best.

That's what the forum is for You have a chance to share your feedback and experiences and others can share theirs.

I appreciate you taking the time to do wash tests and report them back here.

I have no reason to believe that your tests weren't accurate.

It's not uncommon for people to have completely different opinions and preferences about the same product. Not everyone will share the same negative experience.

That's what's great about this forum (and the internet). If you don't like one product, it's easy to find other sources and vendors and try them out until you find one that you do like.

__________________
Rodney Blackwell - T-Shirt Links Directory - T-Shirt Countdown

 

Reply With Quote

swissarmour

dude seriously u need to read up a bit before saying something like that, without trying to offend.. but well its hard not to come off like it, that sounded pretty stupid the threads about 7 pages long with different members me being one of the noisiest here, u can check my posts see if im from epac, and i dont appreciate u coming in here saying im spamming nor anyone else here, were all in the industry somehow be it sellers or buyers alot of people here work for companies just check out my friend richard graves he works for ulano most of us appreciate the industry scoop, heads up or simply the insight their experience brings thats very rude

epac is an excellent company theyre trying to compete with the highest end products at what.. gildan prices? aa goes for atleast double what these guys charge seriously what where u expecting its an alternative simply put...

after recieving mine the best way to put them is probably a little behind aa and the only reason being is because they dont have a XS size or womens slim and some like their softspun line isnt yet slim fit but knowing this i think theyre an awesome option its certainly a step up from what ud be getting for that price...

put it this way i ordered samples some they didnt have in CA so they shipped them from NC UPs free of charge and since their shipping payment is a little weird (they email it) they shipped and waited a whole week for me to pay the 5 dollar shipping, i thought the shirts where a little big having nothing smaller than s, but ive noticed they did shrink im actually happy since most of my stuff is small med or juniors

i especially liked their v neck and 30pm wouldnt recommend their softspun for now tho they were changing it from regular to slim.. i promised photos right now im out to the club its friday.. i will say this tho, for comparison purposes after about 4 washes their size is about a jerzees s width wise and a little longer ill measure it later originally they are 28 so 5% is 1.5 inches max shrinkage lets say 2 inches..

in no way r u showing midriff with that i dont think theyre an all out replacement.. i do think tho the bashing is very biased somewhat suspicious against them.. all new shirts shrink duhh? in no way is a 28 in, shirt a bellyshirt thats just plain stupid talk i actually found then a little baggy at first

 

Reply With Quote

Brtp4

Motowear,

Thank you for your comments. I went on here also looking for info to help me choose a blank, ironically as an alternative to AA. This was based on what I read here but after some follow up it seems I will use AA.

Rodney,

Thank you for your comments also. Please understand that I am not trying to disparage this forum, not at all. I feel these forums are a powerful tool to gather info, and I wanted to post mine. Sometimes in the past, I have viewed posts like my own with cynicism, and suspected that someone had an axe to grind. Funny now that I am in that position.

BP

 

Reply With Quote